How do you beat a Vanguard?

[Agooz]

Never lost a one v one to a vanguard/power/pyrotech on my sentinel. You must have some awful marauders on your server.

 

and you must have some very bad Pyros on yours. lol

[Agooz]

What's so funny dill hole. What I said is true. If you want armor pierce it's not free you have to buy it.

 

I think you just humiliated yourself, not once, but twice so far. We're talking about Powertechs/Vanguards. To say that Rail Shot/HIB is not a game breaker, then you probably are the least knowledgeable about the class. Hec the entire nerf PTs/Van are getting is exclusively and entirely about Railshot/HIB. Maybe you should be on the receiving end of some back to back RS/HIBs and lose roughly 8-9k in under 3sec.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Agooz

[fungihoujo]

Step 1- reroll a marauder

 

 

Wait, you're already one. Ugh, fine, I'll make it a two step plan.

 

Step 2- don't suck.

 

 

Here's a special way you can use this template to apply to anything ever!

 

 

How to beat a <insert anything here>

 

Step 1- reroll a marauder

Step 2- don't suck.

 

 

You now know how to play SWTOR.

[theShadeyGuy]

you're doing something wrong, im a 40 marauder, and I've been dominating since 24, its just cake now, 300k dmg done, 7 medals avg per wz for me now.

 

I'm Annihilation , also spec'd more towards pve

[Zunayson]

Vanguards have a knock back?

 

They can kite with Hold the Line and Cryo Grenade. And in 1.2, Pulse cannon will apply a 70% when maxed out stacks of... well... it increases the damage by a lot. Also, their spammable dot will apply a 6 second 30% slow.

 

So yes they can kite very, very, VERY well.

[Zunayson]

One thing to remember when dealing with Vanguards/Powertechs as a Marauder is Obfuscate works very well against them. Save it for them if you know you're dealing with one in a WZ, it will give you a head start that is hard to battle back from in a strictly 1v1 sense.

 

Most of them are going to be a DPS spec in PvP that has strong burst and mostly ignores armor, but leaves them with basically no defensive capability. You should have close to 100% melee range uptime on these targets in a 1v1; once you are engaged it's simply a race to the bottom (of your health pools). There's nothing much else to really work out - if you're still losing in a 1v1 you're either getting outplayed or are outgeared. If your melee uptime is suffering (i.e. you are getting kited for periods of 3-4+ GCDs), it's probably the former, though it doesn't help that you're still leveling.

 

This match-up (assuming Pyro spec on the VG/PT) is one of the more even ones in the game 1v1 IMO, though I think it does favor the Marauder if Obfuscate is up when engagement begins. It gets slightly easier in 1.2 with the Pyro nerf, though fighting an AP/Tactics spec might be a different story as that is going to turn into a joust-happy matchup.

 

Edit - Spec typo.

 

Lol don't listen to this bad's first 2 sentences. All of the vanguard (That is, Vanguard EXCLUSIVE) damage is elemental/Tech. Let's focus on Tech. Tech attacks are NOT affected by Obfuscate. Obfuscate is MELEE/RANGE only. Range is really just Marksman snipers only, and Melee is really just Combat Sentinels. Yellow numbers = Tech/Force, White numbers = Melee/Range

 

Oh, see when you say vanguard, you may be refering to only Assualt spec vanguards (Even though "Vanguard damage" is actually magic fireballs, electric bolts, and knives). Yes, most of their burst comes from High Impact Bolt, which is ranged. And only bad vanguards use Full Auto (Channel = standing still).

 

TL;DR: Obfuscate only works on Assault Specialist (If you get caught on fire because of them, they're assault. If they knife you, they're tactics, if they electrocute you with stockstrike, they're tank).

[Dovahbrah]

i'm level 38

 

 

These are the kinds of things you're suppose to tell us in the OP.

[sjmc]

TL;DR: Obfuscate only works on Assault Specialist (If you get caught on fire because of them, they're assault. If they knife you, they're tactics, if they electrocute you with stockstrike, they're tank).

My Assault Specialist uses shockstrike often -- it hits for a lot and has a high chance of ending the HIB cooldown. You do have to be in melee range to use it though.

 

Also, if I have Ion Cell turned on, rather than Plasma Cell, you might not catch on fire as often.

