Bio says no to macros at Guild Summit.

[Tinasa]

I'm so happy to hear that Combat Macros won't be seen anytime soon in the game. However, I don't think all macro's should be judged equally. I hope we will see some shortcuts to using other things, that could benefit from macros or some other mechanic for their use.

[GreymaneAlpha]

It's extremely depressing that they won't allow macros in this game. It's an easy excuse for them to not do any extra work, and for them to continue to make the game "Hard" via "players fight the UI" instead of difficult via "players fight each other, or fight the scripted encounters".

 

It's transparent and pathetic.

[Kelsion]

Buy a razor naga and you have all the macros you could ever want.

 

This is the point that we are making. You shouldn't have to buy extra things to be competitive. That is a function of a Pay-to-Win game. In a subscription based game, you are supposed to pay your fee each month and then have the same features as everyone else. We already know that BW benefits from the sale of the gaming peripherals that SWTOR supports. This is as close to P2W as you can get without actually calling it that.

 

They are basically saying, "You can't have macros included with your subscription fees, but you can have them if you buy a gaming peripheral."

 

Then the poke Razr with their elbow and say, "Now what is our cut again?"

[Frostvein]

The KB/Mouse route is one people are welcome to take, they can also decide not to... MOST MMO gamers who half enjoy the games they play have some sort of decent gaming peripheral setup anyhow, and would have no need for further investments..

 

And here in lies the part in which you shoot yourself in the foot -

 

 

If "Most" MMO gamers have them, then why shouldn't they be in game, readily available for everyone?

[cipher_nemo]

If BW is unwilling to implement ingame macros, they need to block the use of external, macro-enabled hardware (keyboards and mice). After all, that's why most of the anti-macro protestors are against them for. Unfair advantage? I say they are hypocrites . . .

 

Won't happen. You can block software (ie: Logitech Gaming Software to control G keyboards), but you can't block hardware (ie: macro keyboards with built-in memory). On top of that anyone can use macro software on their own and change the executable any way they like to bypass pre-set blocking (like cruddy Korean and Chinese MMOs). So if you can't block it all, why bother blocking part of it?

 

One example of how I use macros:

 

Put up a force armor on all members of my party. I use the keybindings to target specific members, then my shield keybinding to cast it. With a full 1.0 second ability buffer you can configure in the TOR client, I could easily just press keys to target 1st party member, cast force armor, target 2nd party member, cast force armor, etc. right before a group battle. But it's tedious. So I can macro it with something like AutoHotkey and bind it to a specific key (ie: R or T). It's not an exploit, it's done before combat, and it doesn't circumvent anything. It just makes shielding up before battle less tedious.

 

Yet Bioware doesn't want us adding macros in the client, even just for simple /slash commands like every other MMO?

 

I sort of chuckle at that. They're just hurting the casual gamer who doesn't want to learn scripting and macro creation like I have.

Edited March 6, 2012 by cipher_nemo

[Ebbikenezer]

And here in lies the part in which you shoot yourself in the foot -

 

 

If "Most" MMO gamers have them, then why shouldn't they be in game, readily available for everyone?

 

Why do they need to add something we already have?

 

Also: How can they add hardware to the game?

 

Does it teleport through a download? O.o NEAT I AM GETTING ANOTHER SUB!

Edited March 6, 2012 by Ebbikenezer

[nadokaoh]

And here in lies the part in which you shoot yourself in the foot -

 

 

If "Most" MMO gamers have them, then why shouldn't they be in game, readily available for everyone?

 

why waste time making them if everyone already have them

[Kaskava]

You would most likely run any business you were put in charge of far, far into the ground.

 

Sure they want to make money.

 

Are they denying macros to make money? No. But you'll never see it that way, because your level of thinking is just not on theirs.

 

You simply look at licensed products as an answer to anything they don''t give you, and they must be trying to rip you off.

 

Hope you don't have ANY licensed products ANYWHERE in, on, around your person or home, because it would simply make you a walking hypocrisy.

 

The KB/Mouse route is one people are welcome to take, they can also decide not to... MOST MMO gamers who half enjoy the games they play have some sort of decent gaming peripheral setup anyhow, and would have no need for further investments.

 

You're simply crying at this point, because you keep going back around to the tail you already have in your mouth about the Razer products when this is a discussion thread about the use of in-game macros, and Bioware's stance on them.

 

No one is denying you what every other one of us has available. We are all on equal ground in this game, nothing is unfair, nothing favors anyone over someone else. The decisions YOU make are what hold you back, NOT the game developers.

 

I'm not saying they're denying macros at all for any reason. Just the opposite, I'm saying they're supporting macros, without supporting macros. But they're denying something in game, for whatever reason, while still allowing it just so long as you buy something extra.

