ZeroSSJJ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 My main issue is aoe threat which just got harder. yes yes i know people should only attack the target of the tank which my help with the target of my target feature but most aoes do so much dmg they pull off in a heartbeat why should my cd be increased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDIOUSFAN Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Replacing useless feats by other useless feats and nerfing main abilities... They call that balance... ... Seriously I have spent last weeks getting stuff, mods and sophistications in order to enhance my smash damages ; watching it growing by some little percents day after day... Just to see it nerfed back by a row 10% when the big wonderfull waited patch hits live servers... hahahaha Is the true purpose of this patch to keep players playing the game or making them /ragequit right now ? Edited March 17, 2012 by SIDIOUSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightohfive Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Well from reading this thread and a few others, here is a quick overview of what these changes mean: Juggernauts have been nerfed and they will now be overpowered. hurray4forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reli_BOON Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 um i think that we got less nerfed than other classes which in turned makes us buffed and OP. does it make sense? we'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 hmmm, i thought they were going to sort out the Guardians/Juggernaut survivability issues to make them more playable, compared to ranged classes??? Cause i haven't seen anything about that yet and its SEVERELY needed and i really do refuse to spec into the tanking tree just because its *easier*, i think they need to fix a class before putting in more features for the class....just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdamornin Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 My main issue is aoe threat which just got harder. yes yes i know people should only attack the target of the tank which my help with the target of my target feature but most aoes do so much dmg they pull off in a heartbeat why should my cd be increased? AE Threat just got harder? No, it didn't. Yes, yes, people should only attack the tank's target? No, no, they shouldn't. If you are tanking correctly, you are switching targets...a lot. If you are relying solely on Smash/Sweeping to keep AE Threat, you are doing it wrong. Your statement here indicates that you are also one of the (many) bad dps players in the game. Kill order is weaks/strong stragglers>strongs>elites>champion/boss. Always. As the tank, your primary target (elites) should always be the last to die. Always. They raised the CD on our AE Taunt? Yes, they did raise the CD on an ability we don't even really need in the first place, if you are tanking correctly. This is no big loss in PvE, and a debatable one in PvP. ZeroSSJJ - my statements here might seem like an attack, but they are not intended to be one. One thing that I am wondering right now, is whether or not the *new abilities* we are supposed to be getting are included in the patch notes. Yes, there are new abilities there, but I took that to mean new attacks, not CD's, conditions, or proc's. Riôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcoremaster Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 To me it looks like Rage might have not gotten much but Veng Juggs just got a huge buff. Saber throw will let us use shatter now, we can dump our excess rage (which we have a lot of) for a heal, and Vicious Throw is now 30% HP. Currently I can get like a 95% Crit chance on Vicious Throw and it can hit for over 5k. Also people saying our DOT's in Veng didn't get a buff are missing the fact that tier 4 gear with new damage formula calculations could mean the DOTs become OK. We just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 To me it looks like Rage might have not gotten much but Veng Juggs just got a huge buff. Saber throw will let us use shatter now, we can dump our excess rage (which we have a lot of) for a heal, and Vicious Throw is now 30% HP. Currently I can get like a 95% Crit chance on Vicious Throw and it can hit for over 5k. Also people saying our DOT's in Veng didn't get a buff are missing the fact that tier 4 gear with new damage formula calculations could mean the DOTs become OK. We just don't know. That heal will use more than just excess rage. It will leave you rage starved and cut into your dps. it's up to 14 rage for a rather small heal for the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 hmmm, i thought they were going to sort out the Guardians/Juggernaut survivability issues to make them more playable, compared to ranged classes??? Cause i haven't seen anything about that yet and its SEVERELY needed and i really do refuse to spec into the tanking tree just because its *easier*, i think they need to fix a class before putting in more features for the class....just saying. They only way that works is if they've nerfed other classes even harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansuki Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 AE Threat just got harder? No, it didn't. Yes, yes, people should only attack the tank's target? No, no, they shouldn't. If you are tanking correctly, you are switching targets...a lot. If you are relying solely on Smash/Sweeping to keep AE Threat, you are doing it wrong. Your statement here indicates that you are also one of the (many) bad dps players in the game. Kill order is weaks/strong stragglers>strongs>elites>champion/boss. Always. As the tank, your primary target (elites) should always be the last to die. Always. They raised the CD on our AE Taunt? Yes, they did raise the CD on an ability we don't even really need in the first place, if you are tanking correctly. This is no big loss in PvE, and a debatable one in PvP. Riôt It will