Bio says no to macros at Guild Summit.

[RadricTycho]

I had to quote it 3 times because theres so much truth in it.

 

Actually it is totally false. There are free to download software alternatives that allow you to remap keys on your keyboard. You don't need hardware and you don't need money to perform the kind of "macros" you all are talking about.

 

Real macros would actually take into account the in-game state of the character, conditional execution, etc. What everyone is talking about here is really little more than buttons that send multiple button clicks.

 

And the truth is that even if there were macros, the playing field would not be leveled because the same barrier that prevents players from setting up sophisticated keybinds would also make them incapable of writing macros.

[Ratbear]

Ah, so by your reasoning because someone has and is willing to spend more money that they earned they don't deserve what they're buying, unless everyone can have it?

 

Gotcha.

 

Don't you have an Occupy sit-in to attend?

 

 

No. But if bioware is going to take this kind of stance on the issue then they need to be upfront whether this game is going to be a balanced one, or if its going to be a pay to win game.

 

bioware and ea needs to rethink decisions like this very carefully because selling increased performance that everybody should have is a F2P feature, not a sub based mmo feature.

[Frostvein]

Does that overpriced new SWTOR themed gaming mouse allow hardware macros?

 

Sure does. For only 3 times the cost of another keyboard/mouse that will do the same exact thing no less.

[Ebbikenezer]

Sure does. For only 3 times the cost of another keyboard/mouse that will do the same exact thing no less.

 

And I bet you're blaming BW for the cost?

 

/snicker

 

Anything overpriced with SW on it you can thank Lucas Arts and George Lucas for..... he gets a sizable sum from everything sold with any SW related material on it.

[Kaskava]

No doubt - I have macros right now. I guess those of us with the "right" hardware will continue to enjoy an advantage. Doesn't seem fair...

 

I'm really starting to doubt that the BW team has any real "gamers" on it. Designing games and playing them are two entirely different things. In WoW the devs also play different classes - I wonder what James plays? I'm betting on Sorc... lol

 

I'm willing to bet that none of them play a tank. 'Cuz, ya know, we all enjoy having our quickslots filled to the brim with our CDs. I hear having a **** ton of key bindings makes you good @ life.

[Pekish]

"having more powerfull computer" "better internet connection" and "buying gold on line"does the same???

 

what's the point here?

 

blame their $$ if you want but MACRO ARE ESPLICITLY NOT PERMITTED so i wouldn't blame their money but their MORALITY as they are cheating and they know it

 

it's not a problem of cash here it's a problem of people not able to play by the RULE

Edited March 6, 2012 by Pekish

[Kaskava]

Ah, so by your reasoning because someone has and is willing to spend more money that they earned they don't deserve what they're buying, unless everyone can have it?

 

Gotcha.

 

Don't you have an Occupy sit-in to attend?

 

Next stop: Pay to win Micro Transactions.

[Ozzone]

Next stop: Pay to win Micro Transactions.

 

So BW doesn't want players to macro combat? No problem. There's always a workaround.

 

Razer Naga Mouse

[Asavar]

they said no combat macros, not "no macros". i imagine we'll eventually see macros for emotes, readycheck, /say, etc... eventually

 

This.

 

Thank god there's no combat macros.

[_gideon]

Ah, so by your reasoning because someone has and is willing to spend more money that they earned they don't deserve what they're buying, unless everyone can have it?

 

Gotcha.

 

Don't you have an Occupy sit-in to attend?

 

On the contrary. I own a Naga myself. I bought it because I felt I needed another ~14 buttons to bind to my overloaded bars. I'd recommend it to anyone.

 

The argument is not that people don't deserve nice things. It is that skill should always be more important than a sleek mouse and that the notion of macros creating a barrier to entry falls apart when people just use even more technical (software based) or paid-for (hardware based) external macros.

 

If Bioware is to control how macros are used in their game they need to be the ones to implement the macro system. If barrier to entry is such a concern then they can create a simple drag and drop gui for building simple macros.

Edited March 6, 2012 by _gideon

[Meldwyn]

The more user defined the experience, the longer the sub, imo.

[Ebbikenezer]

Next stop: Pay to win Micro Transactions.

 

It's not even a remotely close comparison, you're comparing Bioware not putting in-combat macros into their game, so people buying KB/Mice that do it.... to people paying Bioware to ease their play time.

 

Also: Every worthless sack out there is going to find any way they can to exploit their way to riches and rank, so it really is a moot point. They put in-combat macros in, someone will find the path of least resistance for one-button instant cred farming/max ranking success. They don't put them in and people will buy the hardware to do as much as they can. At the end of the day at least Bioware isn't the one responsible for introducing the issues by opening the can of worms to begin with....