 

Why, exactly, are they doing that? Can't be for balance reasons, otherwise they'd ban it outright. Or allow in-game, in-combat. They're doing neither. So, what the hell are they doing? Frankly, I'm starting to agree with everyone saying they just don't want to do the work.

 

Yeah, I could go buy the TOR keyboard. Wouldn't have anywhere to put it, but I could. That doesn't answer the question, though, of why it isn't in the game. Then no one would have a reason to cry about macros, unless they devolved into one-button-winfests. As it stands, I still don't see how someone couldn't find a way to do that now.

[Kaskava]

why waste time making them if everyone already have them

 

If everyone already had it, then there wouldn't be any argument.

[Frostvein]

Why do they need to add something we already have?

 

Also: How can they add hardware to the game?

 

Does it teleport through a download? O.o NEAT I AM GETTING ANOTHER SUB!

 

Come on, either debate the points intelligently or don't debate them at all.

 

You have no clue how many people have extended peripherals. Could be 5%. 50%. 70%.

 

They can add the functionality to the game so that the impact of outside keyboards/mice is negated. This isn't something they are incapable of doing.

[Kaskava]

I'm so happy to hear that Combat Macros won't be seen anytime soon in the game. However, I don't think all macro's should be judged equally. I hope we will see some shortcuts to using other things, that could benefit from macros or some other mechanic for their use.

 

Surprise! They already are. You just have to buy something externally.

[Kaskava]

Come on, either debate the points intelligently or don't debate them at all.

 

You have no clue how many people have extended peripherals. Could be 5%. 50%. 70%.

 

They can add the functionality to the game so that the impact of outside keyboards/mice is negated. This isn't something they are incapable of doing.

 

Capability and willingness are two different things. At this point, I'm think they just don't want. Hopefully we'll see them sometime down the line.

 

Maybe I'm just bitter about my massive issues with Mass Effect 3, and taking it out on every facet of EAWare, but it still seems like they're trying to avoid doing anything, pigeon-holing you into buying more peripherals.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kaskava

[Ebbikenezer]

If everyone already had it, then there wouldn't be any argument.

 

There really isn't an argument, you're arguing that because someone can buy something to make something available, it should be implemented into the game.

 

I'm not wholly against macros, I think they most certainly ARE useful, but your argument is so flawed and invalid it just stands to reason that when anyone sees posts like yours it's NOT HELPING the player base any with our credibility and reasoning.

 

Coming up with an intelligent and reasonable execution of implementing macros into the game and putting it in a thread on the suggestion forums is great.

 

Hopping into any thread talking about macros and claiming "It's available by purchasing hardware, WHY isn't it in the game?!?!!" just drives the entire subject of the thread to ridicule.

 

It's just silly. Your argument is silly. Your reasoning is silly. Every debate you put out against any post is just, well... silly. At the end of the day, AS IT STAND, RIGHT NOW: There are HUNDREDS, probably even THOUSANDS of games out there that you will gain an advantage by purchasing *GASP* a Razer product, EVEN THE SWTOR BRANDED ONES!!!

 

Are you all over EVERY one of those games' forums crying foul? Could we get all the links please?

 

People invest in their gaming, some more so than others and you want whatever "they" can do to be put in game "so we all can do it".

 

Well, we can't all be winners now, can we? This line of thinking is right along the lines of "Well I know he worked on his ranked WZs and/or NM Mode Ops for the past month non-stop, but I WANT that Gear/Title/Vanity Item too!!!!!" And it ruins games because eventually they cave, everyone can get everything for little to no work, and the people who did like to put a little effort into getting what they had move on, because all of their work was just devolved into the epitome of your "We should get it since it's here anyways!" post.

[CFourPO]

-Combat macros makes combat easier

-When one group has easier combat and another doesn't (macro-users vs. non-macro-users), balancing content to work with both groups becomes impossible.

 

Right. and right now. I am using macros out of game. Because I can figure out how to do them with Autohotkey I have an advantage. Because most casual people wouldnt know how to write those scripts and many people dont want to spend $100 on a mouse, they are at a disadvantage and will continue to be.

 

Simple in game macros would level the playing field for anyone that could get on the forum and read a guide. And a level playing field makes the game more fun.

Edited March 6, 2012 by CFourPO

[halorix]

Get a mic.

 

you realize that even if someone play's with friends there are still 4 people who wouldn't be able to hear right?

 

Of course i already know the answer.

[cipher_nemo]

Right. and right now. I am using macros out of game. Because I can figure out how to do them with Autohotkey I have an advantage. Because most casual people wouldnt know how to write those scripts and many people dont want to spend $100 on a mouse, they are at a disadvantage and will continue to be.

 

Yup, I do the same. I wouldn't call it a performance advantage, but I would call it an improved gaming experience as a result. Less tedious mashing keys = more relaxing gameplay with less carpel-tunnel inducing key mashing.

