Celwinn Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm an avid follower of f2p MMO's, and quit WoW about 2 years ago and played solely f2p MMO's until SWTOR was released. I can say a few things... Yes - F2P MMO's make money. But no where near as much as a subscription based model. Not by a long long way. SWTOR was not cheap. Infact, it's one of the most expensive video games ever created. Shareholders want a return on their investment (quite rightly so), and they want it ASAP. Subs bring in the most amount of money (provided you hit around 0.4% of your overheads in people subbing). i.e., $120m overheads = 480,000 subscribers needed. Being that they have over double that, they certainly won't be changing anytime soon. f2p games also come in two varieties. There are those that were created purely to be f2p - Vindictus, Allods, Runes of Magic, etc. Then there are those that started out p2p and then made the shift to f2p - Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons, Age of Conan, Star Trek, etc. Those that were always designed to be f2p never usually have the kind of budget to draw in people who have previously played p2p games. At least that would happily keep them playing it for a long. There are exceptions, and also other genre's that don't really exist in the p2p world. League of Legends is probably the most noteworthy of this. Those that make the switch from p2p -> f2p, tend to draw in a lot of players over the first few months. Then, the lack of content without paying simply brings back the previous problems that forced them to turn to a f2p/hybrid model to start with, and people begin quitting again. Either way, if subs drop below 150,000 globally at this time next year, then I'd expect this kind of conversation being batted around the board room. But certainly not now, and certainly not why this game is doing so well. Don't hold any misconceptions, this game has a healthy number of subscribers, is producing a large amount of profit and is doing very well for Bioware. Don't expect f2p anytime soon, or anytime in the next five years really. IF TOR does become F2P, it won't be for a few years. As said in the article, the companies want to gain their money back from production of the game. But my fear is that by the time Bioware/stockholders/EA has broken completely free (which shouldn't be long), the game industry (mainly MMOs) will be going for the F2P path. From the sounds of it though, my fears are misplaced, which is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepMe Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The last 3 F2P games I played.. Requiem, Atlantica Onlilne and Forsaken World cost me a small fortune. Probably could have bought a new car with the money I spent on cash shop items in those games.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Reading this article has me somewhat afraid of what EA would do with TOR in the future. Don't get me wrong, F2P probably makes more revenue for game companies and I totally get why companies would do it, but basically, when you play F2P MMOs, you have to Pay to stay competitive. [/url] There are different ways to do F2P, and the good ones are the ones that are not Pay to Win (Stay competitive), generally the Asian F2P are the pay to win type F2P games. Where as the western MMO that are F2P are Pay for the Content as you go, XP boost potions, aesthetic fluff. The Asian F2P it would be easy to spend more then $15 a month on that, where as for the Western F2P it is easy to stay below $10 a month if you are a casual player, hardcore people would be better off going for the monthly fee on those games. Guild Wars 2, LOTRO, AoC, DDO, DCUO are some of the MMOs that have a good F2P model where you don't have to spend money to stay competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acushla Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is just my Opinion. No, ToR will not be going F2P in the forseeable future. What you MIGHT see is something like what EA has done with Warhammer and Blizzard has done with WoW of making the game free up to a level or planet with progress beyond that requiring subscription but even that is not something you will see at this point in development. It's my opinion that most if not all F2P games successful over the long term are the ones designed F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princey Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Not going to happen. EA doesn't do F2P. No matter what state the game is in, it's not going to happen. Warhammer isn't F2P. Hell, DAoC isn't even F2P and that's been out since 2001 and it has very, very few players remaining. Anyone saying TOR will be F2P within a year is living in a fantasy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viewtifuldee Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Not all F2P games are P2W. I'll admit, there are some, but you really have to try them out before you can make that judgement. For instance, I think PWE and Cryptic did a great job of converting STO to a F2P model. Free players have access to all of the equipment and resources that paying players have. A few others: CoH, CO, DCUO and Aion. Man, there are way too many acronyms in that post. If TOR were to go F2P, we'd probably see things more along the line of 25 dollar hoodless robes and 10 dollar rainbow lightsabers. Or I could see them doing something along the lines of what they've done with Need for Speed World, which is sort of like, pay to get X more quickly than grinding for it. Edited March 7, 2012 by viewtifuldee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I am sure at some point it will, even the big wigs over at Blizzard have said once, going f2p is more profitable than the sub based method, they