Aximand Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 That technique requires the user to absorb the attack in order to redirect it... if it was a simple redirect he could have flung the force storm back at Vitiate... Yoda does this technique to Sidious in Ep 3. Force Deflection =/= Force Absorption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) That technique requires the user to absorb the attack in order to redirect it... if it was a simple redirect he could have flung the force storm back at Vitiate... Yoda does this technique to Sidious in Ep 3. This should show you that such an ability is not nearly as extraordinary as some make it out to be, Revan used a form of Tutaminis to deflect Force lightning, the page itself states so: "Revan used this ability to deflect a powerful barrage of Force Lightning back at Darth Nyriss, incinerating her with her own power in the process." Edited April 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 This should show you that such an ability is not nearly as extraordinary as some make it out to be, Revan used a form of Tutaminis to deflect Force lightning, the page itself states so: "Revan used this ability to deflect a powerful barrage of Force Lightning back at Darth Nyriss, incinerating her with her own power in the process." And he didn't even actually absorb it so its more of a bastardized version of Tutaminis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 And he didn't even actually absorb it so its more of a bastardized version of Tutaminis. Pretty much, I think we are finally making progress, debunking is so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) And Sid used rituals to amplify his powers allowing him to 'recharge'.. He learned all of that from Plag and Sith Holocrons.. not really that special.. he had the time and he didn't have to fear anyone coming after him. He did those Rituals By Himself. Especially since the only other Sith was Plageuis. And all he did was provide him with resources. They didn't do a ritual to temporarily enhance Vitiate.. that Ritual made him immortal.. and it hasn't been said how many times he has done it since then. The Ritual Enhanced his hatred and power in the Dark-Side temproarily, to feed on the remaining. The Permanent effect was immortality. Vitiate can do the same thing.. after all he's an Archetype of Sidious. He cannot transfer his essence. Where does it state that, I think Sid is the only one to be able to do that. Actually what he attacked Revan with in his chambers was a Force Storm. It wasn't a force Storm, it was a storm of Lightning Bolts. There is a difference. Sid's Force Storms were actual clouds of Dark-Side energy, and they were massive. They consumed Fleets and Space Stations. Answers in bold. Edited April 14, 2012 by BrandonSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I know all that about sidious. I just dont care, its a very lame character i never did like him at all. Facepalm.. Just because you don't like him doesn't take away his position as most powerful sith in galactic history. If that would've worked then I could just use my opinion to give his power back, you'd take it away, I'd give it back.. and there you have an example why this should stay objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelna Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 two people I want to read numerous books about: Darth Sidious and Master Yoda. Sidious was so powerful, we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with what we have seen. and the movies don't even come close to showing how powerful he was. The man fights as a cloud or something of the sort. I mean, just how powerful was he? Yoda is just plain old ****** and you want to know everything about him. Luke skywalker, we are getting to see his story unfold in (sci-fi) real time. but he is obviously more powerful than any jedi before him and probably by now, could woop Darth sid's azz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Answers in bold. To be fair Vitiate is the only Sith so far to be shown to have "true" immortality(unless im missing somebody), while Plagueis commenting the same thing. With the essence Transfer. He puts a portion of his essence/soul into all his children + his voice. The Emperors Hands comment about it. Id say Vitiates Essence Transfer is the stronger form of Sidious's... Other then that Sidious > Vitiate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenbrand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Answers in bold. Would be good if you actually quoted each section or numbered them off instead of doing that. "And Sid used rituals to amplify his powers allowing him to 'recharge'.. He learned all of that from Plag and Sith Holocrons.. not really that special.. he had the time and he didn't have to fear anyone coming after him. He did those Rituals By Himself. Especially since the only other Sith was Plageuis. And all he did was provide him with resources. They didn't do a ritual to temporarily enhance Vitiate.. that Ritual made him immortal.. and it hasn't been said how many times he has done it since then. The Ritual Enhanced his hatred and power in the Dark-Side temproarily, to feed on the remaining. The Permanent effect was immortality. Vitiate can do the same thing.. after all he's an Archetype of Sidious. He cannot transfer his essence. Where does it state that, I think Sid is the only one to be able to do that. Actually what he attacked Revan with in his chambers was a Force Storm. It wasn't a force Storm, it was a storm of Lightning Bolts. There is a difference. Sid's Force Storms were actual clouds of Dark-Side energy, and they were massive. They consumed Fleets and Space Stations." 