How do you beat a Vanguard?

[Silwyth]

Rail Shot = High Impact Bolt

 

There is nothing special about HIB. It is a 1300 point shot and has a 15 second cool down, and can only be used on incapacitated/dotted targets. Gee what a game breaker that is!

 

That is why they are putting a 6 second internal cd on Prototype Particle Accelerator, and forcing us to use Combustible Gas Cylinder to proc it. Effectively killing the Caroline Parakeet spec.

[Digtahk]

I found playing both Marauder and Assassin the way the skill gains are structured they feel kinda weak until the mid 40s level wise........ don't worry about it until you reach max level.

[Torcer]

Unless you’re a PyroTek, you don’t beat a VG/PT 1v1 IF the VG/PT is good.*

 

-I’m IronFist specced, so YMMV.

[BDutch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3HZW4IolKk

[Kaarsa]

I eat marauders on my Vanguard. Kitekitekitekite

 

Marauders are unkitable for vanguards. Same 50% slow and more gap-closers than vanguard have gap openers (namely, vanguard has 2 of them).

 

Currently you kill vanguards as marauder by 1. constantly dealing damage. 2. your defensive CDs. Saber ward - 12 seconds of 50% chance to dodge HIB and 25% dmg reduction on everyting that hits you. Cloak of pain, turned on after you are DoTed = 30 seconds of 20% damage reduction. Force camo - it is for anni spec currently basicaly a DoT removal and gap closer in one. Undying rage = 5 sec of immortality. Obfuscate = 6 sec of laughing at his HIBs.

 

What has vanguard to response for that? 25% damage reduction shield for 12 seconds and 25% additional crit rate for 15 seconds.

 

Of course, lev 38 vanguard will probably crush lev 38 marauder without much effort, since he already have almost everything important to roll over and marauders are so dependant on their 31pts talents.

[Xclusive]

Ok smart guy. You show me where Vanguard gets a rail shot. I am a 50 Vanguard and I just checked my skill trees and nada.

 

Rail Shot=HIB...

[Lhaim]

stab him, they hate it

[muradi]

watch my vids, they'll show you how

[iDubstep]

Flavor of the Month not as easy to play as you hoped?

 

"But forum said I would be the most OP this month... Q_Q"

 

Noticed a lot of you under 40 FOTMs don't know how to handle a level 22 Powertech.

 

I /rofl on the corpses if they are over level 25.

[Dayshadow]

It's really a dps race. PTs/Vanguards dont really have much defensive cooldowns, you need to try to soak up their damage and time your immunity very well at the very end. You're hoping that by then they will be at high enough heat and thats when the table turns.

 

Heavy defensives at the end is pointless. I never use cryo grenade unless my opponent uses a stun on me, simply to even things up. And if they put up defense CDs I'll start kiting if I have no stun ready. Typically that isn't necessary as I usually have about 50% health by the time they near 0%. Not to mention I have a ammo recharge abiliity on a 2min CD that has never been unavailable when needed so good luck catching me in a position to not go on the offense.

 

Marauders need real CC or a damage boost. They are pretty pathetic at the moment.

 

Never lost a one v one to a vanguard/power/pyrotech on my sentinel. You must have some awful marauders on your server.

 

Or some bad vanguards. A vanguard should have no trouble wiping the floor with you. Perhaps they are undergeared.

 

On the other hand, Vanguards are pretty much glass cannons and they die a lot. I play every character like a melee tank, even a Sorc, and yet I'll see Vanguards legitmately die more often than me playing a Sorc as a tank. But this also means each time you see a Vanguard, they probably have all their CDs up due to the amount of time they spent dead. They don't have the longevity of Marauder/Darkness, but they usually can take someone with them before they go down.

 

Vanguards are not glass canons. In huttball I tend to walk the ball to ball with no support from my team while 3-4 enemy players beat on me. On top of that I can beat anyone 1vs1. I do not die alot. Even without a healer I typically only die 1-2 times a match, if I die at all. Unless the team marks me for focus fire and specifically comes after me. I am "immortal" alot. As a shield spec with tactic up to Gut I typically do 90K-140K DPS a match and I have no trouble at all taking marauders or assassins. Assassins usually end up trying to stealth or sprint away if they are smart.

 

Can't storm/harpoon what you can't see or when you are stunned . DOT and LOS was meant to just give a small short time advantage I'm not saying a melee class should try to LOS the whole fight.

 

And a marauder is going to stun me with what? And stun me long enough to run to some kind of cover?

