Lord_Scythe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't have a problem seeing more than two Sith running around, its a different time period! So whats your point? Exactly different time period. Color crystals are plentiful in this time period giving both Jedi and Sith more options. How do we know crystals are more colorful? The emperor has not destroyed most of the natural sources yet. People argue canon and iconic and tradition but EU has shown exceptions. There are also more color crystals in EU than red/blue/green. PC's are the heroes of their own story just like the Jedi of the EU books. The EU Jedi got to choose their colors based on personal choice. Many chose to be traditional some did not. PC's should have the same choice as any EU Jedi since this is an EU game. Many PC's will choose to be traditional and some will not! This game is not SWOTMMORPG. That is a good thing because that game would be boring as hell. The story is known and there are no Jedi or Sith to be played! The decisions have been made. For those anal about their immersion I suggest asking for a OT option to make the game look the way you want because it is unlikely to be changed back or changed to faction based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Your talking about Luke Skywalker here, really. The most powerful force user to ever exist and not to mention one of a very select few that ever crossed over to the dark side and reverted back to the light. I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could. Not to mention he did change the ways of how the Jedi traditionally did things *(I.E. Jedi can Marry). Over and over again you're forced to back off your stance that lore supports restriction, but your opinion doesn't change. That pretty much means it's based on feelings rather than facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 "The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades. " -- George Lucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 "The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades. " -- George Lucas +1 Point, set, match! That is the quote I was looking for!!! Thanks Caelrie!!! Do you recall which interview it was in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I see it this way: if the game doesn't allow my LS sith to 'switch sides' then I will at least show my 'disagreement' with the handling of the Empire by not swining a red saber. on top of that my warrior had some pretty good education, and isn't a mindless fool who buys into everything he was taught (he doesn't believe the red crystals to be better, he takes a good hard look at the actual stat gain ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 After playing SWG for several years, I have completely given up on the prospect of any MMO actually adhering to Star Wars lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 +1 Point, set, match! That is the quote I was looking for!!! Thanks Caelrie!!! Do you recall which interview it was in? Next he'll come back and say that George Lucas' opinion doesn't matter, because it's a core thingy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Next he'll come back and say that George Lucas' opinion doesn't matter, because it's a core thingy! There is a guy already with that view point because George Lucas sold out!!! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=337551&page=27 Fourth post from the top! Feel free to read and laugh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 After playing SWG for several years, I have completely given up on the prospect of any MMO actually adhering to Star Wars lore. You should be pleasantly surprised, then, as this MMO actually IS adhering to Star Wars lore. The lore of the Expanded Universe. Of which the game is a part of, and owes its entire existence to. Without the EU...if all we had were the movies...Coruscant would have a completely different name, Pureblood Sith wouldn't exist (nor would the concept of the Sith as a species, in all likelihood), Rattaki wouldn't exist, nor Chiss. And most importantly, this game wouldn't exist, because according to George, all Star Wars is and has ever been (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, from his own mouth & mind) is the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Anything before Episode I and after Episode VI just isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Come to think of it, are lightsaber crystals even mentioned in the films? If we're only going to go by movie canon as the argument now seems to have turned to, better get rid of them. In fact, according to the films the Republic was formed a thousand years before the Prequels, and this game predates that. Better cut them out too. Rattataki, Chiss, Sith Purebloods, Korriban, Coruscant, Tython...in fact about 98% of this game is based on EU lore. If you suddenly want to stop taking that into consideration with both accurate lore, story, setting and certain gameplay mechanics, this game wouldn't exist at all. Edited March 9, 2012 by GrimAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sernon Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) "The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades. " -- George Lucas Too bad you get attached to the material in question, not the infinite possibilities of what-could-have-been. Either you attract people based on the source material, or you go for book burning and revisionist strategies, and sell the product with a clear warning that the source material you enjoyed at the movies now have turned into old crap, and your money is best placed elsewhere if that old junk matters. --- Edited March 9, 2012 by Sernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) There is also this : The symbolism of lightsaber colors -- red for Sith, blue/green for Jedi -- is not so clear-cut in the Expanded Universe. Not only do Dark Jedi wield non-red lightsabers, but Jedi such as Adi Gallia (in the comics Star Wars: Republic) and Leia Organa Solo (in the Corellian Trilogy novels) wield red lightsabers. