Color Wars!

[Chaede]

I want TOR keep SW in it's name. All colors for all is stupid idea. No SWfan can approve that.

 

I am a SW fan and I am all for it. Proved you and your limited opinion wrong.

 

As has been explained numerous times, TOR is EU lore. In EU lore colour restrictions are pretty much non existant. I find it odd that the OP quote EU lore for his reason and when it is pointed out the flaws in his reasoning he then says to abandon EU law.

 

Seriously, if colour choice is that game breaking for you maybe you need to reset your priorities. This is just a game, a game made by BioWare which has potentially created as much lore as George Lucas originally did.

 

It is a game set thousands of years before the the Trilogy. According to the Trilogy, there was never a time where the rule of two was not in effect for the Sith. Hence we should only allow 2 sith to be played on each server at any one time. Since having more than 2 Sith breaks the original cannon.

 

Of course this is not the Trilogy era but an era mostly created by BioWare and during that era colour restrictions are not really important. Its not so much restrictions but just that certain colours are uncommon.

 

If it is game breaking for you, then is having 1000's of sith running around game breaking? Is having every 1000's of captains for Havoc Squad game breaking? This is equally valid to the 'it should be rare argument.' There should only be one head of Havoc Squad too... makes less sense to have more than 1 of them then it does to have more than 1 Jedi using a red sabre.

 

OP your argument is based on a false premise focused through your bias on the issue. People have pointed out other lore that is equally valid that contradicts your argument. They have also pointed out business model, individual choice and original reason why lightsabres had colours at all arguments.

 

There is no valid argument for why colours are restricted at this time in the lore. Association of Sith = Red and Jedi = Blue/Green may not have even happened at this time and as BioWare pretty much owns the story for TOR period of the SW Universe it is their call to make.

 

You don't have to like it but you do have to deal with it. For instance I dislike that my Jedi is always in a skirt, never pants but you don't see me saying that it is lore breaking because look never wore a skirt.

[OddballEasyEight]

Star Wars doesn't mean red vs green/blue to me. The lightsaber is what's iconic, not the color. There are just too many examples in lore of both sides using whatever color they like.

 

Actually theres not enough examples. Yes there are a few, but theyre few enough to be considered "anomalies".

What will happen now (is already happening) is a huge influx of blue/green lightsabers on the sith side and red lightsabers on the jedi side.

Its breaking up the whole iconic colourscheme that has always been a part of star wars (both EU and movies/tv-shows).

 

Ive never been a proponent of the LS/DS restriction on them, but we need some sort of insentive to get jedi to pick green/blue over red and vice versa for sith.

WHY you ask?

Well because traditionally jedi would use natural crystals that were most commonly green or blue, sometimes yellow. And sith would usually make their own crystals and these were red because when they were created and infused with the dark side of the force they became red. If a sith made his own crystal and it came out blue, he would get a few odd looks from his master i bet... since infusing it with the lightside of the force is the only way of making it blue or green when making a synthetic one.

 

So we need some sort of incentive to use the iconic colours. Ive proposed using a LS/DS bonus when using the "correct" colour... so Red crystals give a bonus to dark side points earned.

Or maby it could just be impossible for dark side characters to create green or blue crystals, hence making them rare and difficult to find on the empire side and vice versa for the republic side.

[Reico]

Is it really?

 

So coming to a star wars game and demanding that they remove or change the very things that define it as star wars isnt selfish, but wanting them to keep the game star wars is?

 

youre being very hypocritical...

 

You can try and spin this any way you want, but the bottom line here is you want a red lightsaber for your jedi (or blue/green for your sith, whatever) and dont care how that breaks star wars lore and tradition, because you want it so its the right thing to do.

 

Guess we should cut out any alien race for empire then. Also no romance options for Jedi since that would be against the code. Oh yeah and people should die in one hit from a saber. Wait I forgot that people didn't rez after dying in the movies so you only get one life now.

 

Man, coming up with stupid ideas for a game is great.

[Caelrie]

Actually theres not enough examples. Yes there are a few, but theyre few enough to be considered "anomalies".

