KeltikTwo Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You repeatedly tagged a boss with no intention of killing it, but just to prevent them from trying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) That point could be argued in this case. People who find PVP 'distressing' have no business on a PVP server and should delete and restart. If who tags the mob is more important to you than wiping out the opposition for no other reason than that they are there, then you are a PVEer who should delete and restart on a PVE server. Edited February 18, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) That point could be argued in this case. It can be claimed, but I'd be loathe to punish someone based on my opinion of their purpose unless I had more info (like a chatlog showing them harassing the players). If the assumption (and I have seen nothing more than an assumption) is that pvping on a pvp server = harassment then why have a pvp server? Edited February 18, 2012 by Jestunhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I ll get my guild camp such important bosses just so we can kill the imps or reps... And if i get a single warning i ll post it everywher eon blogs, forum, EVERYWHERE to show what bioware calls pvp and why they should not be trusted.... the op show that bioware is one of the worst pvp company ITS SIMPLY STUPID, KIDS SHOULD NOT GO ON PVP SERVER IF THEY CANT HANDLE BEING KILLED BY OTHERS UNFAIRLY... YES PVP IS ABOUT GGUILD PVP AND WARS AKA DENYING THE ENEMIES EVERYTHING YOU CAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkfallDC Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Absolutely ridiculous. Those players should be given commendations or medals of some sort for trying to participate in the lackluster content that is Open World PVP, not warned against it. If you roll a PVP server, you accept any and all consequences of such. Losing a world boss? Sucks. Camped on an alt by a level 50? Sucks. Spawn camped at the med center? Sucks. Suck it up, get some friends and play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosvidaniya Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The whole story, they attacked us first. We did the PVP thing and made a call out on the TS server.... We rolled in and camped the boss, didnt take it down, but protected it instead. Tag the boss as they get there and then wipe them. Actually thought this was cool and enjoyed the PVP. After a bit, most of us left but some stay around harassing the repubs by attacking them while they engaged the boss and such. Perhaps on a PVE server that would be wrong. But on a PVP server, PVP happens, you have to plan for the opposing faction and IMHO be ready to abandon running a world boss or cancel a RAID because the entrance is blocked by the opposing faction. BW tends to be really carebearish though, so I could see them saying this is harassment or griefing. If that is the case, it's their game and I wont complain about it. It's most likely due to what you were doing to the boos, not the players. Even in WoW, you could be banned for the same thing IF you were abusing the boss in order to make it more difficult for players. If you were killing the adds and watching it explode their raid, most companies will say it is not pvp and you'll get your warning. If you were tagging the boss, even though you knew you'd lose, just so they would have to reset it, you were griefing. Real pvp at a world boss means killing them while they try to kill the boss. Douchebaggery and griefing is when you know you can't so you exploit mechanics to stop them. That's when you get a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkfallDC Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Is it clever use of mechanics intended to kill enemy players? PVP happened. Is there a viable PVP solution to the problem? Yes? No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmancreeping Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 So here is the scenario. Belsavis World Boss is up. Republic guild is trying to take him down. A group of Imperials attack the repubs.....repeatedly til they abandon the boss. Imperials get warnings for griefing. Funny... But very very sad I would of gone off on the person who sent warning. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 So here is the scenario. Belsavis World Boss is up. Republic guild is trying to take him down. A group of Imperials attack the repubs.....repeatedly til they abandon the boss. Imperials get warnings for griefing. Funny... But very very sad I would of gone off on the person who sent warning. :/ Thats one possible scenario, but what most likely happened is: The World Boss is up, some Rep guild take it on and is attacked by Imps and loss the tag on the Boss. The Imps after a while mostly leave, but a few less than brilliant players decide to stop PvPing and starts exploiting that you can tag the boss preventing the Reps from downing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I was actually thinking about this(denying the opposing faction content) from an RP perspective(any other way just seems obnoxious if it's done for an extended period of time). I mean there is a war going on, you want the opposing faction to have the least amount of high levels as possible so it's harder for them to 'fight back'. I'm kinda surprised this doesn't happen more often. . .especially with datacrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 It's most likely due to what you were doing to the boos, not the players. Even in WoW, you could be banned for the same thing IF you were abusing the boss in order to make it more difficult for players. If you were killing the adds and watching it explode their raid, most companies will say it is not pvp and you'll get your warning. If you were tagging the boss, even though you knew you'd lose, just so they would have to reset it, you were griefing. Real pvp at a world boss means killing them while they try to kill the boss. Douchebaggery and griefing is when you know you can't so you exploit mechanics to