On Warzone Scoring and Rewards

[Stalkobot]

As always, we appreciate your comments and want to hear from you.

 

hahahahaha

[Twor]

You are basically forcing a reward system that would be good for 8v8 groups in Rated Warzones on pugs of regular warzones.

 

In a rated you would pick your own team. You can talk about why something went wrong and how to fix it. It is generally a complete team effort.

 

In a regular warzone, you don't get to pick your team even if you have a 4 person group. Being rewarded based on their success or lack thereof is a terrible idea for a system that groups 8 random people together.

 

This post, quoted again so it gets empazied. You can not punish people for teamplay if they have no influence on the team composition at all.

Completely teambased rewards are fine if you have actual teams going against each other. If you have four people with 11k ho who are keyboard turning and clicking everything you should not be punished for having them in your team- because that results in people quitting before the game has even started.

 

Even a 4man pre has to rely on good fortune with the people who fill the last 4 spots (hb being excluded sometimes).

Even the best 4 man pre can not hold Voidstar or win civil war if the other 4 people are running around collecting grass/playing hide and seek and the opponent has 8 good random players.

[MajinUltima]

1. There needs to be a deserter debuff on people quitting WZ's It needs to be long, like 15 minutes + new reque time. Currently what is happening alot on my server is as soon as one team is losing

That will do NOTHING. People will alt-hop, or quit and go quest or space missions. You'd only be punishing players who don't have many characters, or people just trying to do their daily. Being stubborn does not turn around 95% of losses, so all you're doing is punishing people with no gain... and not even punishing the people who quit frequently.

2. Matches need to end when outnumbered like they did previously to patch 1.2.

The queue system needs to not even ATTEMPT to being a match until both sides have at least 7 people, especially in same faction matches. There is no excuse whatsoever for an 8v4 Empire vs Empire on Novare Coast. It's the same faction, the same player pool.

 

The queue system should fill the pool with 14-16 people FIRST, then divide ungrouped people based on level. 8v4s suck, but so does random queues where 7 of your team members aren't even level 20. Bolster helps, but Bolster does not make up for lack of talent interactions or talent tree abilities.