What will happen now (is already happening) is a huge influx of blue/green lightsabers on the sith side and red lightsabers on the jedi side.

 

Balanced out by the fact that 10,000 NPCs on your server use the colors you approve of. That brings it right back to anomaly status even if every player does it.

[Asturias]

Star Wars doesn't mean red vs green/blue to me. The lightsaber is what's iconic, not the color. There are just too many examples in lore of both sides using whatever color they like.

 

So what's happening here is that I'm happy with you using your red saber on your sith, whereas you want to take my saber away. I'm about freedom, you're about control.

 

Those examples are rarity in the EU and exceptions and not the norm. I guess maybe the CG movies of the game should be changed when all those Sith lords and Jedis went at it in the temple, Alderaan and Korriban.

[BurningDT]

Than the pazzaz of the of the game will be lost for a lot of hard core fan. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the game but this is a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

I just don't like how BioWARE is pissing on such iconic symbols to please a minority group that have no clue.

 

Many of us do have a clue, we just don't care.

 

I think a simple solution is restrict them on RP servers. You play an RP server you can only choose the correct lore colors.

 

Then if you really want to play with lore correct colors, join an RP server with people who actually use lorebased names, where you won't see "lukelolol" running around. Let us who just want to play the game for fun play on our regular servers.

Edited March 9, 2012 by BurningDT

[ItchyThePenguin]

Actually theres not enough examples. Yes there are a few, but theyre few enough to be considered "anomalies".

What will happen now (is already happening) is a huge influx of blue/green lightsabers on the sith side and red lightsabers on the jedi side.

Its breaking up the whole iconic colourscheme that has always been a part of star wars (both EU and movies/tv-shows).

 

Erm, so what if they're "anomalies"? Why can't my character be one of the said "anomalies"?

[Asturias]

Please point to the reason that doesn't justify the reasoning (Your words). You need to realize that your reality is not the only one. What you view as immersion breaking many others view as immersion enhancing. If you believe that the sith should only be able to use red then that's fine but from many others perspectives that's absurd. Nothing stops a sith from using a different color lightsaber except tradition and many of us play a sith who doesn't believe in tradition.

 

What you view as the "core" of star wars is not necessarily what others do. That doesn't mean they are lesser fans it just means they disagree and as shown many times in this thread they can cite lore just as well and in many cases better than you can.

 

Believing something doesn't make it right or true.

Than you would be excommunicated from the order just like if any loyal Sith Lord found out you're a revanite. Edited March 9, 2012 by Asturias

[Rilauven]

Instead of restricting the color crystals themselves, Light and Dark aligned lightsabers should be limited in what color crystals they can accept. This would satisfy everyone. if a Lightsider really wants a red lightsaber, he can find an orange one to put his best mods in. My light side smuggler can shoot red blaster bolts all day because no one looks at you funny for shooting red blaster bolts!

[Caelrie]

Those examples are rarity in the EU and exceptions and not the norm. I guess maybe the CG movies of the game should be changed when all those Sith lords and Jedis went at it in the temple, Alderaan and Korriban.

 

They don't need to be the norm. Their mere existence disproves the idea that lore restricts saber colors.

 

ONE EXAMPLE would ruin your call for restriction based on lore, and there's far more than one.

[Chaede]

Those examples are rarity in the EU and exceptions and not the norm. I guess maybe the CG movies of the game should be changed when all those Sith lords and Jedis went at it in the temple, Alderaan and Korriban.

 

Jedi were a rarity in the EU, you also stated disregarded the EU lore earlier or claimed it was only EU so it doesn't matter.

 

Please post a consistent argument that has not been shot down by counter EU lore arguments. Better yet get George Lucas to come on the forums and say you are right because the lore during this period of the SW Universe is pretty much created and dictated by BW which never have faction specific restrictions (except for cyan/purple) on crystals. There were alignment restrictions true, but then a dark jedi was forbidden to use blue green crystals by game mechanics and could not blend in like you say they should have to.

 

This game, nor the KOTOR games, nor any of the lore lore in this period seems to agree with you.

