ferroz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 WoW content and classes are designed with addon use in mind, so it's somewhere between nonsense and uselessly hypothetical to talk about playing it without addons. There is no "type of player" that uses addons in WoW, not anymore than there's a "type of player" that builds worker units in RTS, or uses companions while soloing in SWTOR.I still know plenty of people who play wow and don't use any addons. It's never stopped them from getting groups, or raiding. Also people need to stop conflating "using damage meters to evaluate performance" with "relying on addons to play your character". These are completely different things, and the conflation of them speaks of dishonesty, or fear.The people who are doing that are going for the combo of strawman + ad hominem... since that's a lot easier than coming up with an objective argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBull Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Once again THEY NEVER SAID "JUST YOUR LOGS" or "YOUR LOGS ONLY." this is a text book case of taking out of context. BioWare you need blue posters, or Yellow posters or something for situations like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ray Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 simple answer to the poll, No! Simple answer to the thread, worry about your own damn stats and leave other players alone! Sheesh can it be more simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Once again THEY NEVER SAID "JUST YOUR LOGS" or "YOUR LOGS ONLY." this is a text book case of taking out of context. BioWare you need blue posters, or Yellow posters or something for situations like this. The context actually implied that players would only see what their character did in combat meaning they meant personal combat logs. What needs to be understood by those wanting group-wide combat logs is that they are only needed by, at best, 5% of the playerbase, and the other 95% of the player base can get by just fine with personal combat logs only. Edited March 7, 2012 by terminova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Combat logs serve important for the future of DPS meters, threat meters and all around important additions that will help improve the overall performance of players, knowledge of players and most importantly CONTROL of your character. Very true, but you don't need to have access to that information in-game if you simply have it for personal use. What Bioware is basically saying here is that it is WRONG to kick someone from a team based upon their DPS or other stat being below a standard defined by the leader. That is why you need to exit the game and parse the information into spreadsheets to view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) no, I'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said there, so there's no irony involved. 1. Ironic that he's asking his detractors to do something that he seems utterly incapable of doing. 2. Learn the meaning of 'ironic'. On topic. Not that I'm against a personal damage meter of sorts, but is it at all possible for those of you asking for this feature or that feature to just allow this game to be what it is, instead of trying to morph it into something else? It seems that for the most part people are so used to certain features in other games they have to take their luggage to every other MMO they play. Edited March 7, 2012 by Englefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 NO. we do not need dps meter spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Once again THEY NEVER SAID "JUST YOUR LOGS" or "YOUR LOGS ONLY." this is a text book case of taking out of context. BioWare you need blue posters, or Yellow posters or something for situations like this. Finally, I'd like to acknowledge, again, that we do understand that there is a desire for players to get more detailed information what happens to their character in combat. We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance. Thanks for your feedback! -- Georg With 1.2 you will be able to enable a chat log feature that indicates what killed you or what you killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) every time this gets brought up by the same couple people all i see is: X - Player 1 - 125,000 dmg 1000 dps X - Player 2 - 95,000 dmg 750 dps X - Player 3 - 65,000 dmg 500 dps X - Player 4 - 25,000 dmg 100 dps X - *** PLAYER 1 IS CARRY THE GROUP, YOU OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO PLAY, THIS IS PATHETIC, IM KICKING ALL OF YOU LOSERS FOR SOME REAL DPS --you have been removed from the group me - dude i had to use the bathroom... Edited March 7, 2012 by -Fritz- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidence Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You got personal logs so that you can see how you are doing? What more do you need? Personally I really like the decision BW has made with only showing me mine, I like it. I want to CHOOSE who can see how I am doing. I agree and wasnt it these same players who said they would be happy with personal logs and now they get it and are not happy? Who would have thought? /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lashknife Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) every time this gets brought up by the same couple people all i see is: X - Player 1 - 125,000 dmg 1000 dps X - Player 2 - 95,000 dmg 750 dps X - Player 3 - 65,000 dmg 500 dps X - Player 4 - 25,000 dmg 100 dps X - *** PLAYER 1 IS CARRY THE GROUP, YOU OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO PLAY, THIS IS PATHETIC, IM KICKING ALL OF YOU LOSERS FOR SOME REAL DPS --you have been removed from the group me - dude i had to use the bathroom... If you used the bathroom in the middle of the fight, then you deserve to be kicked. I'm all for DPS meters. Edited March 7, 2012 by Lashknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuNieK Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 the hell? Is that true? They still dont want people to compare their performance with others? Whats the point of planning