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/godintelligence/AdiGallia3.jpg ^--Gasp, Jedi using non-standard colors! The in-universe explanation for the lack of lightsaber color variation in the movies is a lack of colored crystals. According to Jedi vs. Sith, the Empire quarantined or destroyed many sources of lightsaber crystals. This left the Jedi with mostly Ilum crystals, which can only produce green or blue blades. There. Can we end this now? Secondly, that quote you guys are throwing around comes from supershadow or whatever, which is a fake site. @_@ Edited March 9, 2012 by Viera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colryn Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most of the novels in the EU aren't even considered canon and that pic is not proof of anything except that the person knows how to crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) This post has been removed for your continued forum-reading enjoyment. Edited March 9, 2012 by Kubernetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most of the novels in the EU aren't even considered canon You're exactly right except for the part about how most of the novels in the EU aren't considered canon. The only EU novels that aren't considered canon are, maybe, the 'young reader' series from the early 90s with titles like 'The Glove of Darth Vader' and 'Mission to Mount Yoda'. That's it. Thrawn Trilogy, Truce at Bakura, NJO, LOTF, FOTJ, the Darth Bane books, TOR books, KOTOR comics, KOTOR games, and more, all canon. Even--tho it pains me to admit it--The Crystal Star. Ugh. If your definition of 'canon' is 'what George Lucas himself considers canon', then cancel your subscription RIGHT NOW because this game is absolutely NOT canon under those terms. If your definition of 'canon' is what LFL, LucasArts, Lucas Licensing, etc all considers canon, as managed by Leland Chee (aka The Guy They Hired Specifically To Deal With Continuity And Canon Matters), then this game IS canon, and the larger scope of the EU--in which the game is, again, FIRMLY set--ranks higher than the movie-era traditions, taboos, regulations and rules of the Jedi and Sith orders. If you want movie-style restrictions on saber colors, go petition LucasArts to support a Saga-era game for you. Quit trying to apply movie restrictions to an era 3000 years before the movies where it's been established FOR DECADES that movie restrictions don't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Canon police: it's a game, not a movie. I understand your concerns, but just because something was never shown in the canon or soft canon doesn't mean it can't be shown in new canon, like TOR. For example, Yoda's race was never mentioned or shown outside of Yoda himself in the movies, but that doesn't stop Star Wars canon from recognizing that other Yoda-like beings exist and can become characters throughout its stories. Edited March 9, 2012 by cipher_nemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Conclusion Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions. The symbols of the big three colors are iconic to the faction which they have been displayed upon. Posters, movies, books, cartoons, toys and comics is proof enough that Red is the faction color of the Sith, while Blue/Green is the faction color of the Jedi, regardless of a select few iconic characters. Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise. We can see examples of sith that used blue lightsabers, and jedi that used red. Synth crystals aren't relevant in this discussion because all of the ones made using artifice are from natural crystals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Too bad you get attached to the material in question, not the infinite possibilities of what-could-have-been. Either you attract people based on the source material, or you go for book burning and revisionist strategies, and sell the product with a clear warning that the source material you enjoyed at the movies now have turned into old crap, and your money is best placed elsewhere if that old junk matters. --- Is this another one of those generic random complaint generator cut-n-pastes? Book burning? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Canon police: it's a game, not a movie. I understand your concerns, but just because something was never shown in the canon or soft canon doesn't mean it can't be shown in new canon, like TOR. For example, Yoda's race was never mentioned or shown outside of Yoda himself in the movies, but that doesn't stop Star Wars canon from recognizing that other Yoda-like beings exist and can become characters throughout its stories. I like your point, but one other Yoda-person WAS shown in the movies: Yaddle, a female of Yoda's species, was seen on the Jedi Council in Episode I. But that was it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I like your point, but one other Yoda-person WAS shown in the movies: Yaddle, a female of Yoda's species, was seen on the Jedi Council in Episode I. But that was it Ah, Episode I... that explains it, lol. Nice catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) This is what I garnered from the OPs post. There were NO restrictions due to alignment or faction. Ever. Was there a preference of many faithful darkside users? Yes Was there a discourangment from the jedi order on synthetic red? Yes Was there some tradition on colors for the Jedi ranks? Not really. You could still choose to carry one of your preference. Did most sith and jedi follow this tradition? Of course. But what about everyone else in the galaxy for blasters, cannons, etc? No Never. There's no written law that says you can't use a syntehtic