Edited March 31, 2012 by sjmc

[Eibhibac]

Ive never had a problem beating a Vanguard, I think your issue is you are blowing your CD's too early. Wait till your closer to death before popping Unying Rage. That wait he will think you are about to die and blow all his CD's . If you need extra time go into stealth and just let the DoT's tick before popping back out.

[Zunayson]

My Assault Specialist uses shockstrike often -- it hits for a lot and has a high chance of ending the HIB cooldown. You do have to be in melee range to use it though.

 

Also, if I have Ion Cell turned on, rather than Plasma Cell, you might not catch on fire as often.

 

Stockstrike is a Tech attack, not melee. If it were melee, it would hit for a wet noodle (Not like you already do), because your strength is like 60.

[Zunayson]

My Assault Specialist uses shockstrike often -- it hits for a lot and has a high chance of ending the HIB cooldown. You do have to be in melee range to use it though.

 

Also, if I have Ion Cell turned on, rather than Plasma Cell, you might not catch on fire as often.

 

You cannot electrocute him with Stockstrike, unless you wasted points. And it's impossible to catch people on fire with procs form Ion Cell

 

The fire meant from a fire grenade. The only people I know who DONT run their spec cell is Tactics because HiC is apparently pretty bad (I like it, it allows me to use whatever the hell I want, anytime).

[sjmc]

Stockstrike is a Tech attack, not melee. If it were melee, it would hit for a wet noodle (Not like you already do), because your strength is like 60.

I don't think I have any melee attacks. I mentioned Shockstrike because someone said that people that use Shockstrike are tanks, which isn't necessarily true.

[Wallach]

TL;DR: Obfuscate only works on Assault Specialist (If you get caught on fire because of them, they're assault. If they knife you, they're tactics, if they electrocute you with stockstrike, they're tank).

 

I'm talking specifically about Assault/Pyro, yes, because those are the ones that actually kill people in 1v1 PvP against a Marauder.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Wallach

[AnEvilBus]

make sure you pull out all the stops they are really troublesome but it's best to pvp with some-one anyway, it's more of a sith sorc role than a melee class ( since their attacks ignore shield's). i know i wasn't helpful but oh well. Edited March 31, 2012 by AnEvilBus

[ChairForceOne]

Wow, lots of info here. Thanks to those who contributed. But for those that are on the "thats OP" topic, please move on

[Varicite]

One thing to remember when dealing with Vanguards/Powertechs as a Marauder is Obfuscate works very well against them. Save it for them if you know you're dealing with one in a WZ, it will give you a head start that is hard to battle back from in a strictly 1v1 sense.

 

Most of them are going to be a DPS spec in PvP that has strong burst and mostly ignores armor, but leaves them with basically no defensive capability. You should have close to 100% melee range uptime on these targets in a 1v1; once you are engaged it's simply a race to the bottom (of your health pools). There's nothing much else to really work out - if you're still losing in a 1v1 you're either getting outplayed or are outgeared. If your melee uptime is suffering (i.e. you are getting kited for periods of 3-4+ GCDs), it's probably the former, though it doesn't help that you're still leveling.

 

This match-up (assuming Pyro spec on the VG/PT) is one of the more even ones in the game 1v1 IMO, though I think it does favor the Marauder if Obfuscate is up when engagement begins. It gets slightly easier in 1.2 with the Pyro nerf, though fighting an AP/Tactics spec might be a different story as that is going to turn into a joust-happy matchup.

 

Edit - Spec typo.

 

This is good advice. The only thing that I would add is that if you hear them laugh, then Obfuscate. When it wears, the next time you hear them laugh, pop Saber Ward.

 

The laughter you hear is their proc that gives them a free High-Impact Bolt. It's ranged damage, so it's mitigated by defenses, and can be deflected. The Obfuscate should deny them 3-5k damage, depending on how well-geared they are. Saber Ward will also give them a 50% chance to be deflected on this attack.

 

This is their biggest attack, and their entire talent tree is focused on making this one ability make you cry. Denying this for a time (which Marauders are good at later in the game) while continuing to do damage to them will pretty much ensure your victory.

