Faulhaber Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 A lot of people roll NEED because the majority of the players usually greed or pass if it's an upgrade to anyone else. Clearly the system encourages abuse and that's it. To some people the simple fact they're having an advantage is the motivation. You'd come into stupid arguments like soandso rolls need because they helped the group obtain that loot then they have equal rights about it. Pure BS. A commando rolling need on items with Willpower, when everyone else greeded on it and a sage rolled need first, is immoral NO MATTER if loot rules where discussed beforehand or not. Let everyone only roll NEED and allow people to trade instance drops inside instances. Better yet randomly assign the loot to players that participated and those with better ties inside the group or with better social skills are more likely to receive the item they want. THIS will help strengthen group play and the spirit of teaming in an MMO, it will encourage group playing and force jerks to behave nicely if they want something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yep, you'll get kicked and you're the rude one. Your companion didn't participate in the group. Your companion doesn't deserve the loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yep, you'll get kicked and you're the rude one. Your companion didn't participate in the group. Your companion doesn't deserve the loot. The player did participate in the group, they deserve the loot. You are being rude and a jerk for not stating what the loot rules were at the beginning. Unless you do that, you have no grounds to kick someone from the group except you being mad and upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Let everyone only roll NEED and allow people to trade instance drops inside instances. Better yet randomly assign the loot to players that participated and those with better ties inside the group or with better social skills are more likely to receive the item they want. THIS will help strengthen group play and the spirit of teaming in an MMO, it will encourage group playing and force jerks to behave nicely if they want something. This is just a Free-For-All loot method and it's how MMOs ran for years and years, before NBG came into the fix. And I can tell you, with that old method, there was a lot less loot drama, people were more generous, and it was much, much easier to discover who the selfish players were. There was no, "Oh, sorry, accidentally hit the wrong button; now it's bound" stuff. You knew very easily who you wanted to group with and who you didn't. And there was no sense of entitlement for loot. The winner won. Period. Usually, he gave it to the person that needed it most, but if he did it was an act of generosity, and the person that got it felt appreciative, not entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The player did participate in the group, they deserve the loot. You are being rude and a jerk for not stating what the loot rules were at the beginning. Unless you do that, you have no grounds to kick someone from the group except you being mad and upset. lol you play that way & i bet you get kicked everyday & eventually can't find a group. You'll be the mad one making a quitting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yep, you'll get kicked and you're the rude one. Your companion didn't participate in the group. Your companion doesn't deserve the loot. So I'm assuming you don't play with new players, specifically people new to MMOs? Just trying to be clear here. If someone is brand new to MMOs, level 10, just got their companion, and groups with you - who does not explain ANY loot rules... if they click need because it's the ONLY choice that fits, thinking logically that everyone else that needs it - for whatever reason - will do the same... You're going to kick that person on the basis that they're a jerk. That's what you're saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 lol you play that way & i bet you get kicked everyday & eventually can't find a group. You'll be the mad one making a quitting thread. Conjecture, supposition and assumption based on nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So I'm assuming you don't play with new players, specifically people new to MMOs? Just trying to be clear here. If someone is brand new to MMOs, level 10, just got their companion, and groups with you - who does not explain ANY loot rules... if they click need because it's the ONLY choice that fits, thinking logically that everyone else that needs it - for whatever reason - will do the same... You're going to kick that person on the basis that they're a jerk. That's what you're saying? I really don't care about loot till 50. Run Hard Modes or Operations and need for your companion without asking. See how the community treats you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowred Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The need button should be unavailable for anything your character can't equip. And perhaps a greed for companion button added. There are always ppl that decide need covers anything they want it too... I've even seen need used for stuff to sell in AH because they need currency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunwindIon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The need button should be unavailable for anything your character can't equip. so characters that can use heavy armour can need on everything while light armour wearers can not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulhaber Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The need button should be unavailable for anything your character can't equip The need button should be removed. Better yet upon defeating the enemy the loot is randomly distributed between the group. Then if you want a certain drop discuss it with the player who received it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This thread seems like one huge whine-fest. 1) They shouldn't have made companions gear dependent. 2) They should have had a better loot system in place long before launch. Go complain to the Dev's instead of trying to impose your will on other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanisle Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I ninja'd the OP today just for kicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midichlorian Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This is completely false. The other players also get to roll need and might win too. If you're saying I should not roll and let them have it, then I think you need to look at your own definition of greed. Ah i see, everyone should just roll need for everything. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midichlorian Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I ninja'd the OP today just for kicks Well at least your honest about it, and not trying to justify it with a flawed logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordak Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Group/raid leader should set loot terms down before flashpoint run, op done, boss killed, etc.. "Need before greed, no need for companions" Make sure everyone acknowledges. If they do not, they get kicked. Not too savvy what BW's rule is for in game item fraud, but the last MMO I played had this situation covered. As long as loot rules were stated at the beginning of the run, and all agreed, they had to stick to the rules. Any who went outside the rule was at fault, and would have the item stripped from them and it would be granted to the actual winner. Also, if they'd just make companion-only gear drops, this wouldn't be an issue. Add two random pieces to the loot table in Ops (three for NM "end" boss), two for end bosses in HM FPs, and one for end boss of normal FPs... or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So I'm assuming you don't play with new players, specifically people new to MMOs? Just trying to be clear here. If someone is brand new to MMOs, level 10, just got their companion, and groups with you - who does not explain ANY loot rules... if they click need because it's the ONLY choice that fits, thinking logically that everyone else that needs it - for whatever reason - will do the same... You're going to kick that person on the basis that they're a jerk. That's what you're saying? New players are only new once ..and probably deserve the benefit of the doubt ...once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Irrelevant. Why is it irrelevant? It's happening. Frung: Have you considered adding a "companion" loot roll option? Damion Schubert: We've discussed it and have a design for it - when we do this, we will make it so you can only roll 'need' on items that your advanced class is meant to use in one of its specs. I do not currently have an ETA on this feature. gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 If you don't like.biowares loot rules don't pug. There is no such thing as stealing gear when everyone has a chance to roll on it. You are not entitled to it just because you want it or because your character is able to wear it unless otherwise established your loot priorities are Jo more important than mine . You have The same chances as everyone else to win a roll. The gear does not belong to you untill you win the roll. Unless the group has agreed to special loot rules before hand and those rules were broken you have no grounds to complain. Your just one of those many brats that think they own gear before it even drops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Why is it irrelevant? It's happening. It's not in the game meaning it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 If you don't like.biowares loot rules don't pug. There is no such thing as stealing gear when everyone has a chance to roll on it. You are not entitled to it just because you want it or because your character is able to wear it unless otherwise established your loot priorities are Jo more important than mine . You have The same chances as everyone else to win a roll. The gear does not belong to you untill you win the roll. Unless the group has agreed to special loot rules before hand and those rules were broken you have no grounds to complain. Your just one of those many brats that think they own gear before it even drops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Let's analyze, shall we? "We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for" So, they made gear with a primary class in mind. Companions don't have primary classes. Interesting. "and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits." So, he's going to add a new button so people who want companion gear can't win it over PCs, but they will get a priority over greed. So, the lead systems designer also thinks PC > Companions as well? Again, interesting. It's weird. If they thought your companion was an extension of your character, why would the change prioritize need rolls so that you couldn't win companion loot over someone else's PC anymore? Yep... interesting. The problem in this thread is that many people are talking past each other. There are two primary groups: Group 1 believes that PC > Companions. Therefore, you should only press need for PCs. Group 2 believes that Companions > Sell for Credits. Therefore you should only press need for PCs and Companions, and not for things you are going to sell. The new system will be PC > Companions > Sell. I think this is a reasonable compromise. While many people disagree that PCs>Companions, I suspect enough of them would be happy to let that particular argument go if it would eliminate (or at least reduce) loot drama. The new system will give companions priority over credits. Under the current system, the only way to prioritize companions over credits is to press need. An improvement might be to have PCs and Companions get separate buttons but share a roll (rather than give PCs an absolute priority), with PCs ("need") getting a +50 bonus to their rolls. This would recognize that they both have a claim, but that one is inferior to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBQedGamer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 IMHO, if a companion is participating in the group combat, then that companion is entitled to be needy if it helps them help the party better, same rules/concepts as players currently follow. It never hurts to ask for rules clarification before missions start since there can be many reasons for wanting to loot items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclonit Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I group up with randoms quite often and discuss the rules at the beginning. Everybody breaking the rules will be kicked and blacklisted on sight. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I group up with randoms quite often and discuss the rules at the beginning. Everybody breaking the rules will be kicked and blacklisted on sight. Simple as that. I don't really think anybody on this thread is defending someone who breaks a loot rule that's established and agreed upon at the formation of the group. Pretty much everybody (with two exceptions that I've seen) agree that the best solution is to make the loot rule when the group is formed. The real debate is what people should consider the default loot method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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