Talizzar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is far too easy to do. I would suggest a change that if you have any negative effects that you can't go into stealth mode. Sure a dot breaks it sometime after he blows invis and runs away. Stealth detection needs to be changed that if 5 of you are wailing on the guy he just can't disappear. I play a stealth class and they have a purpose but getting back into stealth should time some time and planning. Maybe that is the answer. Put a cast time on entering stealth while in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazomir Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) you do realize that smuggler, if focused, dies really really fast? Thats why we need to get away fast. Also, stealth scan. Edited February 16, 2012 by Kazomir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 You realize that any class when focused dies pretty fast. Being able to stealth while being focused is just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blythestrong Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Smugglers/Operative DPS is still broken. Bioware knows it. Hopefully they will fix them. You will not survive their opening if they have cooldowns. The in-combat stealth to re-opener is entierly broken and needs to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) ITT: Operatives shouldn't have defensive cooldowns because they can get away every 2 or so minutes if my AOEs are off cooldown. Edited February 16, 2012 by Howbadisbad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is far too easy to do. I would suggest a change that if you have any negative effects that you can't go into stealth mode. Sure a dot breaks it sometime after he blows invis and runs away. Stealth detection needs to be changed that if 5 of you are wailing on the guy he just can't disappear. I play a stealth class and they have a purpose but getting back into stealth should time some time and planning. Maybe that is the answer. Put a cast time on entering stealth while in combat. I thought a little about this and considered my 4 second stealth ability really doesn't get me anywhere. I then read your complaint about stuns (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=306868) and then your post about Pulls and Jumps (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=274013) and realised that it was probably better not to add to the fire, because you will probably never run out of things to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJChief Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I thought a little about this and considered my 4 second stealth ability really doesn't get me anywhere. I then read your complaint about stuns (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=306868) and then your post about Pulls and Jumps (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=274013) and realised that it was probably better not to add to the fire, because you will probably never run out of things to complain about. Yup this is pretty much all true. I will however say that my heal spec Sage had some 1 v 1 time with the double bladed saber style inquisitor (like the Infiltration mirror) and once he used in-combat stealth there was pretty much nothing I could do to find him. Tried my knock-back but he had already got out of range. Then the only "reveal" I have is using my AoE and hope I find him. Seeing that this uses quite a bit of force I don't even bother. I'm not entirely sure it would be a good thing to give sage's stealth detect though... but stealthies shouldn't be able to disappear forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logisitcs Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I don't understand why DOTs don't break stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I don't understand why DOTs don't break stealth They do. They just have to cast their cleanse before they stealth, so they are using 2 cooldowns to escape vs 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yup this is pretty much all true. I will however say that my heal spec Sage had some 1 v 1 time with the double bladed saber style inquisitor (like the Infiltration mirror) and once he used in-combat stealth there was pretty much nothing I could do to find him. Tried my knock-back but he had already got out of range. Then the only "reveal" I have is using my AoE and hope I find him. Seeing that this uses quite a bit of force I don't even bother. I'm not entirely sure it would be a good thing to give sage's stealth detect though... but stealthies shouldn't be able to disappear forever. If this was on Illum or open world elsewhere, he probably had a WZ queue up waiting to use it. I've done this after jumping in to a zerg of enemies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipso Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yup this is pretty much all true. I will however say that my heal spec Sage had some 1 v 1 time with the double bladed saber style inquisitor (like the Infiltration mirror) and once he used in-combat stealth there was pretty much nothing I could do to find him. Tried my knock-back but he had already got out of range. Then the only "reveal" I have is using my AoE and hope I find him. Seeing that this uses quite a bit of force I don't even bother. I'm not entirely sure it would be a good thing to give sage's stealth detect though... but stealthies shouldn't be able to disappear forever. Yes they should be able to disappear "forever", It's your responsibility to make sure you do everything you can to keep them from gaining that advantage over you, if you choose not to do so dont react quick enough or have a skill on CD then thats on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This is the primary defensive cooldown for Operatives/ Smugglers, the only class with no knockbacks, sprints, leaps or other forms of escape from a bad situation. You may find it illogical that they can hide in plain sight, but balance is more important. DPS Ops/ Smuggs have already been nerfed into the dirt, and Healing Ops/ Sawbones are generally considered the least effective of the three healing AC's. For that matter, if five of you are beating on someone, perhaps one of you could toss out a stun to prevent the stealth, or a DoT to ensure that it breaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I play a stealth class No you don't, now shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You realize that any class when focused dies pretty fast. Being able to stealth while being focused is just dumb. THIS! Trust me...you're no more squishy than any other class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NessusFett Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 i have never once considered my force cloak to be overpowered. i do find it useful fir dipping on groups of enemies but i would say a solid 50% of the time it is ineffective either dot on me or aoe knocks me back out... and its on a 3 min cooldown... thats max 5 times a match usually about 2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlynn Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My only issue with stealthing in SWTOR is that they can use heals. Using any heal should pop you out of cloak. If you want to use Cloak as the free get out of jail card, then live with out of combat healing via no self heals or consumables. Also, any and all actions should break stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 you cant heal yourself while stealthed except with the shockfrozen water which is now useless