 

Just remember to do as much damage to them as fast as possible, they have no real defenses or way to escape from combat. They may be able to bring just as much damage as you can, but the difference is that Marauders have Saber Ward, Obfuscate, Vanish, and Undying Rage to prolong their own death, while Vanguards only have their 25% damage reduction cooldown. Once that runs out, his health should run out before yours does as long as you manage to stay on him.

 

Basically, it's a DPS race, only you have more ways to slow your death down than they do.

 

Get a few more levels under your belt, and some nice gear, and things should start to change for you. : )

Edited March 31, 2012 by Varicite

[Varicite]

Lol don't listen to this bad's first 2 sentences. All of the vanguard (That is, Vanguard EXCLUSIVE) damage is elemental/Tech. Let's focus on Tech. Tech attacks are NOT affected by Obfuscate. Obfuscate is MELEE/RANGE only. Range is really just Marksman snipers only, and Melee is really just Combat Sentinels. Yellow numbers = Tech/Force, White numbers = Melee/Range

 

Oh, see when you say vanguard, you may be refering to only Assualt spec vanguards (Even though "Vanguard damage" is actually magic fireballs, electric bolts, and knives). Yes, most of their burst comes from High Impact Bolt, which is ranged. And only bad vanguards use Full Auto (Channel = standing still).

 

TL;DR: Obfuscate only works on Assault Specialist (If you get caught on fire because of them, they're assault. If they knife you, they're tactics, if they electrocute you with stockstrike, they're tank).

 

There is really a ton of misinformation in your post. In fact, the only truth is in your second paragraph. Well, besides the part about Full-Auto.

 

It's true that a lot of damage is Tech-based for VGs, but their hardest hitter (the one that is going to KILL you) is High-Impact Bolt critting for 30% more damage w/ 90% armor pen over and over. This is the attack that you want to avoid at all costs, not Ion Pulse/Flame Burst. Those are just used to proc more High-Impact Bolts and to apply the snare/dot from their cylinder/ammo.

 

Right now in the game, if you're talking about a VG, you're talking about tanks or Assault Specialist/Pyrotech. There are very, very few Tactics/Advanced Prototype players, and they are generally easier to kill than either of the other 2 specs.

[biowareftw]

Railshot/high impact bolt is a RANGED attack. What does that mean? If you lose to one on a marauder/sent you are an idiot. You can lock them out of their highest dmg spell outside TC/Assault plastique and you can force camo that (changing in 1.2 to only be 50 percent dmg reduction).

 

Also I have no idea what people are thinking, claiming watchman/annihilation is a "pve spec". I hope these fail sent/marauders have fun with their "fotm rage/focus build". We are going to kick the living crap out of them as watchman/annihilation. All the chicken littles claiming we are going to respec rage/focus are out of their mind. Carnage/Combat MIGHT be "ok" in 1.2. It still isn't a 1 v 1 spec, unless they are dumb, in which case you kill them as fast as a scoundrel/op/pt/vanguard (bursty classes).

 

Basically you should be losing to the following classes as annihilation/watchman.

 

Tank sins/shadows with a clue (they beat everyone though).

 

GOOD sniper/slingers (who are your 100 percent counter, and were designed to be that). Their hard counter is stealth classes.

 

Op/scoundrel who knows to CC rebuke. They are as hard a counter to you as slinger/sniper. Their hard counter is Sins.

 

That is it. You should be beating everyone else. You CAN beat all of the above classes when they are worse then you. You should never, ever lose to a vanguard/PT 1 v 1 though. Are they bursty? Yup. Are they a fantastic warzone dmg class. Absolutely. Are they even close to the best duel class in the game? No. They simply beat bad players quickly.

Edited March 31, 2012 by biowareftw

[Varicite]

Railshot/high impact bolt is a RANGED attack. What does that mean? If you lose to one on a marauder/sent you are an idiot. You can lock them out of their highest dmg spell outside TC/Assault plastique and you can force camo that (changing in 1.2 to only be 50 percent dmg reduction).

 

Also I have no idea what people are thinking, claiming watchman/annihilation is a "pve spec". I hope these fail sent/marauders have fun with their "fotm rage/focus build". We are going to kick the living crap out of them as watchman/annihilation. All the chicken littles claiming we are going to respec rage/focus are out of their mind. Carnage/Combat MIGHT be "ok" in 1.2. It still isn't a 1 v 1 spec, unless they are dumb, in which case you kill them as fast as a scoundrel/op/pt/vanguard (bursty classes).

 

Basically you should be losing to the following classes as annihilation/watchman.

 

Tank sins/shadows with a clue (they beat everyone though).

 

GOOD sniper/slingers (who are your 100 percent counter, and were designed to be that). Their hard counter is stealth classes.

 

Op/scoundrel who knows to CC rebuke. They are as hard a counter to you as slinger/sniper. There hard counter is Sins.

 

That is it. You should be beating everyone else. You CAN beat all of the above classes when they are worse then you. You should never, ever lose to a vanguard/PT 1 v 1 though. Are they bursty? Yup. Are they a fantastic warzone dmg class. Absolutely. Are they even close to the best duel class in the game? No. They simply beat bad players quickly.

 

Hey now, we beat good players pretty quickly too, so long as they aren't Tankasins, Healing Commandos, or Anni Marauders. : P

[jitsuo]

I say again, Obsfucate makes Rail Shot USELESS during its duration. To those that are saying that Obsfucate doesn't work, please hear this out.

 

Rail Shot is WEAPON DAMAGE, that's why it's WHITE. Obsfucate decreases WEAPON DAMAGE ACCURACY by 90%.

 

Obsfucate is key for destroying a PT/VG

[biowareftw]

Hey now, we beat good players pretty quickly too, so long as they aren't Tankasins, Healing Commandos, or Anni Marauders. : P

 

I would add op/scoundrels to that list as well. Sniper/slinger can beat ya as well. Thing is? Good sniper/slingers are insanely rare and good op/scoundrels all rerolled or specced healing lol.

[biowareftw]

I say again, Obsfucate makes Rail Shot USELESS during its duration. To those that are saying that Obsfucate doesn't work, please hear this out.

 

Rail Shot is WEAPON DAMAGE, that's why it's WHITE. Obsfucate decreases WEAPON DAMAGE ACCURACY by 90%.

 

Obsfucate is key for destroying a PT/VG

 

Slinger/sniper debuff works as well for 9 seconds but is 45 percent accuracy. Not AS hard a counter as sent/marauders debuff but still nasty to a PT/Vanguard. Missing half your railshots for 9 seconds? Would suck lol.

 

People are just dumb.

[Wallach]

I would add op/scoundrels to that list as well. Sniper/slinger can beat ya as well. Thing is? Good sniper/slingers are insanely rare and good op/scoundrels all rerolled or specced healing lol.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger is really painful if they are good. One of the worst. The only reason it is more tolerable than the Marauder match-up is LOS and their necessity for emplacement.

[Varicite]

I would add op/scoundrels to that list as well. Sniper/slinger can beat ya as well. Thing is? Good sniper/slingers are insanely rare and good op/scoundrels all rerolled or specced healing lol.

 

Y'know, Taugrim's got a sniper alt that kicks my Marauder's behind all over the lowbie WZs right now. I'm really scared for when he gets to 50 and I have to see him on my PT; you're right, a good Sniper will eat a Pyro PT alive, lol.

 

I don't have too many problems w/ Ops/Scoundrels, but I also try to be careful not to leave myself in too many compromising positions (ie: traveling alone, low on health and staying in an area I know there's an Op, etc). It also helps that I have an Immortal Juggernaut watching my back most of the time. : )

[Astarica]

Both Marauder and Tanksins have a very hard time of 'pulling all the stops' against a Vanguard/PT becasue you probably already pulled all the stops dealing with one of the two aforementioned classes.

 

If all your cooldowns are up it's pretty easy to defeat a Vanguard/PT, but this is almost never the case because the Vanguard/PT dies more often than either of those two classes, and thus is far more likely to have all his CDs up. Sometimes you just got to suck up an occasional loss and accept it. The worst thing you can do is try to single them out just because they got lucky a few times, because if you single out a Vanguard/PT, then another Marauder/Tanksin will pretty much chew you up 100% of the time since those are the fights you have no chance of winning if you're behind on cooldowns, whereas you at lesat have some chance of beating a Vanguard from a bad position.