will make the switch, and when wow makes the switch I am sure we will have seen the possible end of the standard sub based mmo, people end up spending more per month on f2p games than the standard 14.99 they may be paying, it is a cash cow for most companies, DDO and Lotro, now have more subs and people playing than they did when they launched according to Turbine..I wonder how attitudes toward f2p will change when wow, makes the switch. I am just glad American companies did not follow the true asian f2p, with the play to win models, most stuff here is just fluff and new areas to play. Edited March 7, 2012 by kevlarto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am sure at some point it will, even the big wigs over at Blizzard have said once, going f2p is more profitable than the sub based method, they will make the switch, and when wow makes the switch I am sure we will have seen the possible end of the standard sub based mmo I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If SW:Tor goes F2P im out. Unless they manage to do a good System like League of Legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am sure at some point it will, even the big wigs over at Blizzard have said once, going f2p is more profitable than the sub based method, they will make the switch, and when wow makes the switch I am sure we will have seen the possible end of the standard sub based mmo, people end up spending more per month on f2p games than the standard 14.99 they may be paying, it is a cash cow for most companies, DDO and Lotro, now have more subs and people playing than they did when they launched according to Turbine..I wonder how attitudes toward f2p will change when wow, makes the switch. I am just glad American companies did not follow the true asian f2p, with the play to win models, most stuff here is just fluff and new areas to play. I remember a LOTRO developer stating that nearly all their non subscribing, but paying members spend less then $10 per month, with a few rare exceptions of people paying more then $15 a month. Also remember in an article talking about F2P games, the ones that start at F2P, they found out that the average big spenders were paying $20 a month, but the average player was still spending less then $10 per month, with a rare few that spent more then $20 per month. These f2p games don't make the money mainly because people are spending more then $15 a month, it is because they make money by volume, they have millions upon millions spending a little bit. It is false that people generally spend more then $15 a month in a f2p game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeia Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I remember when LotRO announced it would be F2P, I was dabbling in Fallen Earth at the time. A very similar topic was discussed there: would Fallen Earth go F2P. I posted that it would and I was flamed every which way round! I still chuckle now when I remember that thread. It's rather nice to be proved right I've no issue with LotRO being F2P and have no objection to buying items in the store. In fact I've probably paid more than any monthly sub, even though I have the advantage of being a VIP player. In this time of recession I know of several gamers who can't pay a sub, mortgages, family expenses etc mean that game subs comes way down on the list. So will SWTOR be F2P in a year? I'd say there is a very good chance of it and I think it could be a very good thing. Edit: If SWG had been able to go F2P, I'd still be playing and I suspect that many more would be too. Edited March 7, 2012 by Jeia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Gaming Industry shifts more to F2P. Will TOR follow? Yes Well, that settles it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have a lifetime subscription to lotro but have not played since it went f2p. I want to check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Gaming Industry shifts more to F2P. Will TOR follow? No Oh wait, no, this settles it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotpar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) F2P/ Pay2Win is AWFUL, make it either truly free or charge a monthly fee, considering P2P games usually go F2P when they lack subscribers, it is also a pretty good way to lose the few remaining loyal players they have. TOR is obviously in a good shape at the moment and I hope this won't happen in the short to mid term. Especially considering they're planing "more story" ( an expansion ) for "this year" ( the holiday season ) which will bring in additional revenue and probably some new/ renewed subscriptions. F2P =/= Pay2Win. Good free to play models are in effect, and have been very profitable. Possibly the best example currently is league of legends. It's completely free to play, but the store does not allow you to buy any power, instead all real money things are optional(skins and runepages), or playable champions. Riot stated that it's important to never sell direct power from a store, so they won't, and never will. There's absolutely no reason why Bioware couldn't do this. In the store they can sell orange gear without mods, XP boosts, real life items, and certain services like server transfer, race change etc. Just about anything that isn't like "buy best weapon for 10 bucks!". There are a lot of options, and trust me, people don't need this stuff to give power as a motivation to buy it, because people love cosmetic and quality of life stuff. I'm not saying SWTOR has to go free to play, but if they have to, they have a lot of options to sell without actually having to sell power. I actually expect them to try both subscription and microtransactions, just like Blizzard did. Edited March 7, 2012 by