What is wrong with the new Warzone rewards? What can be done to fix the problem?

[BigRedJedi]

I recommend pointing people to this thread, and voice your concerns there, perhaps we can point them to the discussion here?

 

-BRJ

[EchoTwoOmega]

Nice post.

 

Not sure if someone mentioned it but the MAX you can get for a loss is 40 comms.

 

its 5 comms per medal, 8 medals max that count.

[wtfnonamefree]

Again - I couldn't care less about gear. If everyone had the same stats, I'd be totally cool with it.

 

Actually, Bloodline Champions went that road and used it as the game's unique selling point - 3v3 Arena PvP without the grind, jump in and be on equal footing as a veteran. All comes down to skill. Well, the hardcores love it, but the game lacks a healthy community, because the casuals hate it.

 

They are not in it for the sake of competition, they want to chill and get a sense of achievement, not by practicing and becoming better (hard way), but by getting better numbers/gear (easy way). The population steadily declined until the Developers changed their mind on the most fundamental aspect of the game and introduced Char progression into the game.

 

We all have our very own picture on how the game should be, tailored to our personal taste. What the Devs have to do is find some kind of middle ground, aiming for the highest percentage of approval in the gaming community.

 

So, even if I think that the current situation is more appropriate than pre 1.2, I understand that not everyone likes the way it is. And nobody wants the game to lose appeal to the masses.

 

If changing the rewards system is necessary to that end, by all means do it. But the question is how do you combine the following conditions?:

 

- Keep the carrot chasers occupied

- Have everyone on equal footing

- Make winning/losing matter

 

The last one is the problem imo. As I pointed out above, you get 100 comms for a win and 40 comms per lose. If you fail to achieve the 40 comms, it is due to either a very lopsided game or a pebkac situation.

 

The lopsided games aren't as frequent as they are claimed here - the complainees who brag about afking in 'lost games' are part of the problem - if everyone just stops trying at the first indication of a loss, expect to get steamrolled. You cannot change the minds of your fellow players, but if you participate in such behavior yourself, you create the problem yourself.

 

So, if you get 40% of the rewards when losing - how much should it be instead in your opinion? Where is the magic number, that is acceptable for you without making winning/losing undiscernible?

 

tldr - Imho the current reward system is better than before; If the majority of players don't like it - change it; But how much exactly do you expect for a loss? Magic number must be somewhere between 40% (now) and 100% (win equals lose).

Edited April 16, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Krashnburn]

Nicely done!

 

Almost every WZ is now determined in the first few mins. If it looks like a loss players leave fast making sure it is a loss at that point.

 

Which makes others give up as well. Then new players pop in, see the situation and they leave as well. I have seen the complete group turn over several times.

 

I have also been the guy spawning into a lost WZ with no chance of even getting my 4 medals and thought about leaving myself. I haven't done that so far, but probably will if it continues this way.

 

These changes intended to encourage and reward participation have had the opposite effect.

 

This plus the over done CC is going to kill PvP in this game IMHO.

[Necodreus]

First issue I think needs to be addressed is games being started lopsided, and people being added late. There needs to be an automatic shut down if a not enough people on one side in the first place, or fix it so it can't happen at all via a previous posters idea of 1 person gets added per side only at a time. If some drops then someone can be added up to a set time/score/hp limit.

 

Ex.. Ald if under 150 ship hp no new people can be added, same with a hutball match if under 3 min or score at 4, voidstar if opposing team won under 2 min, or less than 2 min remain. (both huttball n voidstar have 2 reasons why people can't join late as that stupid door can hold you locked down long enough for you to not get any medals.

 

If that was to hard to do add in a new bracket of medals for starting a game late. Up to 3 if game is about to be won.

 

Ex.. hutball is at 5 min left you get 2 medals for game being more than half over, Ald get 1 medal if coming in at a 400 to 300 game, voidstar, get in as other team is in last section recieve 3 medals as they could win any second and you don't have time to do anything but stare at a door.

 

This would help and keep the medal count minimum at 3.

