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Theme Park vs Sandbox, What Do The Players Think?


Hendrickson

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If you played Eve without dying you played it completely wrong.

 

 

haha...no, let me laugh again...haha...You just said that I've played a SANDBOX game wrong. Do you even know how absurd you sound? I stopped reading after that as the rest of your opinion surely is questionable at best.

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I would also add to this Minecraft. There are Minecraft servers that have hundreds of players on them. Game has had over $4 million US in sales. One guy developed it, I might add...not a few hundred like SWTOR.

 

Just to clarify, Minecraft had broken 4 million actual sales in November of 2011. It has made well more than $4 million.

 

4 million sales x $15(?) = $60 million+

 

Also, it was started by one guy, but he now has hired a small team of developers.

Edited by marshalleck
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Minecraft is not an mmo.

neither is World of Tanks (just wanted to throw that out there)

 

Minecraft most certainly CAN be. You'all complaining about 2 players on Fleet, and Minecraft has hundreds of players on homebrew servers (another nice innovation btw). Look at the Middle Earth Server if you doubt me, and there are others. I even believe I read one server had upwards of 1000 users, but I don't remember the name, nor the source for that, and don't have time to search.

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If you played Eve without dying you played it completely wrong.

 

That's somewhat defeating the point of a sandbox-game though, isn't it? You can't really play it "wrong" as long as you enjoy it. In a themepark game, the "point" is to progress to max level, get the best gear and complete all the quests/instances allong the way.

 

In a sandbox game, the "point" is to create an avatar and enter a virtual world where you then do what you want to do. If you can do that "wrong", it's not a sandbox...

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Just to clarify, Minecraft had broken 4 million actual sales in November of 2011. It has made well more than $4 million.

 

4 million sales x $15(?) = $60 million+

 

Also, it was started by one guy, but he now has hired a small team of developers.

 

Yes. Of course you're correct. I need coffee.

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Anyone that designs a game to be either is being daft IMO.

 

And decent game should be both.

 

Exactly. SWG added theme park elements toward its end, BW should introduce more (or any sandboxy) content. Space, crafting and housing would seem like good first choices.

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That's somewhat defeating the point of a sandbox-game though, isn't it? You can't really play it "wrong" as long as you enjoy it. In a themepark game, the "point" is to progress to max level, get the best gear and complete all the quests/instances allong the way.

 

In a sandbox game, the "point" is to create an avatar and enter a virtual world where you then do what you want to do. If you can do that "wrong", it's not a sandbox...

 

 

Thank you. I made a career out of doing several things over the 5+ years I've played. I was an asteroid miner (still do occasionally), then I dabbled in Hauling goods through middle Sec space. I kitted out an exploration ship and explored anomalies. Oh, and I did missions for a while too, but they were kinda boring.

 

The only reason I got bored with EVE was the lack of an avatar. Got tired of staring at a ship all the time. Resubbed recently for their new Avatar patch (forget the name). Loved the look of the character gen system, and the look of the avatar, but my computer could hardly handle the animation, haha. And only being able to walk around on a bridge was a bit underwhelming.

 

Teh PvPers in EVE are mostly Paper tigers. ;)

Edited by Cerion
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Ok so you spent your entire time in high sec doing activities that represented the least amount of danger.

 

Yep, you did it wrong.

 

I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

I'm sorry that I hurt your EVE ego, lol. What part of 5 years of playing don't you understand? Because I didn't play a SANDBOX game your way, I played it wrong? **** me that's absurd. I'm surprised you even play SWTOR then, haha.

 

I've quoted my accomplishments in EVE. I could care less if I interacted with anybody else during my time there as long as they bought my ore off the market (which I always sold at high price, mind you, never the default).

 

 

EDIT: since you edited your post while I was replying, let me add...yes, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is. Resorting to that internet meme is the last refuge of a lost cause...you should know that from the EVE forums, lol.

Edited by Cerion
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Here's what I don't get and I'm not picking on this poster specifically. Sandboxes are just empty spaces with a lot of sand. It's up to the imagination of the child to entertain themselves.

 

So...what exactly is stopping folks from creating their own fun in SWTOR?

 

If you want to play the economic game, there is money to be made in crew skills.

 

If you want to just fight evil where ever you find it, there are plenty of Heroic quests. Sure they might not give 'teh phat lewtz' but it can be fun to stomp lowbie mobs.

 

If you want to socialize with your fellow players, what stops you from announcing a party at a Cantina on a neutral world and have S**T talking contests with the other faction?

 

If you want to PvP, then head to the open areas and don't worry about medals, just have fun.

 

What I find most mystifying about these threads is that sandboxes are all about using your imagination to have fun, but there seems to be an extreme deficit of imagination among the playerbase.

 

Interesting question. Nothing is stopping players from inventing their own fun in SWTOR (apart from sharding and instancing, arguably), certainly. Then again, nothing is encouraging them to do it either. While on the other hand, everything in the game is encouraging them to stick to the pre-set ride. You can't level to max level without at least doing most of the class quests. And if you could, it'd be silly because that's half the game right there... You need to follow a lot of the rails to get to the end. You can of course decide not to even want to get there, and find your own fun in repeating heroic quests on the starter planet, but that's not really finding your own fun, but rather gimping yourself by playing the game "wrong".