 

On the same note, some people have better/faster gaming rigs than others. That's clearly an advantage since they're experiencing smoother gameplay. Less local lag and hiccups in framerates means they get a better chance to respond faster in PvP, etc.

 

No one can truly level the playing field when we're talking PC gaming, but we can certainly help the casuals have a more enjoyable experience when we introduces macros into the client. Even though I don't need them, I'm all for making the client more accessible and more customizable.

 

Simple in game macros would level the playing field for anyone that could get on the forum and read a guide. And a level playing field makes the game more fun.

 

I think the Bioware devs are against it because they don't want to admit that players need macros just to play their game. They don't want to admit that they're going to have a cookie-cutter MMO just like everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I love TOR so far. They've made and continue to update a great game, but I do realize that they're not really innovating much in the MMO market.

Edited March 6, 2012 by cipher_nemo

[Kelsion]

There really isn't an argument, you're arguing that because someone can buy something to make something available, it should be implemented into the game.

 

I'm not wholly against macros, I think they most certainly ARE useful, but your argument is so flawed and invalid it just stands to reason that when anyone sees posts like yours it's NOT HELPING the player base any with our credibility and reasoning.

 

Coming up with an intelligent and reasonable execution of implementing macros into the game and putting it in a thread on the suggestion forums is great.

 

Hopping into any thread talking about macros and claiming "It's available by purchasing hardware, WHY isn't it in the game?!?!!" just drives the entire subject of the thread to ridicule.

 

It's just silly. Your argument is silly. Your reasoning is silly. Every debate you put out against any post is just, well... silly. At the end of the day, AS IT STAND, RIGHT NOW: There are HUNDREDS, probably even THOUSANDS of games out there that you will gain an advantage by purchasing *GASP* a Razer product, EVEN THE SWTOR BRANDED ONES!!!

 

Are you all over EVERY one of those games' forums crying foul? Could we get all the links please?

 

People invest in their gaming, some more so than others and you want whatever "they" can do to be put in game "so we all can do it".

 

Well, we can't all be winners now, can we? This line of thinking is right along the lines of "Well I know he worked on his ranked WZs and/or NM Mode Ops for the past month non-stop, but I WANT that Gear/Title/Vanity Item too!!!!!" And it ruins games because eventually they cave, everyone can get everything for little to no work, and the people who did like to put a little effort into getting what they had move on, because all of their work was just devolved into the epitome of your "We should get it since it's here anyways!" post.

 

 

The whole point of a subscription base gaming model is that everyone gets the same ability with the same subscription fee. How would you feel if you were new to the gaming community and decided to play SWTOR. You pay for the game and set up a sub. You start playing thinking that you have the same potential as everyone else. All you have to do is learn the game, practice, and improve. Then you find out that there are these peripherals out there that can give you the ability to do things in game that you can't do otherwise. You are like "cool, how can I get these abilities". Then you find out that you have to go pay a bunch of extra money for these peripherals or you won't be able to do the same things as these other people.

 

It is not vary fair, and sub based MMOs are all about fairness, balance, and skill. It is not about, "I have less skill than you so I will go buy some stuff and have an advantage over you." That is a F2P model. In a sub based model, either everyone has an ability or no one has it. It is that simple.

[bahdasz]

With 4 tool bars, I have to say that I don't miss macros at all. And this game really doesn't need a bunch of heal bots running around, or spam bots standing in the star ports and cantinas, that's for sure.

[va_wanderer]

Bioware doesn't like players not having to work.

 

There, I think that says it better.

[WutsInAName]

Thank god for no combat macros. Love you Bioware!

 

I use combat macro's

 

 

Anyone who cant figure out how to is just sub par,

 

 

hint* Razor.

[Icebaron]

so many people here confusing macro's with mods or addons.

 

Nobody tunes encounters based off macros. Or nobody I know of. WoW encounters are tuned to player add-ons.

 

But I will be honest, I want add-ons also. But offtopic.

[Kaskava]

There really isn't an argument, you're arguing that because someone can buy something to make something available, it should be implemented into the game.

 

Yeah, pretty much. What's wrong with being able to create a function that allows me to link invincible and a med pack together, without having to buy a $250 dollar keyboard?

 

I'm not wholly against macros, I think they most certainly ARE useful, but your argument is so flawed and invalid it just stands to reason that when anyone sees posts like yours it's NOT HELPING the player base any with our credibility and reasoning.

 

You're not against macros, at all. You just don't want them in any form other then peripherals. Which, of course, is so much better for the player base. I have yet to hear any reason besides "we just don't want to". Why? It's not for balance. It's not control the difficulty of the game. Why can't they add it in? Is it just so they can make more money off of the keyboard? At least that would be an honest answer.