probably be harder for fresh 50s and under 50s without the gear to hold group threat, but I concur, its nothing that cant be worked around. I have PT tank and its AOE taunt is 45sec (albeit way way way better cause it is ranged). The AOE taunt is only ever useful once per pull I find anyway, about mid way when guys start dropping off aggro due to AOEs from the DPS and my taunt/stuns are on CD. I just figured that cause the PTs had the ranged advantage, ours was given the cooldown reduction to even it out. Now it is obvious that AOE tanking is best done by the PT, if it wasnt already. Bring on the challenge, Im getting bored in nightmare anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alizaro Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I'm baffled there isn't more of an uproar over the smash nerf. 3 seconds more up to 12 is 1/3 or 33% less damage we'll be doing on our only really good damage dealing skill. Now it's going to hit for 10% less too? One of you math guys wanna calculate a total percentage on how huge of a hit that is? Amazingly the few nerf cries to the least powerful class in the game seem to have caught someone's ear, they can't possibly be justifying this on paper. If I had to guess the complaints came from the vocal healing crowd, hate to be able to kill someone with healing now. Combined with the stun on leap, we're now a liability to our teams pvp effectiveness. Very sad day to be a Jug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyllum Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I'm baffled there isn't more of an uproar over the smash nerf. 3 seconds more up to 12 is 1/3 or 33% less damage we'll be doing on our only really good damage dealing skill. Now it's going to hit for 10% less too? One of you math guys wanna calculate a total percentage on how huge of a hit that is? Amazingly the few nerf cries to the least powerful class in the game seem to have caught someone's ear, they can't possibly be justifying this on paper. If I had to guess the complaints came from the vocal healing crowd, hate to be able to kill someone with healing now. Combined with the stun on leap, we're now a liability to our teams pvp effectiveness. Very sad day to be a Jug. indeed.. a bad day for juggernauts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossonja Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Don't understand why those idiots can't leave things be. Always gotta be screwin over someone, eh? Edited March 18, 2012 by rossonja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Here are my updated thoughts after looking at the talents on the test server (my friend has the client now). Vengeance PvP is effectively dead with the decimate move, you lose out on far too much. Maybe if ravager were moved to vengeance the change would be fine, but as is we don't have the talents we need to keep everything knit together like we did in this patch Rage is strong, contrary to what people are saying the cd on smash and crush are the same as before because decimate lowers the cd on smash enough as well and crush's cd got lowered to 18 seconds by default. Rage also has access to really easy to set up builds now (I'm looking at 2/7/32 or 4/3/34). The on demand shockwave ticks make up for the longer cd on choke. The new CD isn't as shiny as I thought, it's a constant drain on resources. As vengeance it's not bad though because the damage reduction is pretty hefty. Almost makes up for that 4% damage reduction loss... DONT TRAIN CRASH. Can we confirm it is trainable. I thought passives were auto learned with the excepting of the adv class? I saw in PTR thread started about it that someone said they were playing on PTR and they did not have to train it, that it was auto learned. If anyone knows for sure that would be great and save me the time of grinding to lvl 10 on the PTR, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaelgalis Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I'm curious about deafening defense talent on PTS, does it still have passive damage reduction on shien or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzwald Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) For PvP: Immortal wasn't changed because it was already an awesome spec for awesome people. Vengeance makes slightly more sense, I still wouldn't recommend it. Rage was made so drooling toddlers could play the build. Any form of intensive rage management was done away with the vicious slash buff, making this the easiest spec to pull insane damage in. Get ready to see this spec occupied by the worst players. Also I am really happy with the Vengeance Defense changes, not because it was game breaking, but because I was sick and tired of reading terrible tanking build threads which seemed to pop up every day. Thankyou Bioware for axing this terrible playstyle. Edited March 18, 2012 by Schwarzwald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 still doesn't fixed how gimp there dmg is. If you think Juggernauts have gimped damage, you don't know how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midichlorien Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Let some masochists play this class further. The game is young, level a marauder or Sith Assassin or Sorcerer, just play a finished class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boroming Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm baffled there isn't more of an uproar over the smash nerf. 3 seconds more up to 12 is 1/3 or 33% less damage we'll be doing on our only really good damage dealing skill. Now it's going to hit for 10% less too? One of you math guys wanna calculate a total percentage on how huge of a hit that is? Amazingly the few nerf cries to the least powerful class in the game seem to have caught someone's ear, they can't possibly be justifying this on paper. If I had to guess the complaints came from the vocal healing crowd, hate to be able to kill someone with healing now. Combined with the stun on leap, we're now