1. No where does it say that he did it by himself or with others. Lest you forget Sidious did use force sensitives and trained them in the Empire. 2. It wasn't a temporary effect as evidenced by his increased powers after the ritual was done and how much it was sustained after it was done. 3. Warrior Story line goes through with this in detail. 4. You're talking about differences in sizes.. why would you need to conjure a force storm on Palpatine's level in a 1v1 fight? So far, what the Vitiate can do (the full extent of his powers is unknown). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Um...Sidious can do that too ya know. Seem to recall that he fried an entire batallion of stormtroopers, and turned a few darkside acolytes to ash with it too. Also remember Revan deflected that lighting back, it wasn't his lighting. Any powerful force user with strong lighting, can turn someone to ash/kill them. So the ability to deflect and redirect to the caster that strong lighting doesnt count for nothing ? this And Force Deflection is actually a matter of control, not power. so you dont need to be powerfull to control it? off course you do. Facepalm.. Just because you don't like him doesn't take away his position as most powerful sith in galactic history. If that would've worked then I could just use my opinion to give his power back, you'd take it away, I'd give it back.. and there you have an example why this should stay objective. sight yes it is a matter of opinion they are fictional characters, they are as strong as one wants it to be. being the strongest sith in history aparently doesnt count for anything, when he can be shot in the back and puff is dead. what we are debating here in this threads is all what if scenarios, based on information previously gathered, but even then it doesnt count for anything the writters imagination has all the power. I could easy make revan defeat sidious, in Star wars universe and wouldnt be that far fecthed, the reverse is also true. Hell i can even make carth onasi or HK47 kill sidious, and wouldnt be that absurd since it could happen. People considering canon lore has the highest set of rule for every what if scenario that anyone can conjure its what is laughable. In the end yes its a matter of opinion. Because all that scenarios dont exist, no one write it yet. Edited April 15, 2012 by Spartanik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenbrand Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Pretty much, I think we are finally making progress, debunking is so much fun. Debunking is so much fun.. when you do it right.. "Revan stretched out his hands, and absorbed the deadly power of the dark side. Revan mocked Nyriss and redirected her power back at her." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 sight yes it is a matter of opinion they are fictional characters, they are as strong as one wants it to be. being the strongest sith in history aparently doesnt count for anything, when he can be shot in the back and puff is dead. what we are debating here in this threads is all what if scenarios, based on information previously gathered, but even then it doesnt count for anything the writters imagination has all the power. I could easy make revan defeat sidious, in Star wars universe and wouldnt be that far fecthed, the reverse is also true. Hell i can even make carth onasi or HK47 kill sidious, and wouldnt be that absurd since it could happen. People considering canon lore has the highest set of rule for every what if scenario that anyone can conjure its what is laughable. In the end yes its a matter of opinion. Because all that scenarios dont exist, no one write it yet. So, by your logic.. (That it's all about opinion) I could pretend that I love Sidious to death and say that he's invincible and that he can do this & that and cannot be killed by anybody. I could aslso say that Revan is invincible and can do this & that and cannot be killed because that's my personal opinion? Pretty fail logic, I'll never be able to understand how opinion can be used as an argument. I can understand if the thread actually asks for your opinion, for example a thread about your favorite characters. But vs. threads are based of what characters have done in their lives and you measure those accomplishments & skills with the opponent and find out who would win without any opinion in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Debunking is so much fun.. when you do it right.. "Revan stretched out his hands, and absorbed the deadly power of the dark side. Revan mocked Nyriss and redirected her power back at her." Ah mistake you are making HmHmHm. It does not mean absorbed the lightning, but the Dark Side, just as Tutaminis does, it doesn't mean anything, because