 

Coming up with an intelligent and reasonable execution of implementing macros into the game and putting it in a thread on the suggestion forums is great.

 

Break any ability to link things that share a cooldown. Simple. Cooldown+med pack/relic, fine. Sunder+Smash, not fine.

 

Hopping into any thread talking about macros and claiming "It's available by purchasing hardware, WHY isn't it in the game?!?!!" just drives the entire subject of the thread to ridicule.

 

No, it doesn't. Why should I have to pay even more in a sub based MMO, that's supposed to be balanced and open? Its not even about paying more/less than someone else. It's about BALANCE. Allowing the peripherals to do some kind of in-game function without allowing at least something similar destroys it.

 

I'm fine with the extra mappable buttons, and the streaming track pad. It doesn't bother me.

 

I'm not fine with having to pay extra for something that BioWare is just too lazy/greedy to add in.

 

It's just silly. Your argument is silly. Your reasoning is silly. Every debate you put out against any post is just, well... silly. At the end of the day, AS IT STAND, RIGHT NOW: There are HUNDREDS, probably even THOUSANDS of games out there that you will gain an advantage by purchasing *GASP* a Razer product, EVEN THE SWTOR BRANDED ONES!!!

 

I love it when spends several saying something else is just silly. In as many spots as possible. Really makes it sound intelligent.

 

There are a lot of games where trying to take advantage of those bonuses are balanced out by things already in the game. Guess balance is too hard for you to understand. You see, by allowing these extra peripherals as the only to access this functionality, in a multiplayer game, it not only sets a bad precedent (since you're SO concerned about the gaming community and industry), it also clears they for other shady practices.

 

At this point what's to stop them from adding a pay to win shop? Would you argue against that? Can I use your argument of "well, I have the money, why shouldn't I be allowed to pay to win?"

 

Are you all over EVERY one of those games' forums crying foul? Could we get all the links please?

 

Yup.

 

All day.

 

Every day.

 

Just me.

 

By myself.

 

No one else.

 

Seriously. I don't care if a game like Tera allows for one-button wins, I care about what's going on in TOR. It's that simple.

 

People invest in their gaming, some more so than others and you want whatever "they" can do to be put in game "so we all can do it".

 

There's a difference between a $500 video card making frame rates smoother, and a $250 gaming keyboard making the game easier. Anyone with a brain can see that.

 

Well, we can't all be winners now, can we? This line of thinking is right along the lines of "Well I know he worked on his ranked WZs and/or NM Mode Ops for the past month non-stop, but I WANT that Gear/Title/Vanity Item too!!!!!" And it ruins games because eventually they cave, everyone can get everything for little to no work, and the people who did like to put a little effort into getting what they had move on, because all of their work was just devolved into the epitome of your "We should get it since it's here anyways!" post.

 

Know what the difference is? OPS AND WARZONES ARE IN THE *********** GAME. I don't have to go spend hundreds of more dollars to get the newest *********** warzone, and I don't think these things should be nerfed. I don't think there should be a *********** pay-to-win cash shop. I can go find a guild that raids six hours a night, five nights a week. I don't, but I can. And I wouldn't have to pay anymore then the sub cost to do so.

 

The people that earn those things in-game, with work in-game, have every right to what they earn. That's not what you're arguing for, though. You're arguing for pay to win.

[Pekish]

you know u can have sofware macro without the need of special keyboard the special keyboard give you the extra button but techincally who execute the macro is SOFTWARE so u could teorically add the same macro to a normal keyboard button if you have the right SOFTWARE so your point of buying expensive keyboard is a lie

 

and is a lie the price too 250$

 

can u exagerate a little bit more so u are even less credible....

[RadricTycho]

I will say it again since this topic is so incredibly derailed. (Unfortunately the guy above me just said the same thing. lol)

 

 

There are FREE SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS that a person can download to make a standard keyboard do even more sophisticated things than many of the hardware products.

 

I won't mention the names because I don't condone their use and they are probably a violation of the Terms and Conditions of using this game. And yes that includes any product branded with SWTOR logos. If BW doesn't want you using automated systems for combat and this is stated in their terms, then doing so is a violation of those terms no matter the method.

 

So the point is, there is no advantage that a special mouse, or keypad has over what your computer itself can do. This whole argument is pointless. All adding macros into the game would do is make doing the same thing simpler and more controlled. In fact it would probably expose some real weaknesses that need to be corrected in the execution of skills.

Edited March 6, 2012 by RadricTycho

[Pekish]

it's nice to read someone that can put in perfect english my blatering...

 

people crying you need a 250$ dollar keyboard to make macro just show how ignorant they are and why we shouldn't listen or even bother to read anything they write

 

macro is software not hardware if u dont understand that in first place you really have no right to talk about it.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Pekish