a liability to our teams pvp effectiveness. Very sad day to be a Jug. sadly yeah... i don't understand why people are whining about the stun on charge(it's a problem ok, but not as this) and not this... the big nerf is the 3 sec cd... on smash AND scream. the minus 10% i can live with, ffs i can live with a 20% nerf (my max atm is 7119 and was a bit too much... followed by a 4500 of scream was too much...) but don't touch the cd... sure they give us a new way to build shockwave (enrage now give shockwave if talented) but on the long terms this 3 sec will lower our dmg. and ofc force choke in not 47 sec cd anymore, it will be 60... another nerf for building shockwave... bah when i play in soresu (meaning 12 sec smash) i already feel the long cd... after 1.2 will always be like that... Edited March 19, 2012 by Boroming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumplea Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Actually, I don't care much about those nerfs to our damage. What I'm not happy about is that we are still the least survivable dps class in the game. Look at the defensive cd's of other classes. Now look at what we got. A cd that only works if you have a healer or a medpack and a 25% damage reduction(and it has a freaking 3 minute cd) to the most abundant and strongest damage type in pvp. And no, adding a defensive cd that heals you for a little hp that costs rage everytime you get hit isn't the answer. Seriously, why can't we get at least 20% damage reduction cd when all the other dps classes has the same/larger hp with much better defensive cd than us? Edited March 19, 2012 by Rumplea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Actually, I don't care much about those nerfs to our damage. What I'm not happy about is that we are still the least survivable dps class in the game. Look at the defensive cd's of other classes. Now look at what we got. A cd that only works if you have a healer or a medpack and a 25% damage reduction(and it has a freaking 3 minute cd) to the most abundant and strongest damage type in pvp. And no, adding a defensive cd that heals you for a little hp that costs rage everytime you get hit isn't the answer. Seriously, why can't we get at least 20% damage reduction cd when all the other dps classes has the same/larger hp with much better defensive cd than us? The nerfs to DPS wouldn't have been so bad if they'd left Rage gen alone and added genuine surviability or better utility (such as Force Pull). But unfortunately they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualGuy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 As a pure tank Immortality tank this thing still blows, 1 thing should be changed and i would be happy. Lower the cooldowns on our taunts "ohh its not even a taunt" in regards of dps. well as a tank you should not do dps. only have agro, as a Dps you should have dps, but no agro. How hard can that be to fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Infernus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 hmmm, i thought they were going to sort out the Guardians/Juggernaut survivability issues to make them more playable, compared to ranged classes??? Cause i haven't seen anything about that yet and its SEVERELY needed and i really do refuse to spec into the tanking tree just because its *easier*, i think they need to fix a class before putting in more features for the class....just saying. did you read any of the changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 For PvP: Immortal wasn't changed because it was already an awesome spec for awesome people. Vengeance makes slightly more sense, I still wouldn't recommend it. Rage was made so drooling toddlers could play the build. Any form of intensive rage management was done away with the vicious slash buff, making this the easiest spec to pull insane damage in. Get ready to see this spec occupied by the worst players. Also I am really happy with the Vengeance Defense changes, not because it was game breaking, but because I was sick and tired of reading terrible tanking build threads which seemed to pop up every day. Thankyou Bioware for axing this terrible playstyle. lol like Immortal is so hard to play. The whole spec is a joke and play so slow a moron could play it while keyboardturning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfayc Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 sadly yeah... i don't understand why people are whining about the stun on charge(it's a problem ok, but not as this) and not this... the big nerf is the 3 sec cd... on smash AND scream. the minus 10% i can live with, ffs i can live with a 20% nerf (my max atm is 7119 and was a bit too much... followed by a 4500 of scream was too much...) but don't touch the cd... sure they give us a new way to build shockwave (enrage now give shockwave if talented) but on the long terms this 3 sec will lower our dmg. and ofc force choke in not 47 sec cd anymore, it will be 60... another nerf for building shockwave... bah when i play in soresu (meaning 12 sec smash) i already feel the long cd... after 1.2 will always be like that... Obviously you didn't understand the issue here... People complaining about the crash passive are people thinking about rated pvp and organized gameplay. People (like you) whining about 3 more sec on smash are people who play rage spec. Nobody cares about rage spec as it's a dumb spec designed only to allow mentally challenged players to play sith warrior. I'm not blaming you for playing it, and in fact I love rage spec and the diversity it gives to the game. One of the core aspect of our society is tolerance and I respect that! But dude let's be clear for 2 sec : nobody serious about pvping in this game cares about rage. The point of the discussion is : crash is a nerf and people want to know if Bioware did this nerf on purpose or if they meant to buff the class, in which case it's important to report them the flaws in their thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts