Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[Aeryl]

So the reason SWTOR shouldn't support Macs is because SWTOR doesn't support Macs?

 

Getting dizzy from your circular reasoning?

 

You're putting his comment in a different argument than it was intended. Lethality is saying Macs can do more than PCs, but we're in a thread bemoaning how hard it is to play TOR on a Mac. That is the point he was making. You using a strawman doesn't mean his comment is circular logic.

[Druc]

First of all, those are not Jobs' words.

 

Second of all, what will you do when Apple renames Mac OS X to iOS Desktop and then suddenly, based on devices, utterly OWNS Windows in market share? There will be more people with an iOS system than Windows.

 

Think about it... where will developers go?

 

Exactly.

 

If you are referring to MMOs, then unless all those devices can play AAA MMO like a PC I think you know the answer. Simply changing the name isn't going to fool anyone.

[iceperson]

If you are referring to MMOs, then unless all those devices can play AAA MMO like a PC I think you know the answer. Simply changing the name isn't going to fool anyone.

 

it'll fool mac zealots. then they'll come to game forums and complain because the games don't run on their overpriced machines...

[Lethality]

If 90% of computers were Mac then you would see hackers targeting that OS instead of Windows. It isn't worth it for a hacker to make a PC and a Mac version.... Just like most software developers.

 

Typical, false assumption. Sure there would be more targeted, but you would fewer vulnerabilities by far.

 

ANyway, I'm done with the thread... BioWare is going to make a Mac TOR, and that's /thread regardless of what Daniel Erickson said:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/02/bioware-mac-version-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-is-something/

[Aeryl]

First of all, those are not Jobs' words.

 

Second of all, what will you do when Apple renames Mac OS X to iOS Desktop and then suddenly, based on devices, utterly OWNS Windows in market share? There will be more people with an iOS system than Windows.

 

Think about it... where will developers go?

 

Exactly.

 

lol what???

 

You're saying that if Apple changes it's Mac OS to the same one that's on the iPad that people will suddenly want to make real games (not stupid stuff like Angry Birds) for it because there's tons of iPhones and iPads out there? Idiotic.

[Iandayen]

To answer all those arguments - What can Mac/PC do that a Mac/PC Can's.

 

I work for apple as a lead tech, not trying to be an internet know it all, just giving you a little bit of my background to verify what I'm about to say.

 

PC's hold every advantage over an Apple computer in every way possible as far as hardware goes.

 

Imac, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, Macbook pro - all Apple computers - and the only things you can upgrade in them is RAM and Hard drive size. Period. The motherboards are made to support only one type of processor and video card support is HUGELY limited.

 

Macintosh computers can not run SLI or Crossfire.

 

Macintosh computers are no longer the go to computer for video editing either, first because PC's can run SLI and Crossfire for much better graphics performance, and the new Intel Sandy Bridge processors on the 1155 socket (which apple does not have nor plans on getting) has the quick sync technology.

 

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/quick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html

 

Just look at Pixar - they are owned by apple pretty much and they use Sun systems and Linux based systems for their rendering farms, and HP for their animation computers.

 

 

---------------------------

 

Macs have one thing and one thing only better than a Windows PC - Their Operating system and it's security. Even then a Linux PC is better at that, and is close to being easier to use on top of it. Ubuntu is progressing very fast and is becoming more of a viable home user OS every day now.

 

You take the best Mac computer you can buy - and I'll build a PC that's twice as powerful for one third the price.

[scootshoot]

To answer all those arguments - What can Mac/PC do that a Mac/PC Can's.

 

I work for apple as a lead tech, not trying to be an internet know it all, just giving you a little bit of my background to verify what I'm about to say.

 

PC's hold every advantage over an Apple computer in every way possible as far as hardware goes.

 

Imac, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, Macbook pro - all Apple computers - and the only things you can upgrade in them is RAM and Hard drive size. Period. The motherboards are made to support only one type of processor and video card support is HUGELY limited.

 

Macintosh computers can not run SLI or Crossfire.

 

Macintosh computers are no longer the go to computer for video editing either, first because PC's can run SLI and Crossfire for much better graphics performance, and the new Intel Sandy Bridge processors on the 1155 socket (which apple does not have nor plans on getting) has the quick sync technology.

 

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/quick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html

 

Just look at Pixar - they are owned by apple pretty much and they use Sun systems and Linux based systems for their rendering farms, and HP for their animation computers.

 

 

---------------------------

 

Macs have one thing and one thing only better than a Windows PC - Their Operating system and it's security. Even then a Linux PC is better at that, and is close to being easier to use on top of it. Ubuntu is progressing very fast and is becoming more of a viable home user OS every day now.

 

You take the best Mac computer you can buy - and I'll build a PC that's twice as powerful for one third the price.

 

This ^^

 

Thank you for your insight

[ExBrillig]

The premise of the OP is totally bogus anyway. Anyone who uses their Mac for gaming already has Bootcamp and a Windows license.