 

The only classes that can effectively stun twice without breaking one of the stuns with DOT dmg is sorc/sage, I believe. In which case, running and breaking LOS would cancel their healing efficiency. I normally ignore them unless they are healing or I see them heading for high ground in Alderaan center (I follow all snipers and sorcs up there to prevent a shooting gallery). The DPS variants die so fast they aren't even an issue. My closing abilities negates their snare lightning which imo is their greatest defensive asset. I storm, they knockback, I pull them to me. Storm is on 15s and harpoon on 30s CD. All else fails I'll cryo them. They cannot keep me away.

 

It's funny because I can play ranged and have 2 closers. Melee only have 1. Marauders need a long range utility saber throw that trips a player (stun) and slows them for 2 secs afterwards. Their lack of CC/utility really makes them a joke. I can't understand why anyone would think they are overpowered.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Dayshadow

[mjohnsonfhk]

Rail Shot = High Impact Bolt

 

There is nothing special about HIB. It is a 1300 point shot and has a 15 second cool down, and can only be used on incapacitated/dotted targets. Gee what a game breaker that is!

 

LOL this is TOO funny.

[ZDProletariat]

As a Sniper it's impossible to beat a good vanguard. Just to make it clear I'm rank 73 Valor and for me a good Vanguard is Tank Spec with DPS Gear.

 

If they start targeting you with that 5% armor reduction per shot skill, move away ... nothing to do here. You'll end up dying in a few secs.

 

Impossible? Maybe you haven't realized that they are essentially melee classes. Keep them away, they lose a lot of their DPS. You can kill them.

[ZDProletariat]

LOL this is TOO funny.

 

yeah I laughed as well

[TheNegotiator]

LOL this is TOO funny.

 

What's so funny dill hole. What I said is true. If you want armor pierce it's not free you have to buy it.

[Nmaharg]

As a marauder hope he gets unlucky and railshot doesn't proc/misses(Blind him asap, also pop saber ward). Outside of that you're dead. Flame burst alone will kill you. It's a dps race and they do a **** ton more front loaded dps. All our dps is back loaded cause of the dots. If you can survive the first 6~ seconds you may have a chance.

[Torcer]

Impossible? Maybe you haven't realized that they are essentially melee classes. Keep them away, they lose a lot of their DPS. You can kill them.

 

Heh, no, I almost feel bad for Snipers vs, VGs, they are literally the only class that Vanguards can actually Tank. Vanguards have Range and Melee, but it’s also pretty easy to close with Storm, or pull with Grapple. BioWare’s Melee/Range/Force/Tech system is so screwed up in practice, everyone gravitates towards Force/Tech, but Snipers can’t.

[Ryotknife]

As a Sniper it's impossible to beat a good vanguard. Just to make it clear I'm rank 73 Valor and for me a good Vanguard is Tank Spec with DPS Gear.

 

If they start targeting you with that 5% armor reduction per shot skill, move away ... nothing to do here. You'll end up dying in a few secs.

 

i think you are confusing vanguard/powertech with commando/mercenary

 

on the bright side (for us) you are the only class which we can actually tank.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Ryotknife

[gofortheko]

Powertechs are no issue at 50 once youre in champ gear and above. At least for Watchman.

[sjmc]

That being said, i'm a Sith Warrior (Marauder) and i have a VERY difficult time killing Vanguards. My typical strategy for fighting them is to try to sneak up and immediately apply a movement slow and get my bleeds up. As soon as i get my bleeds rolling i use force choke to let the bleeds tick while hes choking. When the chock ends i'll chain defensive CD's.

I'm an Assault Vanguard, but I often use Ion Cell in PVP for the armor bonus and guard ability. I've always wondered what the point of that "choke" thing is that Sith use -- they don't seem to do any damage to me while it is underway. If they are "bleeding" me, it isn't enough to notice.

 

Lightsabers, though -- they seem to hurt. I'd advise using one of those.

 

Note that if I am in Ion Cell mode (which gives +50% bonus to armor), my DPS will be quite a bit less than if I use Plasma Cell (in which case I would be easier to kill).

 

Having someone beat on the healer than I am guarding will bring down my health, and prevent them from healing me....

 

Rail Shot = High Impact Bolt

 

There is nothing special about HIB. It is a 1300 point shot and has a 15 second cool down, and can only be used on incapacitated/dotted targets. Gee what a game breaker that is!