 

As far as Pay-to-Win transactions: It already exists in the form of Multi-boxing on WoW. Some people pay $75 and more per month for their multiple subs with KB/Mice controlling all characters at the same time, and they explode people all over BGs left and right, so those transactions already exist in multiple games, they have been introduced via multiboxing, and crying because you want the same thing for what you pay is acceptable?

 

Psshhhh. See above: Go to the Occupy sit-ins and cry about the inequality of your monetary situation in life, no reason to bring it to gaming forums.

[Kaskava]

So BW doesn't want players to macro combat? No problem. There's always a workaround.

 

Razer Naga Mouse

 

Already have one. However, if that's going to be BioWare's counter, what's to stop them from adding in Pay to win bonuses? After all, I bought a Naga. Oh, wait, they're kind of already in with the TOR mouse and keyboard. Funny how they'll go out of their way to provide more incentives there, without simply enabling the functionality for everyone.

 

That said, I can only reach keys 1-7 comfortably, so I have things spread out, and in different areas, and with different bindings. Because, as a tank, I clearly enjoy having everything spread the **** out.

[Frostvein]

And I bet you're blaming BW for the cost?

 

/snicker

 

Anything overpriced with SW on it you can thank Lucas Arts and George Lucas for..... he gets a sizable sum from everything sold with any SW related material on it.

 

I didn't blame anyone. I said it was ridiculously overpriced. It is.

[Icebaron]

You anti-macro, anti-arena, anti-LFG people are the reason this game is dying and doomed. Grats, you finally got a game you like, too bad nobody else likes it.

[MGriffith]

I'm really starting to doubt that the BW team has any real "gamers" on it.

 

That really rather depends on what you consider 'real'

 

If it is trying to eke out the last tiny advantage out of the game, optimising your attack sequence 6 places behind the comma.

or

Playing the game with a focus on experiencing the story and game world that is presented by the game.

 

Both groups will consider themselves to be the 'real' gamers, and view the other group as a bit of a bunch of posers.

 

 

The 'no combat macro' stance by Bioware indicates that they do not feel that the first approach to gaming is one they want to encourage with their game. Considering that the selling point of SW:TOR is the story and the fact that the game is about the journey from the start to level 50 and the end of the story, that seems to me a reasonable position for them to take.

[islander]

While I don't know what BW's specific reasons are for not developing macros, I can guess. After having played 3 classes to 50, I am starting to see the issue. Some of the classes would benefit greatly from macros (Sith Warrior springs to mind) while other classes would not (BH Mercenary for example).

 

While it can be argued that even the Merc could benefit to some small extent, it wouldn't be to the level of Sith Warrior. So, by adding in combat macros, they would be favoring certain classes over others.

 

The reason I think the two are different is this:

 

The Sith Warrior combat mechanic is rage which is something he builds and uses. Because of this most warrior skills could be prioritized by ordering them from most damaging and highest rage cost down to most rage generating. Skills which depend on state of the opponent could be prioritized at the front. Using this system one could just about create a one button warrior.

 

On the other hand Mercenary is more fickle. Since his mechanic is heat (a negative) and more heat starts to negatively impact his DPS or healing potential, he cannot just mash one button since this could never be nuanced enough to account for his current heat situation. Further, the mercenary has a few mechanics that depend on the buff/debuff level he has achieved through his skills. Thus the mercenary would have to use at best several macros, and in the end he is almost certainly better off just selecting his skills manually.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

This makes a lot of sense, actually.

[Disasterbator]

I always find it funny reading these forums, that when some feature is not in SWTOR that is in other games, the self-entitled, non-contributors come out of the woodwork to cry about something that, at the end of the day, dosent even exsist.

 

I feel variety in gaming is a blessing nowadays. It's interesting that the second some gamers are out of their comfort zone (ie: game mechanics being different from one game to another) , they assume an attitude akin to someone who has been wrong done by..... bizzare.

[Kaskava]

It's not even a remotely close comparison, you're comparing Bioware not putting in-combat macros into their game, so people buying KB/Mice that do it.... to people paying Bioware to ease their play time.

 

A portion of what Razer makes no doubt goes to BioWare, so they're already doing that to provide more incentives to buy the keyboard/mouse.

 

Also: Every worthless sack out there is going to find any way they can to exploit their way to riches and rank, so it really is a moot point.

 

People are always going to do that. So, by that logic, why bother balancing/combating anything, ever.

 

They put in-combat macros in, someone will find the path of least resistance for one-button instant cred farming/max ranking success.

