Astarica Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What the heck is 'boils down to cooldown' mean? Is there sometime you should say, "Self, I got Force Camo which is my trump card but I probably shouldn't use it'? Well yeah that happens if you're deemed as no threat, or maybe that Marauder just barely defeated an Assassin and had to pop all his cooldowns. But rest assured he's never going to choose to NOT use his cooldowns just for the heck of it. Stuff like Cloak of Pain, Obfuscate, Undying Rage, and Force Camo is pretty much used by a Marauder against anyone who seems like a threat. If your strategy to beat someone is hoping they wouldn't take you seriously, then your class is clearly not the top of the DPS food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, Thanks again for the input guys. Like i said, i don't have an issue staying in melee range and getting hits off. It's just it seems like i hit like a wet noodle on them, when my CD's are rolling im fine, but as soon as my Cloak the Pain drops it seems like they unload on me for very heavy hits and i just can't muster the DPS. I'll try obs. ive been using berserk for the healing/extra damage, but i'll def give that a try. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As far as pure DPS, they hurt like hell. NO ONE kills faster than a dps vanguard that gets lucky with rail shot reset procs You are confusing Vanguards with Troopers. Vanguards don't get rail shot they are a defense class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As far as pure DPS, they hurt like hell. NO ONE kills faster than a dps vanguard that gets lucky with rail shot reset procs You are confusing Vanguards with Troopers. Vanguards don't get rail shot they are a defense class. your badness is showing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshadow Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) How do you beat a Vanguard? Short answer: You don't. All you can do as a marauder is swing your sabers wildly. Not hard to deal with you at all. As a shield specialist vanguard with alittle tactics I have no problem fighting you at close range. In fact, I can do more damage at close range. There is nothing you can do but outgea me. Other than that I will always win 1vs1. One other strategy is to apply DOTs and LOS. Anyone tries to run I storm or harpoon them. Ranged classes hardly ever escape or stay far enough away to LOS me. A melee class might as well not even try. Marauders are good for helping kill healers, but not much else. Edited March 30, 2012 by Dayshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Before i elaborate more, please keep everything constructive and civil. I really don't want this to turn into an "so and so is OP and so and so needs a buff" thread where there is mindless arguments with no basis. That being said, i'm a Sith Warrior (Marauder) and i have a VERY difficult time killing Vanguards. My typical strategy for fighting them is to try to sneak up and immediately apply a movement slow and get my bleeds up. As soon as i get my bleeds rolling i use force choke to let the bleeds tick while hes choking. When the chock ends i'll chain defensive CD's. If get out of melee range / stunned i immediately use my free movement ability and lleap back in, trying to keep all my bleeds rolling at all times while constantly trying to get behind him to prevent channeled abilities. i interrupt everything i possibly can when i see it casting. I can almost never beat one of these guys. I'll only get em to 30-40% health in a Wazrzone before losing to him in most circumstances. I seem to do a very good job at staying in melee range and interupting them, but i just can't seem to bring one down. Any advice? I'm using medpacs ofc. From what you've described it is pretty obvious you werent fighting a vanguard, but a commando. The good news is that with practice, and timing your utilities properly, you can interrupt them enough times to completely make the fight easy for you. The bad news, if you are having such a hard time with Commandos, then you will have a much harder time with dps vanguards. You cant interrupter a Powertech/vanguard, because there is nothing to interrupt. It is a tough fight because you are a melee class, and a dps vanguard is a 10m range class with huge bursts. It's really a dps race. PTs/Vanguards dont really have much defensive cooldowns, you need to try to soak up their damage and time your immunity very well at the very end. You're hoping that by then they will be at high enough heat and thats when the table turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, it seems like they wail on me and get me down to like half health and then i start to make a come back but its too little too late in most circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 your badness is showing Ok smart guy. You show me where Vanguard gets a rail shot. I am a 50 Vanguard and I just checked my skill trees and nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fal- Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 With a bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafucin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Before i elaborate more, please keep everything constructive and civil. I really don't want this to turn into an "so and so is OP and so and so needs a buff" thread where there is mindless arguments with no basis. That being said, i'm a Sith Warrior (Marauder) and i have a VERY difficult time killing Vanguards. My typical strategy for fighting them is to try to sneak up and immediately apply a movement slow and get my bleeds up. As soon as i get my bleeds rolling i use force choke to let the bleeds tick while hes choking. When the chock ends i'll chain defensive CD's. If get out of melee range / stunned i immediately use my free movement ability and lleap back in, trying to keep all my bleeds rolling at all times while constantly trying to get behind him to prevent channeled abilities. i interrupt everything i possibly can when i see it casting. I can almost never beat one of these guys. I'll only get em to 30-40% health in a Wazrzone before losing to him in most circumstances. I seem to do a very good job at staying in melee range and interupting them, but i just can't seem to bring one down.Any advice? I'm using medpacs ofc. Vanguards are close combat class, if you didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Vanguards are close combat class, if you didn't know. Well yeah, but against a marauder you def keep your distance. they may be most effective in melee range, but low damage at a longer distance is def more then a marauder will do, better to be doing a little bit of damage and taking no damage then to be taking and dealing high damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 pve build and level 38. marauders dont mature until the late 40's meanwhile pts/vangaurds get most of their useful tools by the mid 30's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) From what you've described it is pretty obvious you werent fighting a