stop them. That's when you get a warning. I don't really see a problem as long as all sides agree to PvP (either by being on a PvP server or flagging for PvP). As a rep player, on a PvE server I had an encounter with a sith who sneaked into our heroic 2 zone on Ilum and kept assisting mobs against republic players trying to do dailies. Sure, it's frustrating, but my first response was not "report him", but "/2 hey, anyone up for an ops to smoke an imp out of our h2 area?". It's part of the role-playing. Ask yourself a question: is it within your view of the depicted world to have sith aiding random creatures fighting republic soldiers? If it is, then it's perfectly within the rules. Now, if someone was to repeatedly aid mobs by healing them and was not flagged for PvP, that I would consider griefing because it's abusing the mechanics (but even then, the solution should not be to have players reported, but to switch mechanics so that a player healing mobs that are fighting the opposing faction is immediately flagged for PvP). Also, what you call "exploting mechanics" others might just call "tactics" :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 the bottom line is such actions by bioware are an abomination and shows 0 knowledge of pvp by bioware... you cant imagine how much i want to force choke the idiot who issued that warning or bioware for even allowing doing such thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Amazing thing, never seen same in any other game. Attacking other faction on world bosses is not agaisnt any rules and never seen people get banned or warned about it on WoW for example. BW really likes to kill the little world PvP they got in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Old MMOs (Everquest) had a Loot & Scoot rule for this kind of stuff. ( Loot & Scoot name comes from that in old MMOs you had to run to your corpse to pick up your gear and lost experience from death, Scoot refers to leaving the zone or area you were killed in) If you're killed in pvp, you can't enter the zone in 1 hour. And this was enforced by the GMs on the servers. The problem here is, that most likely the people denying the other team of killing the boss, was repeatedly killed, respawned and started pvping again. This kind of behaviour is harrasment. This also goes to rest of the kids there, if you die in pvp, don't just respawn and attack your opponent immediately when they're on a mob. Show some respect. Open world pvp started to be a joke when Loot and scoot rules disappeared. People will just ZERG their opponent instead of fighting fair. Edited February 18, 2012 by Piriste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukor Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 If you were tagging the boss, even though you knew you'd lose, just so they would have to reset it, you were griefing. Real pvp at a world boss means killing them while they try to kill the boss. Douchebaggery and griefing is when you know you can't so you exploit mechanics to stop them. Sure sounds like that's what happened here. I love open pvp and have for many years in many games, but tagging a boss solely to prevent players from getting the kill, that's griefing and there really isn't any other way to look at it. Should be interesting to see the forums light up with some funny garbage threads about how Bioware stops players from pvp'ing though, always entertaining to read the dribble that comes out of idiots with keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 i thought griefing was same faction only. and hell, in wow during the burning crusade there was an outdoor boss that was supposed to be a 20 man but you could use as many people as you want. i remember single handedly wiping their entire 50+ raid over and over again by cycloning the tank so that the boss went wild and wiped out half of the raid with a single cleave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 i thought griefing was same faction only. and hell, in wow during the burning crusade there was an outdoor boss that was supposed to be a 20 man but you could use as many people as you want. i remember single handedly wiping their entire 50+ raid over and over again by cycloning the tank so that the boss went wild and wiped out half of the raid with a single cleave. From the rules which we all agreed to on harassment: "Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy." You can't just do anything you like just because someone is in the other faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosvidaniya Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't really see a problem as long as all sides agree to PvP (either by being on a PvP server or flagging for PvP). As a rep player, on a PvE server I had an encounter with a sith who sneaked into our heroic 2 zone on Ilum and kept assisting mobs against republic players trying to do dailies. Sure, it's frustrating, but my first response was not "report him", but "/2 hey, anyone up for an ops to smoke an imp out of our h2 area?". It's part of the role-playing. Ask yourself a question: is it within your view of the depicted world to have sith aiding random creatures fighting republic soldiers? If it is, then it's perfectly within the rules. Now, if someone was to repeatedly aid mobs by healing them and was not flagged for PvP, that I would consider griefing because it's abusing the mechanics (but even then, the solution should not be to have players reported, but to switch mechanics so that a player healing mobs that are fighting the opposing faction is immediately flagged for PvP). Also, what you call "exploting mechanics" others might just call "tactics" :> One can argue the logic of it. However, most games take the stance that "creative" use of boss mechanics to kill other players is NOT pvp; it's griefing. In your case, you aren't talking about a world boss where one player's nonsense can stop a raid with little to no skill. I have stealth, if I repeatedly kill the adds on the belsavis boss just so you explode, what could you possibly do about it? You won't