of any color or red by the Jedi Order. They're all about choices and their outcome. By adding in false restrictions which affect not only the Jedi / Sith but even a smuggler its is lore breaking. A player that wants to play themselves as a loyal Sith or Jedi is going to do what they can to buy a crystal to their preference. But even Luke Skywalker created a synthetic green crystal when his lightsaber was damaged, he chose to give up the more powerful crystal for a traditional one later. There was nothing forcing him too. The worst problem this FAKE restrction causes is it takes away personal choice on whether or not a force user or ANY player wants to stay in line with their order. Most Jedis and even Sith at some point have had to make a choice and someitmes their choice is the right path for them but not really in the eyes of those above them. This is why the balance is always so difficult but balance between light and dark never hunt on the edge of a knife because OMG OBI WAN IS USING RED! GASP. Just because something is prefered or frowned on doesn't automatically mean there's a HUGE rule that must physically restrict a player from getting to make the same choice. Final Conclusion: Physical restrictions on choice = BAD / Lore Break. Edited March 9, 2012 by Kindara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidstne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) what if im all like,.....yeah i killed me a jedi. and i want to put the scarry in other jedis ....so im gonna keep my trophy and use them to kill your other brothers mother. i like blue. Edited March 9, 2012 by solidstne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You've killed your own point. You use the word iconic. Iconic in no way implies restriction. The Jedi and Sith in your examples chose to wield specific color lightsabers. They were not -restricted- by some unseen force that prevented them from wielding another color, they simply did not wish to. A red lightsaber is more frightening than a green or blue one so it makes sense that a Sith would choose to wield it but it is the Sith's choice to do so and for that reason it makes sense that a Jedi would choose not to wield a red lightsaber. We are also talking about a time where blue and green crystals were not readily available for darksiders so they made do with synthetic crystals. Once again, this is not applicable in this game. You have a personal preference just like the characters you've used in your examples had. Most Jedi and Sith would likely adhere to tradition and wield a color that best reflects their order. I am unaware of any rule that says they have to though. There is no reason for you to push your own personal preferences on players who choose to wield a color that is not iconic or traditional for their 'side.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardelia Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The one thing these threads always tend to miss is what BioWare's done in the past. Every contribution to the lexicon is considered EXCEPT the two previous, wildly-successful games that show how crystal color choice was handled in the time period we're playing in. At this point, both sides are constructing arguments that are at least feasible. Which you think is stronger is based on which side you advocate, of course, but it's a safe summary to say that there's a disconnect between what Lucas said and did in the original movies (a known contradictory source), and what's been done in the EU (also a somewhat contradictory source by necessity, as it involves the efforts of dozens of different writers). So, let's look at what BioWare's done in previous KOTOR games. After all, while the game does occupy a genre defined by both the films and the EU, it's first and foremost an MMO sequel to KOTOR and KOTORII; all arguments of what is and isn't canon need to take that into account. No matter which definition of canon you use, BioWare has LONG since established a body of "case law" regarding how saber crystal colors work (and, there's a strong argument that the KOTOR games have contributed more to crystal lore than any other singe source). In KOTOR, while your class determined your original lightsaber color, you could change that color later with no restrictions whatsoever. A 100% LS character could equip a red saber crystal with no alignment penalty, and vice versa. In KOTORII, there were no restrictions whatsoever on color. Why would/should they go against what they've already established and restrict color to alignment now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most of the novels in the EU aren't even considered canon and that pic is not proof of anything except that the person knows how to crop. Gallia progressed through the academy until she graduated and was selected by a Master for one-on-one training. Crafting a lightsaber using a synthetic red crystal, the Corellian woman chose to study a reverse grip style of wielding her weapon. Gallia spent several years with her master, eventually passing the Trials of Knighthood and being elevated to the status of Knight Star Wars: Republic was a series of comics published by Dark Horse Comics. The first issue came out on December 16, 1998. It ran for 83 issues, spanning from before The Phantom Menace to after Revenge of the Sith. It was originally titled simply Star Wars, and acquired its Republic title at issue #46. Starting with issue #49, it became the main Clone Wars comic. It was continued in the Star Wars: Dark Times series, which takes place in the early days of the Galactic Empire, with continuous numeration from the Clone Wars series on the inside cover of each issue beginning with issue #84. Issues of Dark Times are independently numerated on the cover You were saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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