vanguard, but a commando. The good news is that with practice, and timing your utilities properly, you can interrupt them enough times to completely make the fight easy for you. The bad news, if you are having such a hard time with Commandos, then you will have a much harder time with dps vanguards. You cant interrupter a Powertech/vanguard, because there is nothing to interrupt. It is a tough fight because you are a melee class, and a dps vanguard is a 10m range class with huge bursts. It's really a dps race. PTs/Vanguards dont really have much defensive cooldowns, you need to try to soak up their damage and time your immunity very well at the very end. You're hoping that by then they will be at high enough heat and thats when the table turns. well, depending on the pt level he could be using flamethrower and unload, both of which are interuptable. op, if it makes you feel any better well geared/played maras are nightmares for pts/vanguards at 50. Edited March 30, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchpointServe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I eat marauders on my Vanguard. Kitekitekitekite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I eat marauders on my Vanguard. Kitekitekitekite Never lost a one v one to a vanguard/power/pyrotech on my sentinel. You must have some awful marauders on your server. Edited March 30, 2012 by besbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Never lost a one v one to a vanguard/power/pyrotech on my sentinel. You must have some awful marauders on your server. (isnt ajunta pall the server that imps get horribly crushed in pvp everywhere?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easpeak Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok smart guy. You show me where Vanguard gets a rail shot. I am a 50 Vanguard and I just checked my skill trees and nada. Rail Shot = High Impact Bolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Never lost a one v one to a vanguard/power/pyrotech on my sentinel. You must have some awful marauders on your server. This is precisely the mindless baseless crap that i explicitly asked you NOT to post here. If you can't contain your ego and the idea of "i know everything i'm so good at this game" go else where. This thread was made for a constructive and intelligent discussion about players' strategies against Vanguards and that was clearly outlined prior to the thread contents. So please, while i know you are gods gift to the PvP community, take a few moments to step away from the game and refresh your memory on how to read (since it looks like you didn't quite comprehend the first paragraph of this thread) and try to remember kindergarten when they explained to you why it's important to be respectful and polite. It's painfully obvious that you forgot that. Edited March 30, 2012 by ChairForceOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntyzor Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) As a Sniper it's impossible to beat a good vanguard. Just to make it clear I'm rank 73 Valor and for me a good Vanguard is Tank Spec with DPS Gear. If they start targeting you with that 5% armor reduction per shot skill, move away ... nothing to do here. You'll end up dying in a few secs. Edited March 30, 2012 by ntyzor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 well, depending on the pt level he could be using flamethrower and unload, both of which are interuptable. op, if it makes you feel any better well geared/played maras are nightmares for pts/vanguards at 50. Oh yeah im not worried about it. Like i said i'm not complaining that they are OP or anything. i know they're beatable. It's simply a flaw in my play style and strategy. But i think ive been able to figure it out with all the feedback from these players. I did a few more WZ's tonight and ive been doing much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) it's about level/gear, at 50 with all things being equal, if your cooldowns are up, you should never lose, if they aren't you still have a reasonable chance unless rail shot gets a proc binge for them. Edited March 30, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Darkness Assassins and Marauders suffer from the burden of being overpowered. When you usually win your fights, that means you're less likely to have all your CDs for any particular fight (dying tends to give ample time for CDs to reset), so you'll be caught in a lot of undesireable matchups. There are some fights I get into where I would be telling myself, "I only need to use Overcharge Saber to beat this guy" and then found that even that isn't up and then die. On the other hand, Vanguards are pretty much glass cannons and they die a lot. I play every character like a melee tank, even a Sorc, and yet I'll see Vanguards legitmately die more often than me playing a Sorc as a tank. But this also means each time you see a Vanguard, they probably have all their CDs up due to the amount of time they spent dead. They don't have the longevity of Marauder/Darkness, but they usually can take someone with them before they go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Rail Shot = High Impact Bolt There is nothing special about HIB. It is a 1300 point shot and has a 15 second cool down, and can only be used on incapacitated/dotted targets. Gee what a game breaker that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easpeak Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Short answer: You don't. All you can do as a marauder is swing your sabers wildly. Not hard to deal with you at all. As a shield specialist vanguard with alittle tactics I have no problem fighting you at close range. In fact, I can do more damage at close range. There is nothing you can do but outgea me. Other than that I will always win 1vs1. Anyone tries to run I storm or harpoon them. Ranged classes hardly ever escape or stay far enough away to LOS me. A melee class might as well not even try. Marauders are good for helping kill healers, but not much else. Can't storm/harpoon what you can't see or when you are stunned . DOT and LOS was meant to just give a small short time advantage I'm not saying a melee class should try to LOS the whole fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_gideon Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Ok smart guy. You show me where Vanguard gets a rail shot. I am a 50 Vanguard and I just checked my skill trees and nada. Rail Shot is imperial name. Check your bars for High Impact Bolt. Assault vanguards are ridiculous. My RL wanted me to respec to DPS for Bonethrasher NMM so I spent a couple of hours practising because I was worried about having to learn a new rotation. I shouldn't have been. My ~6 button tanking rotation went down to 4 buttons. I topped DPS in every WZ despite wearing full defensive PVE tank gear and generally sucking at PVP. I had to watch ammo a little more but that was it. Edited March 30, 2012 by _gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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