stats, gearing and doing your best to have best performance when you cant even compare how are you doing in comparision with others in group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farho Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I still know plenty of people who play wow and don't use any addons. It's never stopped them from getting groups, or raiding. This can only be possible after Cataclysm launched. Before that any boss movement, phase change etc. were notified by addons only. Not to mention in game voice chat which was introduced with WotLK. First off I'm against threat meters, it removes the challenge. About the DPS/heal meters, think of this scenario. You play a watchman sentinel and do X dps in a given boss fight while another player does 2X with the same build. (This is no imaginary scenario as I've seen many people do 3-4 times more dps before in other games.) ONLY if you can see this, you can find out that there's room to improve yourself. At the end it comes to the point where all dps from the same class do more or less the same dps with minor differences from gear. At that point the class differences become apparent. And people start to ask for balance. BW may be escaping from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you used the bathroom in the middle of the fight, then you deserve to be kicked. I'm all for DPS meters. see the blind elitism in its fullest. he didnt even bother to look at my fake dps meter spam. slot 3 and 4 are obviously the tank and healer, derp. thanks for playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonguy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) the hell? Is that true? They still dont want people to compare their performance with others? Whats the point of planning stats, gearing and doing your best to have best performance when you cant even compare how are you doing in comparision with others in group? What's the point of playing if you can't be more leet than someone else? To have fun, I already know I'm better than a lot of people Logs, no logs ... either way is fine with me. Edited March 7, 2012 by spoonguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lashknife Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 see the blind elitism in its fullest. he didnt even bother to look at my fake dps meter spam. slot 3 and 4 are obviously the tank and healer, derp. thanks for playing! I did look at the fake DPS spam. I ignored it and went for your 'reason'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidence Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So you want to be carried? If that player is never shown that his dps sucks how will he know he needs to improve? Damage meters teach. Do you really think it's fair that 7 players in a pug are being held back because one of their 8 either doesn't know how to play or is slacking? By the way you're thinking you encourage slacking and bad playing. Why is it when someone says NO to combat logs they are baddies/fail trying to get carried? Everytime? If you wanna go that route then everyone who wants combat logs must be a elite ***** amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I did look at the fake DPS spam. I ignored it and went for your 'reason'. oh so you ignored the logic and went for the illogical reason to flame. and you think this makes you someone people should listen to? right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lashknife Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 oh so you ignored the logic and went for the illogical reason to flame. and you think this makes you someone people should listen to? right on. Your hypothetical scenario has you doing 25% less DPS because you went AFK (to go to the bathroom of all things) in the middle of the fight without saying anything to anyone. That is far worse than doing less DPS, because it's flat out rude. Go before or after the fights, not during. If the group kicks you then as a result, then the fault is on them. However, in your poorly written hypothetical, it's on you. People of your mindset are the real problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berika Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I vote NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This can only be possible after Cataclysm launched. Before that any boss movement, phase change etc. were notified by addons only. Not to mention in game voice chat which was introduced with WotLK.No, they were doing that both during cataclysm and long before it. At least 30% people in my LK kill that weren't using any addons; I know 50% were; the remaining 20% I'm unsure whether they were using addons or not. The addons that notify of phase changes use in game information to do so... they don't just conjure that info out of the aether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 They already ARE giving us real combat logs. I mean. They Already Are Giving Us Real Combat Logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 1. Ironic that he's asking his detractors to do something that he seems utterly incapable of doing.That's not actually ironic. You could call that hypocritical, but it's not ironic. 2. Learn the meaning of 'ironic'.I'm familiar with the meaning of the word. It seems that for the most part people are so used to certain features in other games they have to take their luggage to every other MMO they play.People expect the good features that they've seen in MMO's for more than a decade; when an MMO is released that lacks one of those features, it's quite understandable that people will ask for those to be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 They already ARE giving us real combat logs. I mean. They Already Are Giving Us Real Combat Logs.We don't actually know what they're giving us; they've been intentionally vague about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 well when they get done making swiss cheese of the conversation by removing every other post nothing makes sense anymore, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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