 

Next would be your magic number... I think if your team wins flat 80 comms, valor (cant remeber a good average), creds 3000 (too much/little?) Then depending on amount you win by, medal count etc.. can go to a max of bonus up to 125 comma max, valor (need a good average #) max, 5000 max.

 

Losing would net you a flat 50 comms, some valor, 2000 creds, with your medals able to bump this up to 90 valor, some valor, 3500 creds. This allows high performing people on the losing to get more than underperforming people on the winning team. It gives you a minimum value to keep people that always lose still progressing and keeps people trying. Never should a match award nothing for participants.

 

(numbers subject to change but there for rough ideas)

 

Ghrunn Felshard

Order of Methedras

Corellians Run

[Celebrus]

There is a simple solution to all of these problems: Win more.

 

Seriously. Last patch it was "There is no incentive to win because losing grants the same rewards."

 

This patch. "I never win because I give up and leave because a losing warzone doesn't give me enough rewards."

 

Get over it and start winning.

 

In my experience the mythical leaver epidemic is just that....a myth.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Celebrus

[Redderic]

nothing should be done it is now a great system that encourages people to not suck in pvp and to try their hardest to win for the about 50% increased rewards.

I personally love that thos that lose dont get rewarded for trying that is not how the world works and should not be how the game works either.

 

I am really hoping that it encourages all of the really low level players to stop queing finally.

[LanceCorporalDan]

i strongly support this thread. i agree that losers sholdn't be punished so harshly, that just makes me want to quit if i come into a loosing game. i liked the pre-1.2 rewards better.

[Igaduma]

and keep the medal count minimum at 3.

 

I disagree, as I explained in a previous post, it encourages bad/mediocre players to cheat.

If I participate in a game I get 2 medals most of the time and thus no rewards.

On the other hand, if I don't participate and go for easy defender medals, I can get 3 medals. Ofcourse, that takes away what little help I was for my team.

[Igaduma]

I personally love that thos that lose dont get rewarded for trying that is not how the world works and should not be how the game works either.

 

I am really hoping that it encourages all of the really low level players to stop queing finally.

 

Actually that's not how the world works. Perhaps if you live in the third world it works like that, but here you have social security.

 

Even if it was how the world works, this isn't the world, this is a game.

 

Secondly the best do not get the best rewards in the real world. If you believe they do, you're naïve beyond imagination. Those who use the best the best get the best rewards. But that's a totally different discussion.

 

As for the bad players not queing being a good thing...

Then they will never learn, and thus never get better. Everyone eventually leaves, if they are not replaced, well, ...

 

Also, why should a game only be fun for the best of the best?

[macnernie]

nothing should be done it is now a great system that encourages people to not suck in pvp and to try their hardest to win for the about 50% increased rewards.

I personally love that thos that lose dont get rewarded for trying that is not how the world works and should not be how the game works either.

 

I am really hoping that it encourages all of the really low level players to stop queing finally.

 

Have fun playing with yourself. (Literally and figuratively)

[KBSIP]

I like this thread, but it is far from comprehensive. The unbalanced team sizes issue in warzones is very serious, especially on low pop servers where you can't quit and re q because you'll end up in the same zone.

[OdonKnight]

nothing should be done it is now a great system that encourages people to not suck in pvp and to try their hardest to win for the about 50% increased rewards.

I personally love that thos that lose dont get rewarded for trying that is not how the world works and should not be how the game works either.

 

I am really hoping that it encourages all of the really low level players to stop queing finally.

 

Good grief. The paying player is akin to a fan attending a sporting event mixed with being one of the competitors.

 

With the current set-up you are not only having the competition rigged (different rules per match where in sports there are rules governing number of players, etc) but you are making the results of the match as a whole affect the rewards the player/spectator get.

 

Madness.

 

Eventually any player/spectator will get tired of constant changing, (8 v 6, etc) esp if the are Repub and on the numerically inferior side, and generally throw their hands up.

 

The current system is like basing a players pay not upon overall how they're doing but in the acts of a single match but also in a match where they have NO CHANCE to win (say 5 v 8 voidstar). I do not care if its the star wars pvp'er's version of a Pele/Ronaldo/etc..etc.. The participants will eventually tire of having their success unfairly influenced by randomness and rule changes match per match.