 

I don't understand even if this was against lore for this period you aren't campaigning against all the other things in this game which are against lore.

[Caelrie]

Than you would be excommunicated from the order just like if any loyal Sith Lord found out you're a revanite.

 

The Sith Inquisitor storyline contradicts you. A subtheme of that story is the fight against tradition in the name of progress.

[Norke]

Not to say what Bioware is 100% right the way they did it, but the fact that I can roll a LS sith and have Red Lightsabers or play a LS BH or Smuggler and have red blaster bolts is a relief, Now I can play the game and make the decisions I want without fear of going LS and being stuck with a color I don't want.

 

Telling others how to play their game is stupid and to be honest, quite childish in nature. At the end of the day while there may be a few who want to 'break the game' and want to use an untraditional color for their sith or jedi, in my experience it has been far and few. I think honestly because now that the restrictions are lifted people are trying out something new and in the end we'll start to see conforming happen.

[Abataamala]

That line says it all and you are the exact mold of people that try to justify the reason to break tradition and lore. So than why would you care what color your blade is if your a primary game player.

 

Okay, although you apparently chose to ignore the bulk of my four paragraphs and focus on one sentence, fine...I'll play.

 

As a GAME PLAYER, it was patently unfair to discover that there were components for my weapons that I could have otherwise used, and the ONLY criteria that kept me from doing so was where I happened to fall along the dark/light spectrum. I met the level criterion, the stat criterion, etc.

 

Sure, if I would have had a choice, my Sith would have grabbed an acceptable red crystal. But there were only blue and green. If you're to be consistent, then why even have the color choices predicated on light/dark? Why not strictly by faction? Why can Sith artificers even craft red and blue crystals, if that's the case? For that matter, why can you even harvest color crystals of the opposing side? It was a flawed system from the get-go.

 

I'd dare say in a pinch, if a Jedi was trapped in a corner and the only thing standing between him and survival was a red-bladed lightsabre, chances are said Jedi will jettison any reluctance he may have about the traditional hue of an energy beam in favor of self-preservation. "Any port in a storm" trumps being run roughshod over.

 

And there's still the issue of non-force users even giving a rip about what color bolt comes out of their blasters? Yet they were still under the same artificial "traditions" that their robe-wearing counterparts operated under, and for no logical reason.

 

I still assert this is a very positive decision on the part of BioWare. The alternative would be to re-tool faction, crafting, etc. to line up with "lore." And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Laufton]

Than you would be excommunicated from the order just like if any loyal Sith Lord found out you're a revanite.

Would I? I seem to remember Revan remaining a Jedi after marrying Shan. And it seems to me the sith respect power not cruelty. If I have power and believe in the empire they would probably accept my kindness as just a defect.

[Vecke]

My arguement is not about Light side/dark side choice but that the primary colors that have been established by the movies and countless other media should be exclusive to that faction. The big three need to be exclusive and I don't have a problem with a light sided sith using a Red color saber because lets face it a light sided sith is not really good you just take a different approach to handleing things.

 

Yeah, I understand that, and I agree it should slant in that direction, with a subset of people that go against the standard. My point was that with no restrictions, the game does exactly that. When you factor in the people (like me) that stick to those primary colors and when you factor in the thousands of NPCs in this game that stick to those primary colors, it leaves just one subset that goes against what is traditional. That's how it is in the movies and how it is in the EU and how it'll be in this game.

 

Removing restrictions make it closer to the lore than any restriction, whether faction based or alignment based. I think folks are greatly overestimating the amount of people that will be using red sabers with their jedi, especially when you factor in the NPCs of the game (which is part of the immersion). Asking them to make it physically impossible actually works against what you're asking for. It should be relatively rare, sure, but not having restrictions will make it relatively rare. Having those restrictions make it impossible, which goes against every theme in all versions of canon.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Vecke

[Asturias]

Jedi were a rarity in the EU, you also stated disregarded the EU lore earlier or claimed it was only EU so it doesn't matter.