 

~~~~~

Pay attention to your game. Spend a few days of doing warzones day in and day out, and then come up with an equitable system to support your dream of how warzones should go.

More or less, this. If Fatman Empire side is anything like how it was before I left that horrible mess, make a Juggernaut, and go PVP there for a few days. See how much you feel like staying with a 95% loss rate in Voidstar, 80% loss rate in Civil War, and 65% loss rate in Huttball. See how much fun you have when you need to lose 30 games (8 hours of gametime) to get enough commendations to buy ONE battlemaster legpiece or weapon.

 

This Dev, and many players, are WAY too naive if they think this reward change will do anything but cause people to leave faster and more often.

[Siiggi]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Erm.....Where are the PVP devs? With all due respect I don't want to see what a RP/PVE dev has to say about PVP. I would like Gabe to come here and tell us what he's doing and why.

[Alox]

I need some more solid information on how I can maximise my gain on a loosing team. How is 1 medal per player going to affect me? I can easily get 6-8 medals even when loosing so that change has no direct impact for me, or does it?

 

I refuse to log in a play with the current rule set.

[Polebreaker]

Oh and here's just an idea that might help to even out teams a bit until you can figure out x-server wz's... Just fill in the short handed team with players from the other faction. Why not? 3/4 of the wz's are "simulations" anyway. It'd even things up a bit and might even make for a fun match instead of the stupidity of a game starting 8v4.

[islander]

Erm.....Where are the PVP devs? With all due respect I don't want to see what a RP/PVE dev has to say about PVP. I would like Gabe to come here and tell us what he's doing and why.

 

I dunno, pretty much everything Gabe's touched with PvP has turned to poop.

 

Maybe folks should share a bit less vitriol towards ANY combat dev who's willing to communicate with his player base.

 

Seriously folks, being a douchebag is not authorized with your measley 15 dollars a month. I'm glad any of the primary/lead devs engages in any communication with us at all.

[MorgothQuick]

Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.

 

I hope this means you are boosting comms, valor, XP, *and* credits for losing, as currently you can earn 0 credits even with 4+ medals. Its happened to me, yet have gotten comms, XP and valor

[Lord_Karsk]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

 

That means alot. TY very much !

[Kognos]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Here's an idea, figure out how to make PTS work as an actual test server instead of throwing your **** on live for testing. All of these issues were on the PTS forums well before this patch went live but nothing was done probably because of the sample size or just pure laziness. So sick of your paid beta model, having a PTS that doesn't contribute anything is the same as not having a PTS at all.

[Sweeet]

OK my thoughts on PvP post 1.2

 

1) Rewards for losing are far too low for people who are unfortunate to be playing with bad/under-geared players who thus end up losing through no real fault of their own. Also sometimes even though you lose, you may still have outplayed the other team - WZ rewards should be reflected in the amount of medal's you received with a slight bonus to winning, like it used to, not a flat out 50% less because you lost. That was a terrible idea that only serves to penalise the types of players mentioned above. Also the credits need a boost for those who only like to PvP, I see absolutely no valid reason for needing to cut them like you have.

 

2) WZ Medpacks/Stims are far too expensive and can create quite a big deficit if you are on a losing streak. Prices need to be dropped significantly or you are again making people feel like they need to spec Biochem to stay competitive - which is exactly what you said you didn't want after the last fiasco.

 

And I'm quite surprised there has been no official word on this one yet;

 

3) Burst is getting WAY out of control. The time-to-kill has dropped significantly which only exuberates the issue mentioned in point 1. As the time-to-kill has dropped significantly, so has the window for any kind of tactical gameplay. Since the games release people have been mostly praising PvP because it felt balanced overall - this was because the TTK was high enough that it allowed for a real element of tactical gameplay. Even if you were out-geared you still stood a chance if the other player made a mistake. Now, you just hit all your big moves and pray your opponent dies before you do, all in the space of around 15 seconds. Much much less if there are 2-3 DPS focusing someone, I regularly go from 100-0 in the space of a 4 second stun when focused by a competent pre-made, and there is not a thing I can do about it.

 

What do all these points lead to? A game in which PVP is no longer FUN. That's right Bioware, you have actually managed to take the FUN out of PvP for a significant portion of PvPers. I would have thought FUN would be the deciding factor for any major change made to the game. Are you seriously telling me someone getting paid as much as you lacked the foresight to see what these types of changes would actually do? I'm really beginning to lose faith in you Bioware, I for one now refuse to do any kind of PvP on my 50, it's just not fun for me any more, and neither for 90% of the people I speak to in-game. Some put up with it however because they have no other way of grinding their gear, but I can tell you now most people are not enjoying it like they used to - even a brief glimps of the forums will tell you that much.

 

SWTOR PvP has lost it's mojo and if it isn't back by the time my free 30 days is up, I for one will not be re-subscribing to your game - I will be playing GW2 instead and enjoying the extra 3 pints of beer I can drink each month.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Sweeet

[Lord_Karsk]

Erm.....Where are the PVP devs? With all due respect I don't want to see what a RP/PVE dev has to say about PVP. I would like Gabe to come here and tell us what he's doing and why.

 

Why dont you show some respect ! As i understand he is in charge of

cant remember the title he has now and i would much rather hear from him

then anyone else at bioware.

[Chockalot]

We are at WAR here!!!! Not the welfare office.

 

 

true, so you make their point. In war, you do not fight overwhelming force since you will lose. In battle it is better to quit and fight another day than to die and be dead.

[Magnesium]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

 

Thanks for that update and it is positive and welcomed.

[MaubeeEiko]

Why dont you show some respect ! As i understand he is in charge of

cant remember the title he has now and i would much rather hear from him