I have some talents that give my other main instant attacks a chance to cancel the HIB cooldown, and makes HIB give bonus ammo back. Also, most enemies will be burning when fighting me, so HIB is generally always available if not on CD. Edited March 30, 2012 by sjmc

[Fdzzaigl]

From your description, it looks as if you're fighting a commando, not a vanguard.

 

I have trouble with commandos on my low level Marauder as well, but that's because you lack defensive cooldowns, interrupts and dots to put on them and they simply DPS you to hell.

 

As for vanguards, don't believe the horror stories told here, if an equally geared and skilled Marauder fights an equally geared and skilled DPS Vanguard, the Marauder will win unless the Vanguard gets extremely lucky with procs & crits.

 

Marauders will be in serious trouble when their defensive cooldowns are not up though.

 

What you should remember, is that Assault Vanguards have little to no defences that matter to you, and no abilities to get away from you, stay on their ***, put up your dots, watch your health (be ready to use your cooldowns) and bury him.

 

You could even dot him up and LoS for a bit only to charge back in when you've buried him in a health deficit already.

 

Learn to use LoS effectively against all classes (yes, even as a melee) and a whole new world will open up for you.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[PRSturm]

I play Vanguard. I'm trying out new builds. I run tactics with combat tech armor and supercommando stuff, in ion cell. Basically I'm off-tanking in PvP, and Hold the Line is the lynchpin to the build. Tanky-tank Vanguards just don't hit very hard. Assault Vanguards blow their wads. Tactics is all about mobility.

 

To beat a tanky-tank Vanguard, you just gotta smash them down. To beat an Assault Vanguard, you gotta let them blow their wad. Step back, let them make their move, mitigate what you can, and then respond. A lot of people PvP with no sense of rhythm... they just sort of go at it. Well, give the enemy time to hang themselves. See what they are doing, don't worry about getting off your rotation.

 

Your post seems like you're very concerned with getting your rotation off. Don't worry so much. Yes, it is important, but you can't fight from an abstract rotation. Maybe they've learned to counter your standard cookie-cutter rotations. Change what you do. They've probably spent a month getting smashed in the face and have learned how to counter people's DPS rotations.

[jitsuo]

You use Obsfucate. You then /laugh because they hit like a wet noodle without Rail Shot

[Astarica]

For any melee versus Commando, the thing to remember is not to use your gap closer while approaching them the first time, because if you do they'll use Jet Boost and that's basically 3 Gravround/Tracers without any possibility of retaliation if you don't have a gap closer up, which you won't if you use leap to approach them. They cannot snare you from range, so just suck up the first Gravround/Tracer and walk up to them and prepare to counter the Jet Boost.

[ZeusThunder]

Yeah, Thanks again for the input guys.

 

 

 

Like i said, i don't have an issue staying in melee range and getting hits off. It's just it seems like i hit like a wet noodle on them, when my CD's are rolling im fine, but as soon as my Cloak the Pain drops it seems like they unload on me for very heavy hits and i just can't muster the DPS.

 

I'll try obs. ive been using berserk for the healing/extra damage, but i'll def give that a try. Thanks for the info.

 

Truth be told, Vanguards/Powertechs are one of the best, if not the best, 1v1 class in the game.

- Only 2 of their abilities are channeled, and those aren't even critical for them to use.

- They can either keep a constant slow on you, or they will have a 15% speed boost.

- They are probably popping their shield, which is further reducing your damage against them by 25%

 

Here is your best strategy to try when 1v1. It isn't a guaranteed win, but will give you your best shot.

1) If you see the blue/red shield come up, they have probably also cast their 25% crit chance boost, and maybe an adrenal/trinket too. Try to kite/avoid and CC them when this occurs. After 20 seconds or so, go back to attacking.

2) A really good Vanguard will try to keep you around 8m away and kite you. Do not let them do this.

3) Don't think you have a cleanse, but if you do spam it. Cleanse annoys Powertechs more than anything.

4) A good time to use your CC break is when they use the single target stun on you. For Vanguards, you get "frozen" in carbonite. For Powertechs, you get shocked.

[ZeusThunder]

For any melee versus Commando, the thing to remember is not to use your gap closer while approaching them the first time, because if you do they'll use Jet Boost and that's basically 3 Gravround/Tracers without any possibility of retaliation if you don't have a gap closer up, which you won't if you use leap to approach them. They cannot snare you from range, so just suck up the first Gravround/Tracer and walk up to them and prepare to counter the Jet Boost.

 

He's asking about Vanguards/Powertechs, not Commandos/Mercs