On Warzone Scoring and Rewards

[clickonce]

Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

No... it's not.

 

You are taking a microscopic view of rewards... focusing only on a single match.

 

It is far better to leave (in the first few mins) a hopeless 15 minute match that will net 15 comms... and requeue for one where you might have a better shot at getting 100 comms.

 

The question is: do you spend 15 minutes getting 0-1 comms per minute.. or do you bail early and try to get into a match where you can get 6-7 comms per minute.

 

I think it's pretty clear which path most are taking.

 

That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that when you are on the 0-1 comms/min plan, the matches aren't very fun (due to the lack of a matching system).

 

So what to do about this?

 

Seems to me there are 3 solutions.

 

1. punish those that leave...

2. get a matching system (ranked warzones is one implementation of this, but it could apply to unranked as well).

3. increase rewards for losing such that it is not as efficient to gain comms by leaving

 

#1 will earn you a lot of unsubs given the lack of #2.

#2 is being worked on.. or so I hear (doesn't really make sense to roll this out without cross-server)

 

#3 is really your only option.

 

It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

[sharkfinsix]

well put Dralen.. the reason <50 pvp is more fun? 0 consideration for gear. give level 50s a bolster buff and award vanity items for valor ranks.

 

anyone that disagrees with this is playing for gear, not competition.

 

 

 

oh and implement server transfers ASAP.

 

This is why I have been playing an army of alts lately in the 10-49 (my lvl 12 operative was a blast in that bracket on the weekend, even tho he is missing key skills.) and not the 50 bracket. I play for fun not the gear, once the gear disparity takes the fun out of it I usually give up, roll an alt or go to a new game.

[Siiggi]

Why dont you show some respect ! As i understand he is in charge of

cant remember the title he has now and i would much rather hear from him

then anyone else at bioware.

 

Alright, let me clarify here. I don't care about the title. I don't care if the Game Director comes here, the lead combat designer or what ever fancy title you give them. Fact is Gabe is incharge of the PVP team. I asked for him or another member of the PVP team to let us know the purpose of the changes and what changes they are making. I don't see how that is being disrespectfull.

[Oshimo]

If there are only 3 pubs queued, allow only 3 imps in ... if the only 3 pubs queued on the entire server are IN A WZ, then create 10 v 10 all imp games ... but even with these 2v2 4v4 6v6 8v8 etc so that there is never an 8 v 5 etc ... and when you stick with a game that's had abandonment the entire poker kitty should fall to the last remaining player ... like 400 commendations ... if there is only going to be 1 pub vs the entire imperial army he might as well be a 100 valor max geared dude.

[islander]

Almost every WZ is now determined in the first few minuets. If it looks like a loss players leave fast making sure it is a loss at that point.

 

Not true. I was in a voidstar 2 days ago. We got facerolled through the first 2 doors on defense to start. A couple of us were , you know, "wake the eff up etc etc". Well no one quit. We actually held off the republic from the final door. Full 7 minutes.

 

We absolutely smoked them (from a body count standpoint) on the back half. Couldn't finish the job but also got through two doors. Got the RNG win for the tie.

 

People need to only quit when it's desperate and beyond the point of no return.

Example: You actually get rolled and lose all 3 doors in like 3 minutes or so. yeah, too much bad, may as well eject then.

[karsusk]

"Haha, I didn't see that. I guess it means they've been aware of our discontent since Saturday! At least it means they're listening - whether they're taking any of it on-board however is another matter. I guess we'll find out by the time everyone's 30 free days is up.

 

It's quite clever actually, Bioware have basically given themselves an extra month to fix things before people start upping and leaving. It really does go to show that we might as well still beta testing eh. "

 

 

Actually it isn't clever at all, it shows a desperation that warrants us all to be concerned. Honestly I don't know what they can do at this point, but an apology would go a long way for their pvp community. To give us a patch that made PVP unplayable and make the entire game a bigger credit sink, I have to wonder what they are doing. I will personally get my free month, but am unsubbing on the 24th. I am seeking a game that cares about its PVP player base and has PVP as a valid play style choice.

[Qoojo]

I am glad to see this change. In one WZ, I actually had problems earning even a single medal. Every time I would show my face, I would just about instantly die as the other team focused on me. I wasn't even a healer, and could hard use one damaging attack before I was dead, and I wasn't single rushing either. Never experienced a butt kicking quite that bad before in swtor

[Cataphractone]

If all you do for the entire game is defend a node, you will still get commendations even with a loss. It is quite easy to get at least 3 medals this way now.

 

Getting 3 medals is easy.

 

I want more than commendations when the rest of my team is horrible.

[mSum]

....

[*]We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

....]