then anyone else at bioware.

 

Respect is Earned...not bestowed.

[Lord_Karsk]

It is not just the commendation but extreme nerf to cash that hurts the most. Please don't force us PVP players to grind PVE dailies. Options are good for the game.

 

Pre 1.2 i wasn't swimming in cash but i used to get by just doing PVP. PVE players on other hand got coreilla dailies added to belsavis and ilum and we PVP players got nerf to credits..how is that even fair?

 

Even if i start getting cash rewards like i used to before 1.2 i can tolerate reduction in commendations, but getting zero cash in a losing match where i manage to get 3 medals despite of being rolled over is just very dis heartening. As of now it seems that credits awarded at end of match are not attached to medals at all.

 

And this pretty much !

[PhilCanuck]

First question, why is his post dated from 3 days ago and only showing up now on the forum?

...because people complained (justifiably) that there was no dev response last week. Now, *magic poof*, there was!

[HelinCarnate]

I like how Voidstar now ends early once you get past the point that the other team did. However, I have seen a (major) drop in rewards if that point is the first door and it's achieved relatively early.

 

In fact, I believe rewards have been nerfed too much, especially with the increased price of WZ adrenals / med packs. Why not (like War Hero Gear) allow Biochem professionals the ability to craft WZ adrenals / med packs?

 

This is because the winning team does not get a bonus if the score on the final game is close, only the losing team. So that 0-1 match that you blew them away and got through the door very fast after holding them to 0? Well that was pretty close since you only won the game by 1 point.

[DroidDreamer]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Thank you for listening. Thank you for taking quick action.

[Krashnburn]

Almost every WZ is now determined in the first few minuets. If it looks like a loss players leave fast making sure it is a loss at that point.

 

Which makes others give up as well. Then new players pop in, see the situation and they leave as well. I have seen the complete group turn over several times.

 

I have also been the guy spawning into a lost WZ with no chance of even getting my medals and thought about leaving myself. I haven't done that so far, but probably will if it continues this way.

 

These changes intended to encourage and reward participation have had the opposite effect.

 

This plus the over done CC is going to kill PvP in this game IMHO.

 

*edit*

 

I posted before seeing this;

 

"Originally Posted by DanielErickson

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled"--------etc

That might help. But until you penalize players for leaving early you will still have this problem IMO.

 

And I mean more then a few minuets of not being able to que.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Krashnburn

[Stalkobot]

Its funny when he goes on about team given how the majority of the game is geared for next to no people, 4 man teams and companion pets. the game doesnt encourage "team" play why should PvP be a premade or pain?

 

This is fundamental for you to realise, this is a game not a job, you can get away with a certain amount of carrot to offset fun but when theres no fun and no carrot people wont play

Edited April 16, 2012 by Stalkobot

[DralenBrand]

well put Dralen.. the reason <50 pvp is more fun? 0 consideration for gear. give level 50s a bolster buff and award vanity items for valor ranks.

 

anyone that disagrees with this is playing for gear, not competition.

 

 

 

oh and implement server transfers ASAP.

 

 

Thanks buddy. And I also agree with you re server transfers. Then again, what sane person doesn't? Anyone? Who here is AGAINST them?

 

I am by all rights a BW fanboy. I play most of their games, but these sorts of "duh" moments are killing me. DE's post implies that further investigation is needed. I appreciate the "look before you leap" philosophy, but this is a bit excessive. Also, I hate boilerplate responses, platitudes, and being patronized. Don't mistake me, either, all the devs seems like nice, wello-meaning guys.

 

I certainly don't want to get personal or antagonistic, but sooo much fail here and yet we are monitoring still. I feel like they're getting personal and antagonistic (or at least demeaning) with us (the player community) sometimes in saying they will monitor a situation soooo many of us have reported. Fix: don't monitor. Monitor before you release.

 

Some matters do not require further investigation. Seriously, play a republic toon in WZ's during prime time on my server - Saber of Exar Kun. Investigation over.

 

Also, wouldn't the proper time for this watching and observing be BEFORE the patch goes live? I wish they had pushed 1.2 back and tested it more. Did no one in the PTS mention this?

[HelinCarnate]

Why am I punished if I can defend a node or cap a node over and over again, but my team is too stupid to do anything but Zerg something?

 

Last night I was in the new Warzone on an alt. We won 100% to 0%. We got 100 commendations. I don't know how many the other team got, but I bet it wasn't a lot.

 

You shouldn't reward a single player based on the teams success or failure. You as a developer are getting paid less because someone you work with sucks at their job. Why should I get less reward now because I randomly get put in a queue with 7 people who may not be good, or undergeared, or whatever.

 

The system is flawed.

 

If all you do for the entire game is defend a node, you will still get commendations even with a loss. It is quite easy to get at least 3 medals this way now.

[ArcanusofMemphis]

I think that these announcements herald some positive changes. However, these are baby steps in the right direction. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the enormous increase in dps and decrease in time-to-kill. I loved the time I had to think about fights rather than simply smash buttons like a child. This is the first mmo (of many) in which I pvped because of that - and I pvped daily in swtor. Please consider addressing this issue as many others on these forums have suggested.

 

I unsubbed on Saturday because of the changes. If and when these issues are ironed out, I will gladly resub.

[Sweeet]

First question, why is his post dated from 3 days ago and only showing up now on the forum?

 

Haha, I didn't see that. I guess it means they've been aware of our discontent since Saturday! At least it means they're listening - whether they're taking any of it on-board however is another matter. I guess we'll find out by the time everyone's 30 free days is up.

 

It's quite clever actually, Bioware have basically given themselves an extra month to fix things before people start upping and leaving. It really does go to show that we might as well still beta testing eh.