Bioware, accept responsibility for your crappy engine.

[Midichlorien]

Exactly, I think the people that say they aren't having problems never step foot in a warzone or Illum to see how your fps plummets.

 

The people who insist on not having fps problems on Illum most likely gather their quest stuff on 4 AM in the morning while circling alone and clockwise like a sedulous bee around the central area.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Midichlorien

[Rabbitfoot]

Yea I remember the nw2 engine, same thing. Low gpu usage, low fps.

[Hexagar]

Hate to break it for you but GW2 suffers from the exact same problems (poor optimization).

 

lol? all the reviews indicates that the game although it has stunning graphics it is ultra light....

Edited March 1, 2012 by Hexagar

[krinaman]

You know I could care less right? Look up hero engine. It is free. I got mine approved before the global "we approve everyone"

 

And?

 

 

 

,,,,,,,,,,

[ChrisJanM]

Yep, here it is, a NOOB question. In WoW I could easily see my FPS. How do I discover my FPS in ToR? Do I need to install some utility?

[DarthKhaos]

Hate to break it for you but GW2 suffers from the exact same problems (poor optimization).

But GW2 has the ultimate solution. No official forums so they don't have to deal with the QQ.

[Ironspeed]

Yep, here it is, a NOOB question. In WoW I could easily see my FPS. How do I discover my FPS in ToR? Do I need to install some utility?

 

ctrl+shift+f

 

Green text in the bottom left corner, slightly anoying placement due to companion window, but hey, thats how it is!

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ironspeed

[muzzle_flash]

But GW2 has the ultimate solution. No official forums so they don't have to deal with the QQ.

 

lol indeed

[Blackweb]

Heh... I'm running the game with 50-120 fps (all places considered), I changed LOD to -3 which increases environment quality ALOT... all settings are at their highest and yes it still looks like crap. When I get to a cinematic everything turns to high res and it all looks decent again. Heck I played most of the game with high res textures enabled through the ini file and was enjoying myself.. now I can hardly get myself to log in cuz I have to stare at mediocre crap graphics even though I have a rig which can handle 2-3 tors with high res textures at the same time.

 

EDIT: Real win decision you made there by not letting us enable the high res through the ini file... great work bioware and thanks.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Blackweb

[MillionsKNives]

Actually I have a rather good understanding how game engines work, because I've done some gamedev work in my life.

 

Clearly not enough.

 

I could throw a sleep statement anywhere in the code that isn't in the "engine" and cause massive stuttering. Same result. Except it wouldn't be the engine's fault, it would be that a sleep was placed in code that exists outside the engine.

 

You cannot tell where the problem lies just by playing the game. Learn what an engine is.

[xShadowxs]

I was reading today's Q&A when I came across this question.

 

 

 

Now let me preface this by saying it's good that Bioware is paying attention to this issue and dedicated to solving it.

 

But let me make one thing clear. The poor performance of SWTOR on many low and high-end systems is almost entirely due to poor programming and resource allocation by the HERO engine. Bioware, please stop blaming poor performance on players client machines when the engine you chose to host SWTOR clearly isn't up to the job.

 

If I can play the single-player campaign @ max. detail above 40 FPS and yet my FPS drop below 20, even at the lowest possible settings in a Warzone (especially Alderaan) then the fault isn't with my hardware, it's with your engine.

 

Addressing performance issues isn't about making SWTOR run on "even cheaper computers", it's about fixing that damn mess of a code you guys call your engine and turning into something worthy of the most expensive video game ever made.

i hope you realize that hero engine is one of the hardest game engines to modify code and make new adjustments on stop giving them **** if you dont even know how their game works alone that being said its running through a server client so its a pain in the *** to get all the bugs fixed so please stop harassing a company when your knowledge is even more limited then 12 year olds who play the game and no im not 12

[Barracudastr]

Clearly not enough.

 

I could throw a sleep statement anywhere in the code that isn't in the "engine" and cause massive stuttering. Same result. Except it wouldn't be the engine's fault, it would be that a sleep was placed in code that exists outside the engine.

 

You cannot tell where the problem lies just by playing the game. Learn what an engine is.

 

Thats a what if.

 

Your assuming the fault lies with the devs and not with the engine yet you have no proof.

 

We can look at how swtor runs resources and determine that the engine is using a retarded amount coupled with disk caching because it couldn't lower its overhead so they use a 1 gig cache file....

 

There have been many many people much smarter then you that have put up very logical valid reasons as to why the game is performing horribly due to the engine's design.

 

And since they bought the engine in an unfinished state it is both the engine and the devs that are the cause of our woes today. Their inability to optimize it and have it run smoothly and heroengines lack of maturity and features when they first bought it.