 

Oh god, even longer queue times? I know, I know, you can't please everyone right? Or wait a minute maybe you can....CROSS-SERVER PVP!?!?!!

[PhilCanuck]

Oh god, even longer queue times? I know, I know, you can't please everyone right? Or wait a minute maybe you can....CROSS-SERVER PVP!?!?!!

I'd rather have a longer queue than have a constant stream of unwinable matches.

[DralenBrand]

No... it's not.

 

You are taking a microscopic view of rewards... focusing only on a single match.

 

It is far better to leave (in the first few mins) a hopeless 15 minute match that will net 15 comms... and requeue for one where you might have a better shot at getting 100 comms.

 

The question is: do you spend 15 minutes getting 0-1 comms per minute.. or do you bail early and try to get into a match where you can get 6-7 comms per minute.

 

I think it's pretty clear which path most are taking.

 

That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that when you are on the 0-1 comms/min plan, the matches aren't very fun (due to the lack of a matching system).

 

So what to do about this?

 

Seems to me there are 3 solutions.

 

1. punish those that leave...

2. get a matching system (ranked warzones is one implementation of this, but it could apply to unranked as well).

3. increase rewards for losing such that it is not as efficient to gain comms by leaving

 

#1 will earn you a lot of unsubs given the lack of #2.

#2 is being worked on.. or so I hear (doesn't really make sense to roll this out without cross-server)

 

#3 is really your only option.

 

It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

 

 

That's because you are right - it's not that complicated. Not every problem with this game needs to be observed and analyzed for a series of months before the problem can be identified and fixed. You outlined the options perfectly, and additional "monitoring" is not going to change them. The solution you recommend is, as you stated, the only option immediately available to effect a cure for the problem described.

 

To those asking Gabe to come and answer instead of DE - I sure hope that Gabe is busy working on this. Besides, DE speaks for BW. Though I didn't really agree what I read in his post, I so appreciate the effort he made in communicating with us about what is going on. Holy cow throw them a bone. You can disagree without picking up pitchforks. Our BEST hope for a fix to be incoming soon is that Gabe is hard at work right now - too much so to post here.

 

 

 

 

[Varicite]

No... it's not.

 

You are taking a microscopic view of rewards... focusing only on a single match.

 

It is far better to leave (in the first few mins) a hopeless 15 minute match that will net 15 comms... and requeue for one where you might have a better shot at getting 100 comms.

 

The question is: do you spend 15 minutes getting 0-1 comms per minute.. or do you bail early and try to get into a match where you can get 6-7 comms per minute.

 

I think it's pretty clear which path most are taking.

 

That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that when you are on the 0-1 comms/min plan, the matches aren't very fun (due to the lack of a matching system).

 

So what to do about this?

 

Seems to me there are 3 solutions.

 

1. punish those that leave...

2. get a matching system (ranked warzones is one implementation of this, but it could apply to unranked as well).

3. increase rewards for losing such that it is not as efficient to gain comms by leaving

 

#1 will earn you a lot of unsubs given the lack of #2.

#2 is being worked on.. or so I hear (doesn't really make sense to roll this out without cross-server)

 

#3 is really your only option.

 

It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

 

My queues take 10-15 mins, generally.

 

I don't see the benefit of being bored for 10-15 mins and then getting another match, as opposed to maybe getting some comms while running around for 10-15 mins and then getting another match.

 

Then again, I only really PvP, so I wouldn't be having much fun standing around waiting for the queue to pop again.

[Coldin]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

That's good. I hope by the completion of warzone rewards also refers to commendations, and not just xp, credits, valor.

[HelinCarnate]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

A few questions.

 

1) Will there be credit rewards adjusted for the losing team as well? Currently losses give you 0 credits. I am not asking for similar rewards for wining, mabye 1/3 of what it would be if it was a win instead. Currently leveling using mainly pvp is extreemly hard on the pocketbook. For the first time, I was not able to afford my skills for the next level.

 

2) Will it be the 120 second timer that was on live or the 30 second timer that was on test for most of the 1.2 testing?

 

3) You may be able to reduce them, but there will still be warzones that start with 5 or less vs 8. When those end early, will the winning team get a huge bonus for quick victory?

 

4) And with those that end early, will the losing team get 1 medal so they do not get shafted on the rewards at the end of the game? If not, people will see the timer and bail if they see that their team is the one that has less than 6.

 

Edit, 5) Currently when you win a voidstar match, many of the games are a 1 point victory. This is because one team only gets, say 1 point and the game stops when the 2nd team gets 2 points and there is no way for them to win by a larger margin. Because of this, those teams are not getting any kind of bonus for winning by a large margin. What is being done to address this?