 

Not if BioWare work on their over-all functionality. Does my being able to have a med-pack/Invincible macro automatically mean that someone else is going to be able to make a one-button rotation macro? I certainly hope not, I would question BioWare's ability to balance anything at that point.

 

They don't put them in and people will buy the hardware to do as much as they can. At the end of the day at least Bioware isn't the one responsible for introducing the issues by opening the can of worms to begin with....

 

They don't put them in, so people will buy things like the licensed hardware which means more money straight into BioWare's pocket. Still not seeing how this isn't coming dangerously close to taking the jump into mts. Just because games like Rift had poor macro execution, doesn't mean all companies will.

 

Besides, by your own logic, what's to stop someone from having found a way to do that already?

 

As far as Pay-to-Win transactions: It already exists in the form of Multi-boxing on WoW.

 

And a lot of people don't like it.

 

Some people pay $75 and more per month for their multiple subs with KB/Mice controlling all characters at the same time, and they explode people all over BGs left and right, so those transactions already exist in multiple games, they have been introduced via multiboxing, and crying because you want the same thing for what you pay is acceptable?

 

No, I want to be able to have a more condescend set of action bars. I don't want one-button-win macros, at all.

 

Psshhhh. See above: Go to the Occupy sit-ins and cry about the inequality of your monetary situation in life, no reason to bring it to gaming forums.

 

Sounds to me like you actually support the practice, and wouldn't care if they introduced things like Pay-to-win MTs.

[Kelsion]

BTW .... I wanted to be clear from my last post. I don't like macros. In the past, I have found them to be neccessary to be competitive in games like WOW where everyone was using them. A split second or need to push even one more button than your enemy can mean disaster when they are using macros and you aren't.

 

I don't use any peripherals myself. I have the stock mouse and keyboard that came with my computer. No programable buttons. I consistently do 7-8 medals in WZs, 40-50 kills, plenty of objective points, top 3-5 in damage done, etc ... It feels good to know that I don't have any help and am doing well. It really lets you know when you know your class and when you don't.

 

I don't have an issue with the macros either way. I don't really want them, but I would not QQ if they added them. The ONLY problem I have is with some having the advantage and others not. By not having the macros and not finding a way to neutralize the advantage of programable peripherals, they are encouraging the "I have to buy all these expensive hardware items to be competitive" mentality.

 

To be perfectly honest, once the rated war zones start, I will feel like I have to have the naga/nostromo/G501 etc .. in order to be competitive with all those people that already have them. Once the rank system starts, we have more to lose from losing matches.

[Kaskava]

The 'no combat macro' stance by Bioware indicates that they do not feel that the first approach to gaming is one they want to encourage with their game. Considering that the selling point of SW:TOR is the story and the fact that the game is about the journey from the start to level 50 and the end of the story, that seems to me a reasonable position for them to take.

 

Exxcept that they clearly do. You know, wit licensed products and all that, which support macros.

[Nmaharg]

Buy a razor naga and you have all the macros you could ever want.

[Icebaron]

Maybe Razor is paying Bioware to keep macros out of their game.....

 

/tinfoil hat

[Ebbikenezer]

Exxcept that they clearly do. You know, wit licensed products and all that, which support macros.

 

You would most likely run any business you were put in charge of far, far into the ground.

 

Sure they want to make money.

 

Are they denying macros to make money? No. But you'll never see it that way, because your level of thinking is just not on theirs.

 

You simply look at licensed products as an answer to anything they don''t give you, and they must be trying to rip you off.

 

Hope you don't have ANY licensed products ANYWHERE in, on, around your person or home, because it would simply make you a walking hypocrisy.

 

The KB/Mouse route is one people are welcome to take, they can also decide not to... MOST MMO gamers who half enjoy the games they play have some sort of decent gaming peripheral setup anyhow, and would have no need for further investments.

 

You're simply crying at this point, because you keep going back around to the tail you already have in your mouth about the Razer products when this is a discussion thread about the use of in-game macros, and Bioware's stance on them.

 

No one is denying you what every other one of us has available. We are all on equal ground in this game, nothing is unfair, nothing favors anyone over someone else. The decisions YOU make are what hold you back, NOT the game developers.

[Mergon]

-Combat macros makes combat easier

-When one group has easier combat and another doesn't (macro-users vs. non-macro-users), balancing content to work with both groups becomes impossible.

 

If BW is unwilling to implement ingame macros, they need to block the use of external, macro-enabled hardware (keyboards and mice). After all, that's why most of the anti-macro protestors are against them for. Unfair advantage? I say they are hypocrites . . .