it is the Force absorbing the force it is a wall built by the Force when you call upon it. Satele does this when Malgus goes to finish her, does it mean Satele's command over the force is greater than the contained plasma of a Lightsaber? no, because it is about controlling the energy, Jedi learned Tutaminis as part of their basic training. This shows quite clearly in the cracking of Malgus' lightsaber, the amount of space it required was no longer there, it was cracking under the strain, the Crystal itself probably would've exploded, if she was just absorbing it, the blade wouldn't do that. The long and short, Revan absorbed nothing, he redirected it back at her. Edited April 15, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetowelboy Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Why is this even a question? Revan casts force lightning. Vader's breathing apparatus stops working. Fight over. I'd also throw out that as time goes on the new generations of force users get less powerful and I would be willing to say that Revan is a significantly more powerful force user than Darth Vader as well as a better lightsaber combatant with Vader's slow cybernetics in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Why is this even a question? Revan casts force lightning. Vader's breathing apparatus stops working. Fight over. I'd also throw out that as time goes on the new generations of force users get less powerful and I would be willing to say that Revan is a significantly more powerful force user than Darth Vader as well as a better lightsaber combatant with Vader's slow cybernetics in mind. The lack of knowledge in this one is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Why is this even a question? Revan casts force lightning. Vader's breathing apparatus stops working. Fight over. I'd also throw out that as time goes on the new generations of force users get less powerful and I would be willing to say that Revan is a significantly more powerful force user than Darth Vader as well as a better lightsaber combatant with Vader's slow cybernetics in mind. No...just no, I can name 10 force users in the PT era alone that would wipe the floor with Revan. Also Vader's cybernetics making him slow?....Right...the jedi he killed while in the suit, who were younger and more agile then he was would like a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 No...just no, I can name 10 force users in the PT era alone that would wipe the floor with Revan. Also Vader's cybernetics making him slow?....Right...the jedi he killed while in the suit, who were younger and more agile then he was would like a word with you. And I can name 10 force users that would wipe the floor with Vader. What's your point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 And I can name 10 force users that would wipe the floor with Vader. What's your point ? Name them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Name them. Abeloth Sidious Luke Windu Yoda Exar Kun Ulic Qel-Droma Nihilus Sion Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Abeloth Sidious Luke Windu Yoda Exar Kun Ulic Qel-Droma Nihilus Sion Marka Ragnos You got me. I admit defeat for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 You got me. I admit defeat for that one. Heheh ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) I really think the EU powers go overboard. Why build a Deathstar when you can just drain a planet to death without spending the insane amount of resources? Exactly. I'm still waiting for Luke to go all KAMEHAMEHA!!!!!!!! on the next sith he sees. Power Level ranking: Luke:12000 Vader:10000 Sidious:12500 Revan:8000 Kyle Katarn:It's over 9000!!!!!!!!!!!! And here's the kicker. John Williams: UNLIMITED POWAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited April 15, 2012 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) And I can name 10 force users that would wipe the floor with Vader. What's your point ? From the PT era? That wasn't my point though, the point was that there are better lightsaber combatants/force users then Revan. Edited April 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErthAnjil Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If Revan would lose in a lightsaber duel, or a battle of force, I'm not sure he would place himself in that situation. Revan in my opinion has superior intellect, and willpower, and support from his allies and friends to bolster his strength. I think Revan would win in the end if he knew what he was going up against. I mean revan would have probably beaten the emperor too if he hadn't been betrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If Revan would lose in a lightsaber duel, or a battle of force, I'm not sure he would place himself in that situation. Revan in my opinion has superior intellect, and willpower, and support from his allies and friends to bolster his strength. I think Revan would win in the end if he knew what he was going up against. I mean revan would have probably beaten the emperor too if he hadn't been betrayed. That explained why he rushed the Emepror head on and was knocked down in seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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