Edited April 16, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[zerosaint]

What I would really like to ask is that Daniel, could you take a fresh 50 in Recruit Gear and go on one of the Standard/Low Pop servers for a day and do nothing but PVP?

 

I think that would tell you beyond question what needs to be fixed.

[Ashuraman]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Wait wait wait!!!! Liver servers are Beta? No wonder Bioware is giving people a free month!!!

[jolleebindu]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Thank you!

[Ssfbistimg]

Hey folks,

 

There's been a lot of discussion about the changes to the Warzone rewards system in Game Update 1.2 and the type of play style that it encourages. I wanted to help out a bit and point out a major change not all players may have noticed and share some of our plans.

 

First of all, rest assured we are keeping a close watch on the results of our reward changes to Warzones in 1.2 and we will continue to pull constant metrics to make sure they are going in the right direction as players get used to the new rules.

 

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

Secondly, one of the things we have already identified to fix is to reduce the minimum amount of medals a player must receive to gain any reward at all. Currently that value is three (3), and we are going to reduce that to only needing one (1) medal to gain rewards. This should make sure we cover that all important backfill player while still protecting against the freeloaders.

 

As we move forward, we will continue to meet and discuss other possible changes based on the feedback here on the Forums as well as the data coming in from the live servers. As always, we appreciate your comments and want to hear from you.

 

your still a joke of a pvp team. not fixing the real problem. and thats the stupidly low TTK now. If i wanted to play COD I would have. you took all the skill out of pvp. Now all u have to do is have 4 people spam AOE in same spot and anyone close to the area is dead. Getiing insta gibbed because you fight at voidstar door isn't pvp

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ssfbistimg

[Lawrie]

Its nice to see you've responded to some of our feedback. Any response to the concerns relating to the outrageous reduction in Time to kill?

[mordredz]

Daniel,

 

If your polling of WZ results were accurate and reflective of real game PvP, you would not have gone forward with these changes. That is blindingly obvious.

 

The current system is causing a significant divergence between haves and have nots, and it gets worse with every game played. I tried to PvP all weekend and not once, not once, did our side (Republic) start the game with a full group (in games that I was present at start). There were numerous instances of the group getting full well after it was too late to do anything for a win.

 

So what does that mean? It means that the high population Imperial side continues to gain rewards at an alarmingly higher rate than the Republic. The gearing disparity gets bigger and they get stronger.

 

At least in 25% of the games I played, I got in during the final moments. Yes, you say you're going to address that, but you're not addressing the real issue. So what if my one medal allows me to get a token WZ Com, the Imps got the full amount and our side got squat in comparison...back to the real problem.

 

P.S.: If your data *is* accurate, then you need to explain to us why you think this current disparity (as expressed above) is considered by BW to be a good design.

 

You do realize that a majority of ppl cried and cried and well cried about wanting 1.2 right now right? here's your result in putting it out before it was ready, so deal with it or move on cause this was the cause of the players being impatient as always...

[Drudenfusz]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

Sounds good... but who knows how it will feel like, and better don't implement new bugs while doing this. I have to play it fist before I can finally say if it is then all better.

[zerosaint]

You do realize that a majority of ppl cried and cried and well cried about wanting 1.2 right now right? here's your result in putting it out before it was ready, so deal with it or move on cause this was the cause of the players being impatient as always...

 

Despite BW ignoring the overwhelming amount of criticism and suggestion on Test?

 

Seriously there were pages and pages telling BW what would happen.

[SerikFox]

My biggest issue with the new system is credit rewards. Everything in this game costs so much that you have to get a lot of money from pvp for it to be worth it - or you are forced to pve for the money. Make it so that you can get just as good from either pvp or pve - same relative amount of money for time etc. Don't force pvp'ers to pve and don't force pve'ers to pvp.

[PhilCanuck]

You do realize that a majority of ppl cried and cried and well cried about wanting 1.2 right now right? here's your result in putting it out before it was ready, so deal with it or move on cause this was the cause of the players being impatient as always...

I doubt it was a majority. It didn't even seem like a majority of forum goers, who are probably no more than 5% or so of the game population to begin with. I didn't ask Bioware to rush 1.2, I was happy to wait. I didn't like the changes, I complained. I'm happy they listened, I may re-sub.

[celldoom]

That is completly not true OP, EVERY-SINGLE-ONE of the matches that i've lose i get ZERO of everything, including a very close 0-80 Alderaan. Zero comms, zero exp, zero credits. As soon as i see it's a loss i leave the warzone because there is absolutely no point in continuing. I will play for losses once i acquire the gear, but at the moment, while im farming the gear, i won't waste any time on pointless losses.

 

Any game comes down to how many dumb players a team has, not the skill of those who have it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by celldoom