 

Please post a consistent argument that has not been shot down by counter EU lore arguments. Better yet get George Lucas to come on the forums and say you are right because the lore during this period of the SW Universe is pretty much created and dictated by BW which never have faction specific restrictions (except for cyan/purple) on crystals. There were alignment restrictions true, but then a dark jedi was forbidden to use blue green crystals by game mechanics and could not blend in like you say they should have to.

 

This game, nor the KOTOR games, nor any of the lore lore in this period seems to agree with you.

 

I don't understand even if this was against lore for this period you aren't campaigning against all the other things in this game which are against lore.

 

*** are you talking about, did you even read any thing I wrote or are you to frustrated with the fact that the primary Colors are iconic. I have given prime examples and nothing you have said clearly justifies it other than pointing a finger at, well this Sith lord had this or this guy did it. I gave good enough reasons why it should be restricted and most of you who argue for it clearly state that you don't care about the core fundamentals of the two sides but play the I want card. A lot of you claim to want the colors to RP but really do you?

Edited March 9, 2012 by Asturias

[drmcnasty]

Okay, I'm going to bring this up again...

 

 

Why are we arguing about the colours of our weapons, something that has the littlest of effect on us when we could be focusing our anger/concern on issues such as LFG, server merges, etc?

[Kakachan]

I agree to main post, there is no jedi around in this game with green or blue crystal at endgame... I mean +41 ones, people either use that LT-Blue or Black-Blue, only original blue crystal you can get is drops in kaon behemoth boss you need to extract it from that weapon ant put it into your weapon, I never saw someone use a lightsaber with original colors in this game other than my jedi guardian alt, it is realy shame to see all jedi run around with these weird colors, even there is more red crystals you can see at republic side than original colors... Realy these rare colors should be rare not that common... some end-game bosses at hardest difficulty should drop these rare color crystal/weapons with realy low drop rate, like pre 1.1.5 purple, I dont know I find it very wrong at current state, anyway there is many more important things in this game that waits fix... Edited March 9, 2012 by Kakachan

[Asturias]

Yeah, I understand that, and I agree it should slant in that direction, with a subset of people that go against the standard. My point was that with no restrictions, the game does exactly that. When you factor in the people (like me) that stick to those primary colors and when you factor in the thousands of NPCs in this game that stick to those primary colors, it leaves just one subset that goes against what is traditional. That's how it is in the movies and how it is in the EU and how it'll be in this game.

 

Removing restrictions make it closer to the lore than any restriction, whether faction based or alignment based. I think folks are greatly overestimating the amount of people that will be using red sabers with their jedi, especially when you factor in the NPCs of the game (which is part of the immersion). Asking them to make it physically impossible actually works against what you're asking for. It should be relatively rare, sure, but not having restrictions will make it relatively rare. Having those restrictions make it impossible, which goes against every theme in all versions of canon.

 

Valid points but time will tell.

[NogFizzbin]

Just as long as my sniper rifle burns a hole through the enemy'ss chest, I don't care what color it is.

[drmcnasty]

Just as long as my sniper rifle burns a hole through the enemy'ss chest, I don't care what color it is.

 

 

I wouldn't say chest, face is better

[Vecke]

I agree to main post, there is no jedi around in this game with green or blue crystal at endgame... I mean +41 ones, people either use that LT-Blue or Black-Blue, only original blue crystal you can get is drops in kaon behemoth boss you need to extract it from that weapon ant put it into your weapon, I never saw someone use a lightsaber with original colors in this game other than my jedi guardian alt, it is realy shame to see all jedi run around with these weird colors, even there is more red crystals you can see at republic side than original colors...

 

But up until this change, that was because of the restrictions. The Jedi you saw with Red sabers was because the game didn't allow them to use green. After the change, these same people can now switch to the correct color if they want.

[Asturias]

Would I? I seem to remember Revan remaining a Jedi after marrying Shan. And it seems to me the sith respect power not cruelty. If I have power and believe in the empire they would probably accept my kindness as just a defect.

 

You said enough already to show that you clearly don't know jack, by all means be that Sith.

[Gauvi]

Asturias,

 

Thank you for taking the time to research the info and put up this great post.

 

We need more people like you !