 

A sandbox game allows for players to find their own way of playing, essentially making it impossible to play it "wrong" (within the limits of the game's basics, still, of course. If you enjoy jumping from platform to platform you might find somewhere to do this in a sandbox game, but you'd be better of buying a platform game).

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I want a predominantly themepark MMO, with specific areas of the game devoted to sandbox.

 

This continues the "streamlined" experience of modern MMOs (themepark), while also allowing creativity and player-based replayability without significant content additions by the developers (sandbox).

 

It's the best of both worlds.

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I think a mix of both would work really nice, a theme park type story line for a little direction and single player action mixed with a large sandbox enviroment for open world PVP and other highly social aspects like player cities, player run vendors, and make crafting relevant for a player run economy. Edited by offem
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Anybody play Vanguard? I've tried it a few times, but it just never grows on me. It looks rather beautiful, and I like the diplomacy mini-game, but it starts to loose its luster around 15lvl and becomes a grind. It feels like it could be a good Sandbox, but why hasn't it taken off as such?

 

That is what I like least about Sandboxy games...when they substitute grind for content (or even Themeparks substituting grind for content).

Edited by Cerion
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Ok so you spent your entire time in high sec doing activities that represented the least amount of danger.

 

Yep, you did it wrong.

 

I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

You are indeed entitled to your opinion. And if your opinion is that his way of enjoying himself is "wrong", that's fine.

 

But if your opinion is that he failed to grasp the intent of EVE by playing without engaging in PvP, than I'm afraid you are wrong.

 

Now, I'm not saying one can never play a game "wrong" as long as one enjoys it (though you could argue that, but I won't). If you enjoy "racing", sure, you can grab a speeder in SWTOR and race through the cities, but you would be better of getting a racing game. Therefore, you'd be playing the game "wrong" (though who cares if you're enjoying yourself... but that's beside the point here).

 

However, that's not what he did it seems. He found things to do in EVE that he enjoyed, and did them. What, exactly, is wrong with that? Which game should he have chosen that would better suit his playstyle?

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I really can't tolerate themepark MMO's for more than a few months at a time. From a development standpoint, the rate at which developers have to produce content is absurd, and the only company I've seen keep up is Trion. I'm sick of playing MMO's how the developers decide I should play them. Give players the tools to create their own content.

 

However, I realize that a pure sandbox game is not likely to come from any of the big name companies because big name companies are adverse to taking risks, and a sandbox MMO would certainly be a risk. I'd settle for something in between; don't make the whole damn game on-rails (looking at you Bioware.)

 

Archeage looks promising, but I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet.

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Like many posters here have stated, an MMO that is a mixture of both themepark (the levelling experience) and sandbox (the endgame experience) would be ideal, IMO.

 

EvE is a full on sandbox...but it's way too complex for most gamers to get their hooks into (yes I've played EvE since 2008). It's a great game for what it is, but its limited in many ways too....human nature being what it is, right now a massive coalition of player corporations are holding control of most of nullsec space (which is the space that players can entirely control), and things have gone quite static in the game for a year or so now. EvE has VERY little to offer the casual gamer or solo gamer though...to make that game shine you have to get into a player corporation and devote a fair bit of time to it.

 

Casual gamers (which Blizzard has demonstrated is the vast majority of the market) are looking for something that requires less commitment than that.

 

Themepark MMO's have a big problem because they end...you run out of things to do eventually...even a casual player will hit the endgame and try aspects of it, but again it all requires grouping and more time comittment.

 

I wish there were MMO's that you could actually progress in a significant way without having to organize groups of people...there should always be an option to do that because its fun SOMETIMES...but the endgame should also include significant things you can do on your own.

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EVE Online is my favorite game in the entire MMO genre. No matter what game I try out for a couple of months, I always end up unsubbing and going back to EVE. The funny thing is; every time I go back to EVE, there's still at least half a dozen things in the game that I have never done. Not even once. Entire sections of the game unexplored that I can try every time I come back and I've been non-stop subbing the game for 7 years now.

 

No other game offers that kind of experience (Except for Perpetuum Online, but it's just an EVE Clone with mechs that's still in it's infancy). For me, the rest of the MMO world is nothing but an interesting diversion until I wear out the content (very quickly) and go back to building my own sand castles in EVE.

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I prefer an open sandbox type game with some theme parks thrown in to visit. The final version of DAoC were a good example. In that game you could basically do anything you wanted and level many different ways, PvP and crafting were totally seperate and great fun, then you had things like Champion levels and the Master levels in Atlantis which were basically theme parked PvE areas which you could do if you chose to. It was a good combo in the end.
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I prefer an open sandbox type game with some theme parks thrown in to visit. The final version of DAoC were a good example. In that game you could basically do anything you wanted and level many different ways, PvP and crafting were totally seperate and great fun, then you had things like Champion levels and the Master levels in Atlantis which were basically theme parked PvE areas which you could do if you chose to. It was a good combo in the end.

 

 

 

I think if any game beats WoW it'll be one that merges both well.

 

I'm not convinced any game will ever beat WoW for peak sub numbers though.

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