as no one is going to spend 30 minutes to get it to use it once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Acherus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yup this is pretty much all true. I will however say that my heal spec Sage had some 1 v 1 time with the double bladed saber style inquisitor (like the Infiltration mirror) and once he used in-combat stealth there was pretty much nothing I could do to find him. Tried my knock-back but he had already got out of range. Then the only "reveal" I have is using my AoE and hope I find him. Seeing that this uses quite a bit of force I don't even bother. I'm not entirely sure it would be a good thing to give sage's stealth detect though... but stealthies shouldn't be able to disappear forever. Oh Chief, you are such a joker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is far too easy to do. I would suggest a change that if you have any negative effects that you can't go into stealth mode. Sure a dot breaks it sometime after he blows invis and runs away. Stealth detection needs to be changed that if 5 of you are wailing on the guy he just can't disappear. I play a stealth class and they have a purpose but getting back into stealth should time some time and planning. Maybe that is the answer. Put a cast time on entering stealth while in combat. Stealth in combat is either on a 3min or 2min cooldown depending on skill. Stealth is a staple move for Assassin/Shadow or Operative/Scoundrel aka STEALTH classes. Why are people so intent on literally changing something that is game design breaking on so many fronts. Stealth is working as intended in SWTOR, and is far less powerful than MANY other titles version of Stealth. It's really an okay move, it doesn't remove and status affects what so ever. So we are already exsposed to using our actual "combat" stealth and it be nullified in a second because of dots or CC. Normal stealth does NOT work while in combat. You just won't see it point blank unless gained through outside means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My only issue with stealthing in SWTOR is that they can use heals. Using any heal should pop you out of cloak. If you want to use Cloak as the free get out of jail card, then live with out of combat healing via no self heals or consumables. Also, any and all actions should break stealth. Healing does break stealth unless it is from another player or it is a consumable item... Shoakfrozenwater was wtfpwned so why are you still complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My only issue with stealthing in SWTOR is that they can use heals. LOLWUT? Using any heal should pop you out of cloak. It does. If you want to use Cloak as the free get out of jail card, then live with out of combat healing via no self heals or consumables. It does, secondarily there is only one tree in the stealth AC's that removes a 10 second -100% healing debuff for vanishing. Also, any and all actions should break stealth. So, loading flechette round designed to be used with an in stealth opener should break stealth to apply? I sincerely hope you're only trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My only issue with stealthing in SWTOR is that they can use heals. Using any heal should pop you out of cloak. If you want to use Cloak as the free get out of jail card, then live with out of combat healing via no self heals or consumables. Also, any and all actions should break stealth. Let me solve your only issue, then - You can't heal while stealthed. All our heals break stealth. In fact, if it was the in-combat version, using that ability debuffs Ops/ Scoundrels so they *cannot* heal for 10 seconds. It's a great bit of irony for the primary defensive cooldown of a healing class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) My only issue with stealthing in SWTOR is that they can use heals. Using any heal should pop you out of cloak. If you want to use Cloak as the free get out of jail card, then live with out of combat healing via no self heals or consumables. Also, any and all actions should break stealth. Using a heal potion or expertiese potion will bring you out of stealth. If you hit your Force Cloak (combat stealth) and then pop a green or red pot. Guess what? You're no longer in stealth. I know there's the thing with the Shock water or whatever but that is not working as intended. The intended use should bring you out of stealth. As for healing in stealth while using your combat stealth, you actually have to spec in that to be able to be healed for the first few seconds (maybe 5) when you are more than likely trying to escape. Taking stealth from stealth classes would be like taking the blasters out of a mercs hand any making him use fistacuffs.. Makes no sense man.. If people are sorely hung up on how stealth classes work in RPG's refer to D&D ruleset on Assassins. The building blocks of MMO's. D&D has been the source for MMORPG's for decades. They are not directly transfered over verbatim, but the basic class set up remains the same. A taste of what I'm talking about: The abilities of an assassin are aimed at being able to kill or incapacitate a target while reducing the risk to the individual assassin. They are skilled at dealing unexpected damage from sneak attacks and can poison their blades without the risk of accidentally poisoning themselves. With training they can deliver sneak attacks that can instantly kill their targets; alternatively, if the target is wanted alive they can merely paralyze the target, allowing time for them to be tied up, placed in manacles or otherwise restrained. At higher levels assassins can even hide themselves while in plain sight of an enemy. Edited February 16, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowerydro Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Assassin here... Basically vanish (force cloak) is useless when multiple people are focusing you. You have to combine it with force shroud to remove dots and prevent damage from bringing you out of stealth again. I would say in a situation fighting 3+ people it works maybe 1/5 times. The rest of the time there will be a remaining dot that brings you out, delayed damage like on the Project ability that brings you out, or the game calculates damage after you vanish but before you shroud so you come out of stealth instantly. Geee, all we have to do is limit ourselves to pvp'ing in tank stance for survivability or to pvp in light armor with no defenses in order to get it. So someone got away from you.... live with it. They got away so they could go heal up and ARE NOT FIGHTING. You claim you are worried about group fights which mean you are talking about team gameplay, well you got rid of one player for about the same time it takes to spawn and run back so your team still benefits. What people really need to learn to do is stop obsessing about the one that got away and go back to focusing on the game when one does get away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravestrike Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Stealth is a utility tool that replaces the other utility tools other classes get that stealth classes don't get. Sure, I find it frustrating when someone stealths away. I'm sure plenty of people find it frustrating when they blow up my sorc bubble just to have me recast it just in time to absorb another couple of thousand damage. Diversification of utility is good. Edited February 16, 2012 by Gravestrike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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