[Bishidoblade]

They are obviously going to fix the issue with the badges VS rewards, that's a given. The cumulative complaints from the casuals will be more then enough to sway them away from their current setup, and go with one more "casual" friendly.

 

That being said its not terribly difficult to get 4 badges for any class/spec. Its pretty pathetic if you are in a match for the whole go, and don't come away with at least that. Maybe people don't know all the different ways to get badges, I really don't know.

 

I agree that joining half way through and getting boned because their system does not penalize people who nerd-rage quit, or see a team and say screw it and leave. Sometimes it takes just one person to screw over the other 7.

 

I think pre 1.2 system had some good points, and some bad. I think overall it was far more enjoyable for the masses then the current, more hardcore oriented pvp situation.

 

People complaining about people running around in full WH gear are just full of crap. While they can buy the augmented player made stuff, they can only throw BM pieces into it, so the only real boost would be from having all augmented pieces which equates to maybe what a stim gives stat wise. Its nice no doubt but its not the reason your getting rolled. I can see some having a few pieces but don't over exaggerate things.

 

Yes the current system has issues, and they will obviously get fixed... i just hope when they do they don't break things further - the track record isn't exactly good.

[Crepidus]

Totally agree with this post. I hope someone from BW reads this and gets a clue.

[MasterUltrunus]

Some excellent points made. I personally believe server merges would be beneficial, especially to the PvP game. More people means more matches, less queue times. Means you can actually find groups for Flashpoints and Operations. Right now I believe there are 5 servers at most that you can find a full group for a flashpoint without having to look for like 30 minutes or more. Warzone queues can last long enough that you can even forget you are in a queue if you don't see the little icon. I am not a supporter of cross-server Warzones because that ruins community. It's a lot harder to get a recognition if the people you are fighting aren't even on your server. Increased server population, achieved by merging servers and not really needing more subscribers, would solve problems of group content(particularly that of the end-game).

[Xygoz]

Perfectly written i hope the decision makers read this.

 

I have stopped logging in, and tell you the truth when i say i miss TOR pvp, yet dont want to continue, seeing the huge gap that awaits me to just obtain 1 piece of WH gear...

[Alericus]

The real problem with the current state of Warzones post 1.2 is its only 1/2 of a system that Bioware originally intended to role out ie. Ranked Warzones. This is why currently everything is so borked. Having said that the upcoming changes they are bringing in for rewards is a good idea. Im not so sure if it will change for some players however, Ive gone from matches where I got 12 medals to the next one where I couldnt get 1. It swings so wildly and this is primarily due to the premades who would I suspect much rather do ranked warzones. Gear and premades create the perfect storm now and until they start getting the premades fighting each other, Im sorry but pugs, solo players and fresh 50's are screwed. This is the new reality of pvp for better or worse and I have no idea when Bioware plans to role out ranked warzones, but from the comments and statements Ive heard and read...they better get moving before we start shrinking in pop again.

[Zag_Stratos]

Good Stuff OP, I don't think I could have said it better.

 

Right now, it's not worth staying in a match if you're losing.

 

 

On my server it take between 0 to 5 minutes to get a match up. It is much easier for me to leaving losing battles and re-queue to get a winning one. I don't want to do that and I won't but it is very tempting.

[Pathlight-]

/signed.

 

Should be stickied.

[EmperorDarkstar]

I really hope they give us better rewards even if we lose cuz right now it sucks and most of my teammates just give up. Also merging servers where Republic wins a lot with servers where Imps win a lot would be nice

[Tipkaee]

I read the whole thing i i agree on 95%. The 5% i don't agree upon is the 10/20 comms for getting 13/18 medals. As a healer it is actually bad for my team if i strive for 18 medals. Capping the medals at 8 so people don't continue to farm medals is a good thing in my eyes. Placing high medal count rewards just incentives dumb number padding like having solo death matches out in the field.

 

Quality post overall.

[arkzehhh]

/signed

 

pvp is getting old... for alot of these reasons.

[Malstrades]

/signed, really no reason to put effort into PVP rght now

[Thangunis]

signed