 

Additional incremental cost: $0.

[ExBrillig]

Typical, false assumption. Sure there would be more targeted, but you would fewer vulnerabilities by far.

 

ANyway, I'm done with the thread... BioWare is going to make a Mac TOR, and that's /thread regardless of what Daniel Erickson said:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/02/bioware-mac-version-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-is-something/

 

You should try reading the article you linked. The only message there was that they wanted to do a Mac port, and would look at it. That's nowhere near a firm commitment that they'll actually do one.

[Wolfeisberg]

Probably the only way Mac OS can ever be taken seriously in the gaming world, is if Apple just sells their OS at competing prices with Windows. Right now Mac computers are basically throw away computers in the gaming world. You buy a Mac, and once it can't play the latest games to ones satisfaction, you throw away the computer and buy a whole new computer again. Where as with PCs you can upgrade piece by piece and save a crap ton of money.

[Wolfeisberg]

You should try reading the article you linked. The only message there was that they wanted to do a Mac port, and would look at it. That's nowhere near a firm commitment that they'll actually do one.

 

Yup, and in the mean time they could have looked at it, and decided it wasn't worth it, or EA told them they were not going to fund the making of the version since then.

[kisharrr]

Anybody who bought a Mac hoping to play games on it is self-deluded. You've already spent a 20% premium to use the same hardware that PCs have, why does the extra $200 bother you? My guess is that it doesn't actually bother you, and it's the principle. Well, go ahead and stand on your principle, but at least be honest that that's what it is.

[KahnyaGnorc]

With?

 

All sorts of hardware manufacturers. You can buy PC components from a large variety of manufacturers, thus being able to pick and choose components based on power/price, which allows one to build a PC with more power for less price.

 

Open Standards . . . something Apple has been allergic to since day one.

[Dystopic]

Typical, false assumption. Sure there would be more targeted, but you would fewer vulnerabilities by far.

 

ANyway, I'm done with the thread... BioWare is going to make a Mac TOR, and that's /thread regardless of what Daniel Erickson said:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/02/bioware-mac-version-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-is-something/

 

You'd have the same vulnerabilities. Mac has fewer viruses because people don't care enough to make them. That's it.

[Dayfax]

Just look at Pixar - they are owned by apple pretty much and they use Sun systems and Linux based systems for their rendering farms, and HP for their animation computers.

 

The fact that you're allegedly an "Apple tech" who just posted this in a public sphere should be deeply embarrassing, as it's wildly inaccurate on several levels.

 

It pretty much destroys the credibility of your entire post.

[TheRainstater]

I have both Mac's and PC's and I use them regularly. In fact atm I am using a mac laptop to type this.

 

Mac VRs PC. When it comes down to hardware they are exactly the same. Although you can buy more powerful PC's.

 

Both use intel processors, both "Now days" have game capable video cards. Both have HD screens, SSD, etc. They are both PC's. Both are personal computers and from a hardware point of view are identical and can not be compared.

 

What you are essentially paying 2x as much for is status and an operating system.

 

Mac's ATM are popular because they are trendy. People buy Mac's for the same reason people by a BMW. Because it makes them look and sound cool. aka trendy. Being trendy does not make one better than the other.

 

What we need to compare is the operating system. Windows looses this comparison hands down. The Mac OS runs smooth for years and does not bog down over time. Windows does. Windows has major programing issues causing it to grow tremendously over time. Just right clicking your windows OS folder will tell you its only about 14g in size. But there are folders in the OS folder that can get up to 25+gigs. How can your OS only be 14g when there are multiple folders well over 14g in the main folder? You have no control over Windows bloating other than occasionally doing a clean instal.

 

example go to Computer>C:>Windows and right click. View properties and not the size it says the windows OS folder is.

 

Now go inside the folder and scroll to the bottom and right click on your winsxs folder. this one will quickly grow in size. This is where it become obvious that Windows is fail. atm on my Alienware computer that is used only for gaming this folder is 18g. The windows folder said the OS was only 9g.

 

On my Son's Dell, his winsxs folder is 38g.

 

That folder will grow overtime causing your system to slow dramatically.

 

I hate Windows. It is absolute garbage. The Mac OS system is way better. That being said I will still by a gaming PC over a mac any day. Even though I like the Mac OS better I 100% believe with out a doubt Mac's are over priced. Mac's are not worth the extra chunk of change they gouge you with. They are even built at Foxcon the same exact place every single PC manufacture has their computer made.

 

I will not support Mac by buying one of their computers. Instead I will hack their OS to work on my Alienware. I will get 2x the performance for 1/2 the cost and still be running lion.

[kisharrr]

Who said one or the other has a technical "advantage"? They are virtually the same. And that's the point.

 

The value Apple puts into the entire experience, from hardware engineering to software to customer support, everything.

 

PC users, especially "gamers" have no clue the difference between value and cheap.