 

either way its their fault regardless of what component is at fault. Had they chose U3 they would have had top notch support from the programmers that developed it. And we probably wouldn't have a lag fest crapshoot game.

[Barracudastr]

i hope you realize that hero engine is one of the hardest game engines to modify code and make new adjustments on stop giving them **** if you dont even know how their game works alone that being said its running through a server client so its a pain in the *** to get all the bugs fixed so please stop harassing a company when your knowledge is even more limited then 12 year olds who play the game and no im not 12

 

I honestly dont care about its difficulty.

 

Its still their fault.

 

If its to hard to code and mod they shouldn't have used it.

 

how many new mmo's released have you seen where the primary engine is the focus of much debate around which theres so many performance issues?

 

I dont know any....

Edited March 1, 2012 by Meluna
language

[Snibb]

i hope you realize that hero engine is one of the hardest game engines to modify code and make new adjustments on stop giving them **** if you dont even know how their game works alone that being said its running through a server client so its a pain in the *** to get all the bugs fixed so please stop harassing a company when your knowledge is even more limited then 12 year olds who play the game and no im not 12

 

If the Hero engine is so difficult to work in, why did they choose it? And while they modified large parts of it to suit their needs (something I remember reading when I was getting myself all hyped for this game,) why didn't they make it more user friendly for themselves. I've worked on engines other than the Hero engine, and it's only as hard as you make it on yourself by writing confusing, not commented, not organized script. But I guess that's true with any coding.

[MillionsKNives]

Thats a what if.

 

Your assuming the fault lies with the devs and not with the engine yet you have no proof.

 

We can look at how swtor runs resources and determine that the engine is using a retarded amount coupled with disk caching because it couldn't lower its overhead so they use a 1 gig cache file....

 

There have been many many people much smarter then you that have put up very logical valid reasons as to why the game is performing horribly due to the engine's design.

 

And since they bought the engine in an unfinished state it is both the engine and the devs that are the cause of our woes today. Their inability to optimize it and have it run smoothly and heroengines lack of maturity and features when they first bought it.

 

either way its their fault regardless of what component is at fault. Had they chose U3 they would have had top notch support from the programmers that developed it. And we probably wouldn't have a lag fest crapshoot game.

 

I think you missed my point. I never said that there were no problems with the engine, all I was saying was that you can't just blanket blame an engine for everything. I'd guess that the problems lie at multiple layers of the software with a mix of areas to blame.

 

You essentially agreed with what I was trying to get across. And it's not like they don't have access to the engine's code as well as their own to work out ways to fix most problems, given time.

[PostalTwinkie]

.....given time.

 

Given time? These issues have been around since beta. Tom's Hardware did a complete article on the beta client as well. This wasn't a "Surprise! Game is going to run like **** for some reason now..." situation, it has been a "Hey! Your game is running like crap on systems it shouldn't, for no reason!".

 

There is a well documented issue that has been commented on by many in the player community and several major publishers in the industry. BioWare first ignored the issue, refusing to comment on it and closing threads that openly called them out on their issue. It wasn't until PCGamer asked them what the hell is going on did they say it is the players fault, and their low end systems.

 

BioWare has yet to take responsibility for this issue, and is still trying to pass the buck. With the exception of the recent development of "We have a strike team that is giving you EVEN LOWER quality visuals" as a fix.

 

So here is the breakdown of the issue so far.

 

• Issue is documented and reported in Beta
  
• BioWare ignores the players
  
• Tom's Hardware does a general review of SWTOR, siting the performance issues
  
• BioWare ignores Tom's
  
• BioWare removes high resolution visuals and many graphical options, lowering quality of product.
  
• Game releases, players complain of issue
  
• BioWare ignores players again
  
• PCGamer asks BioWare "What is going on?"
  
• BioWare blames players and their low end systems
  
• Players complain
  
• BioWare ignores players
  
• GameInformer sites in their review the massive performance issues
  
• Players complain more
  
• BioWare reduces the quality of their product again, instead of fixing it
  

 

Awesome track record we have going.....

Edited March 1, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[MillionsKNives]

snip

 

They never said that the new lower options are a fix for everything. They only said it was a fix that they have ready to push out. No one said it was the end of their plans for improving things.

 

I completely understand the reason people are angry. They have a right to be when the game doesn't play well on a system that should play it just fine. The main problem I have is when people just blindly say things like "HERO engine sux, y u suck biofail", as though there is positively only one cause to all problems, The Engine.

 

I'm personally optimistic that improvements will come. Disagree if you'd like.