Grotpar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JobuNabidabi Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 EA recently had a shareholder conference call in which they stated that they would be following the F2P business model. The transcript of the call and Q&A is very interesting. Electronic Arts (EA) Q3 2012 Earnings Call February 1, 2012 5:00 PM ET Here is the conference transcript. http://seekingalpha.com/article/333912-electronic-arts-ceo-discusses-q3-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript Here is the Q&A transcript. http://seekingalpha.com/article/333912-electronic-arts-ceo-discusses-q3-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=qanda More information from the EA website. http://investor.ea.com/ John S. Riccitiello - Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director "It's reason that we've pushed so hard to become a player in social and mobile in addition to our packaged goods business. It's a reason that we're pushing the play-for-free model. Is we are trying to aggregate the eyeballs, minds and wallets of gamers around the globe." Peter C. Ausnit - Vice President of Investor Relations "Yes, just to add to that. The real growth is freemium. As John said, we shipped Sims FreePlay, FIFA Superstars, Theme Park and as we've spoken about on the GREE platform in Japan, FIFA World Class Soccer. That title in particular is a big breakthrough for us because the FIFA franchise has had difficulty in the Japanese market, competing for a number of reasons, and this is a major breakthrough for us. So freemium is where our growth is. You're going to see continued growth on that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 F2P, isn't that the universal code for "we're desperate and need to draw in new players"? No, F2P is a method of monetizing the players such that they end up making more than they would if they'd been pay to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The correct answer to OP's question is NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 EA apparently does not do F2P, so no. Except the upcoming EA / Mythic / Bioware title Wrath of Heroes is Free to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathnasty Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 F2P is actually very profitable. I can see the whole genre going F2P in the future like China does. Games that should've gone F2p and never did: Planetside EQ1 (guessing this is happening soon) WoW Warhammer Aion Aion IS FTP this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickXIV Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 F2P games, by definition, have to shift focus from content development to shiny trinket development. If you thought all of Blizzard's bought coemetic items were lame, imagine if that suddenly became one of the bigger parts of content patch notes: Patch 2.3 Has Arrived! Added purple, black, and white manta landspeeders, now only $25! Adorn your ship with a fireplace, complete with a Tauntaun rug and mounted Rancor head for just $15! Also theres some new generic boss in an old flashpoint or something. I would totally buy both of those things if they were offered, but I sure as hell don't want them to be BioWare's only source of income and thus a larger focus than they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timtimbot Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Has Warhammer Online gone to F2P yet? Arguably one of the worst launched MMO of our generation behind only Asheron's Call 2. Has it gone F2P yet? If not then why would TOR ever go F2P... one of the most successful launches in gaming history (think subscriberships not bugs or people who are or going to quit) I'm asking a serious question because i don't know. I would like to play Warhammer Online again... heard is was good now but don't want to pay $16 a month Since I am still paying for my 7 WOW accounts plus 1 SWTOR account. Drop some WoW Accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efylinx Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 "F2P is a lie, there is only profit." The #1 duty of a corporation is to make profit, that's actually mandated by law. F2P is a misnomer for Pay-in-small-chunks-so-that-you-don't-see-how-much-you're-spending-per-month. Does it work? It depends on the implementation, most games that convert to F2P start off with a cash shop that seems reasonably harmless to the overall competitive gameplay (i.e. nothing in there would render a rich guy more competitive than a poor player). Then slowly they add in more "must-have" items, and even at times make their normal game updates a paid commodity (look at LOTRO, adding more and more items that are effectively "must-haves"). It's no different than a cell phone contract, pay a flat fee every month and you get all the benefits compared to pay nothing and you only get 10 minutes per month, you want voicemail? pay up. Call display? pay up. More minutes? Add all those in and you will most definitely pay more than what you were paying with just the clear flat fee (they have to charge more, because not only are you paying for your own services but also to support the system from others who refuse to pay a penny - no MMO goes free to pay to make less money after all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawginole Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If FFXIV is holding out and being able to support a P2P model then there is absolutely no reason why a game like SWTOR would ever need to go to F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSA_shadow Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 How many threads do we need on this a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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