 

Here's the bottom line, and all you need to know:

 

If BioWare wants to grow subscriptions for TOR, and I know they do, there is no bigger single impact than the release of a Mac OS X native version. And you can take that to the bank.

 

Luckily they realize this and have all but confirmed a Mac version already underway:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/02/bioware-mac-version-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-is-something/

 

lol hardware what? They use Intel processors, nVidia graphics cards, and Gigabyte motherboards. What hardware do they engineer, with the exception of the BIOS locker that returns a valid code to allow installation of the OS?

[ArkhamNative]

YES! Demand for Mac version continues, even at the guild summit. I suppose DE or whoever really wants Mac users to buy the game today, even if it costs them more than a CE to do so. And even if it contradicts the leaders of his company.

 

A lot of people own Macs and are not playing SWTOR until it releases a Mac version. The fact is, developers who release Mac games see a profit on that port, even months after the console and Windows versions ship. It's why they do it over and over again.

[SageH]

Actually, the Mac does everything and more that a PC does.

 

It's all about the available software... if you're a fool and you want to spend $1200 on a computer for gaming when a $200 Xbox will work - get a PC. If you want a computer for what they were intended for PLUS some gaming... get a Mac. Period.

 

There are, literally, million of WoW players who do so from a Mac. The Mac market is huge. And growing.

 

The poster I'm quoting as uneducated and as misinformed as I've seen.

 

Mac market is not huge and growing, in fact it was outpaced and eclipsed by the iPad in the first two years it was on the market. It sold more in two years, than Apple has sold Macs since their invention. Sorry but Mac's aren't exploding in popularity, iPad's are and good luck playing SWTOR on that.

[SageH]

First of all, those are not Jobs' words.

 

Second of all, what will you do when Apple renames Mac OS X to iOS Desktop and then suddenly, based on devices, utterly OWNS Windows in market share? There will be more people with an iOS system than Windows.

 

Think about it... where will developers go?

 

Exactly.

 

You mean copy what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and what Google is doing with Android? Shocker.

Edited March 6, 2012 by SageH

[KahnyaGnorc]

Work on WINE compatibility (or help WINE devs work on TOR compatibility). That way you get pretty much everybody with a computer but not Windows OS.

[Genitor]

The people saying Macs aren't for gaming or aren't "optimized" for gaming are full of bantha fodder.

 

The hardware is just as effective for gaming as windows hardware. In fact, it's probably better because all the hardware comes from the same place. When you buy a Windows PC, you are buying all different companies parts that are being put together.

 

It is not a matter if macs are "optimized" for gaming or some bogus nonsense that some people are throwing out. It comes down to the software. Asking for a port of a game for a fast growing operating system is not a ridiculous request.

 

Macs can run swtor just as well as PC's can. In fact, I have a friend with a windows laptop with the same specs as my macbook and my laptop outperforms his when using bootcamp.

 

Saying Macs arent meant for gaming is a pretty uneducated statement, because when you say Mac, you really mean the OS, because the hardware is pretty much the same. The only reason there aren't as many games on the Mac is because they aren't being supported. They are more than capable to play them.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Genitor

[ounkeo]

Despite the desire for some Mac users to play on their Macs, it simply is a matter of numbers. Gamers make up a small number of PC users and Macs make up a small number of those PC users. It doesn't make economic sense to target that market unless they have a much larger player base to support the port.

 

And frankly, they didn't target PC grandmas. They targetted relatively high to medium-high end machines with decent graphics cards, something most people aren't going to really have. Most PC users won't really be playing this game - just gamers.

 

I think that yes, while it's a bit dismissive; his point makes sense. If you are a Mac user and have enough money to pay for a Mac, forking over an extra $100 or so for a Win 7 copy really shouldn't be a problem. If you were hard up for money, you wouldn't have paid for a Mac in the first place. And if you did, you obviously decided the cost/benefit ratio was well worth it... hence, what's another $100 bucks really.

 

dismissive but valid nonetheless.

[Sunsoar]

The thing is: You bought an expensive piece of equipment that was only expensive because Apple made it. The same hardware in a Windows computer would cost you 500bucks.

 

 

Blah blah blah blah about Windows running like crap to Mac. User error does not mean an OS sucks. Mac has perks sure. Windows will ALWAYS be superior for gaming.

 

 

Good luck in your gaming adventures on a Mac.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Sunsoar

[ArkhamNative]

The premise of the OP is totally bogus anyway. Anyone who uses their Mac for gaming already has Bootcamp and a Windows license.

 

That's absolutely untrue, and easy to prove false. I know lots of people who play games on their Mac and don't have Windows. A friend was telling me about how great RAGE's graphics were, and how much he enjoyed playing it. Point disproven. A lot of us played Portal 2, and will be playing Diablo III on day one, too.

 

A lot of posters fly into defensive rages at the mention of Mac gaming. If you're going to get mad, get mad at BioWare, or EA, or Ubisoft, or 2K, or any of the hundred(?) other developers who release games for Mac. We wouldn't buy them if they didn't release them.