find me, I have stealth. I could sit there and tag the boss right as you pull. This one has a legit argument for world pvp. However, exploding the adds doesn't. I don't know if they were doing it, but if so, it really isn't pvp. It's just suicidal griefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I think attacking players on a PVP server is ok. That is, after all, the point of a PVP server. Arguably, if they are camping a spawn so that the person can't revive, it could be considered harassing, but anywhere else should be fine. However, I could see that "tagging" the boss for the purpose of preventing the other side from battling it (but not planning to battle it yourself) could be considered exploiting the game mechanics. If you attack the other players but not the boss I don't see a problem (or attacking the both the players and the boss and trying to win). Also, when it comes to harassing behaviour, a level 20 trying to complete a quest and being hammered by a group of level 50s over and over for no reason may have reason to complain. But we are talking about an attack on a group that is big enough to be taking on upper-level world bosses.... EDIT: Personally, I don't tend to attack enemy players when they are involved in a PVE battle, but I'm Light IV. I wouldn't expect someone Dark IV to follow the same rules. Edited February 18, 2012 by sjmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I think attacking players on a PVP server is ok. That is, after all, the point of a PVP server. Arguably, if they are camping a spawn so that the person can't revive, it could be considered harassing, but anywhere else should be fine. However, I could see that "tagging" the boss for the purpose of preventing the other side from battling it (but not planning to battle it yourself) could be considered exploiting the game mechanics. If you attack the other players but not the boss I don't see a problem (or attacking the both the players and the boss and trying to win). Also, when it comes to harassing behaviour, a level 20 trying to complete a quest and being hammered by a group of level 50s over and over for no reason may have reason to complain. But we are talking about an attack on a group that is big enough to be taking on upper-level world bosses.... EDIT: Personally, I don't tend to attack enemy players when they are involved in a PVE battle, but I'm Light IV. I wouldn't expect someone Dark IV to follow the same rules. You can very easily escape spawn camping... you can w8 for 15 seconds to revive yourself and get 12 seconds of stealth(8+4 due to pvp death) and even if you cant escape oyu just need another min to do it again and go further.... also you can go back to spawn to reset the time in that ressurect timer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 "Open world" PvP is one thing.......but denying another group of players access to content is another.... I would suspect there is a balance they are working here.... Did your group proceed to slay the world boss? ....or were you just killing off the republic players so they could not? huh ? they are on PVP ill say it again PVP server and if they see players anywhere in open no matter questing raiding etc they have the right to attack them players should know that going out of town means they can be attacked on PVP servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 huh ? they are on PVP ill say it again PVP server and if they see players anywhere in open no matter questing raiding etc they have the right to attack them players should know that going out of town means they can be attacked on PVP servers I agree with this. If this is not the case then BW needs to remove the pvp flag when players are fighting mobs. Or at least provide some way to tell if a player is in pve combat so pvpers can avoid "breaking the rules" by attacking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkJedi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) exact same thing that happened to me and my group when we attacked another group in open world PVP, (the encounter was on corellia) my group was level 50, and so was the other group except 1 he/she was level 42. after some pvp, 2 hrs later i got a mail in my inbox, so i went to the next nearest mail box to open and read it, it says that i was reported for harassment etc... and i sent tells to my other friends that were still online that was in the same group and asked them did they get the same mail. and long and behold yes they did. so world pvp isnt world pvp? and pvp server isnt a pvp server???? huh.... then what am i paying to play here? Edited February 18, 2012 by RkJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincedaddy Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 From the rules which we all agreed to on harassment: "Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy." You can't just do anything you like just because someone is in the other faction. That's bs I will camp everyone I come across and purposefully wipe every repub group I see attempting to kill a world boss. Why? Because I rolled on a pvp server and doing those things I listed is a lot of fun. If bioware wants to inform me that I'm griefing over these things I'll die laughing and instantly unsub because it's far from griefing it's world pvp the illuding concept that bioware can't seem to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 That's bs I will camp everyone I come across and purposefully wipe every repub group I see attempting to kill a world boss. Why? Because I rolled on a pvp server and doing those things I listed is a lot of fun. If bioware wants to inform me that I'm griefing over these things I'll die laughing and instantly unsub because it's far from griefing it's world pvp the illuding concept that bioware can't seem to understand. Then enjoy getting busted for it. Purposely denying players access to content over and over is griefing, as per the games ToS. Deal with it or go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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