Edited March 1, 2012 by MillionsKNives

[Wraithwarr]

Its NOT the engine. Its just your PC. Look at the recomended requirements and check. Dont just say "I EXCEED recomended." Literally research your PC's specs, and check how it compares to the recomended. I've seen people hit 140-160 FPS on max in open world, but they capped it at 60 so it didnt constantly drop. In PVP they didnt drop 60 FPS on MAX AT ALL.

 

I by far exceed the recommended specs on both my my machines, as do many others. My framerate sucks in ilum, as does many others with high end gaming rigs. There are a few (and I do mean maybe 3) Set-ups that run the game at an acceptable framerate in open world pvp. But these are the exception rather than the rule. I am averaging 6 fps in Ilum in large scale fights with my o.c.'d @ 4.0 ghz i5, radeon 6770, ssd, and 8 gigs of ram. I know many others with higher end hardware than myself who get even worse. It's not always how much money you spend, but how lucky you got with you specs hitting the engine lottery. They need to accept the fact that this game is running poorly across 90% of machines out there. In almost every other aspect of the game it runs smooth, but when you get a large amount of players in an area fighting each other the engine takes a dump.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Wraithwarr

[PostalTwinkie]

They never said that the new lower options are a fix for everything. They only said it was a fix that they have ready to push out. No one said it was the end of their plans for improving things.

 

I completely understand the reason people are angry. They have a right to be when the game doesn't play well on a system that should play it just fine. The main problem I have is when people just blindly say things like "HERO engine sux, y u suck biofail", as though there is positively only one cause to all problems, The Engine.

 

I'm personally optimistic that improvements will come. Disagree if you'd like.

 

Based off your response I question if you actually read what I said. At no point did I say it was a "fix for everything" or "the end of their plans for improving things", not once. I simply stated the facts and how the situation has been handled, everything I stated has been documented. Nothing I said has been made up or said blindly, on any level.

 

How can you, or anyone, even consider what they are doing with the new lower resolution a fix? If anything it would be a temporary work around on the issue, but that doesn't even seem to be the case. From the PTR videos the performance gain by enabling the now even lower settings is very marginal. Yet the visual impact is extremely massive, again hinting at the issue being more deep rooted than the user system.

Edited March 1, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[MillionsKNives]

Based off your response I question if you actually read what I said. At no point did I say it was a "fix for everything" or "the end of their plans for improving things", not once. I simply stated the facts and how the situation has been handled, everything I stated has been documented. Nothing I said has been made up or said blindly, on any level.

 

How can you, or anyone, even consider what they are doing with the new lower resolution a fix? If anything it would be a temporary work around on the issue, but that doesn't even seem to be the case. From the PTR videos the performance gain by enabling the now even lower settings is very marginal. Yet the visual impact is extremely massive, again hinting at the issue being more deep rooted than the user system.

 

I've seen enough complaints saying or implying that the lower setting is meant to fix everything that I got the impression that that was the intention of your mention of it. Whether or not I was right, it would now appear that I wasn't.

 

I agree about the "fix", it is by no means a solution to the problem. I'm not even sure that it was meant to help people with higher end rigs, but instead to help lower end rigs for which the shaders might have been a problem.

[vandana_]

TheJestersHat: What is BioWare planning to do about performance issues that people get with Warzone, open world PVP, and general FPS issues?

 

Damion Schubert: We have an internal strike team that is fully devoted to ensuring that the game runs better and faster, especially on low end machines, and we consider this team's work to be a crucial internal initiative. You should see evidence of this work as soon as Patch 1.1.5, when we will be introducing a new 'very low' setting to shader quality, which should drastically increase the number of mid-to-low machines the game can run well on, especially in Warzones and Operations.

 

How about making it run smoothly on newer computers? Lower shader option is your remedy? Seriously?

 

And I like the tiltle of this thread - this is yet another thread about how the game engine is flawed (Introduce DirectX 11 already) and there has been no honest comment from devs.

 

Change this crappy engine please, make your team write a new one. When I get smooth FPS in Ilum I'll be satisfied (and by that I don't mean kill world PVP).

Edited March 1, 2012 by vandana_

[Sathid]

I read somewhere that the Hero engine is supposed to get an upgrade add on some time this year,1st qtr too.

[Space_Gimp]

I read somewhere that the Hero engine is supposed to get an upgrade add on some time this year,1st qtr too.

 

I demand a link or I will continue hating mercilessly like the cool kids.

[Sathid]

I demand a link or I will continue hating mercilessly like the cool kids.

 

Lol il try and find it.

[LeComte]

I read somewhere that the Hero engine is supposed to get an upgrade add on some time this year,1st qtr too.

 

Good luck waiting for a "Hero Engine upgrade" The devs stated back in beta that the current engine is so far modified from the base engine itself, that upgrades made to the hero engine would be incompatable with the SWTOR version of it.