Vader vs Revan

[ErthAnjil]

That explained why he rushed the Emepror head on and was knocked down in seconds?

 

getting knocked down means you lost? I've seen boxing fights where people get knocked out, get up, and then win. Your comment is irrelevant.

[BrandonSM]

getting knocked down means you lost? I've seen boxing fights where people get knocked out, get up, and then win. Your comment is irrelevant.

 

By Knocked Down I meant Beaten.

 

 

He was beaten in moments, nearly killed had it not been for Meetra...

Edited April 16, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Ravenbrand]

Ah mistake you are making HmHmHm.

 

It does not mean absorbed the lightning, but the Dark Side, just as Tutaminis does, it doesn't mean anything, because it is the Force absorbing the force it is a wall built by the Force when you call upon it.

 

Satele does this when Malgus goes to finish her, does it mean Satele's command over the force is greater than the contained plasma of a Lightsaber? no, because it is about controlling the energy, Jedi learned Tutaminis as part of their basic training.

 

This shows quite clearly in the cracking of Malgus' lightsaber, the amount of space it required was no longer there, it was cracking under the strain, the Crystal itself probably would've exploded, if she was just absorbing it, the blade wouldn't do that.

 

The long and short, Revan absorbed nothing, he redirected it back at her.

 

Just because you absorb something doesn't mean the energy magically disappears.

 

There is a huge difference between basic Tutaminis users and those who have mastered it.

 

Shows what? That she was using force deflection not Tutaminis.. yes.

 

In short.. you've proven nothing.

[Rayla_Felana]

Just because you absorb something doesn't mean the energy magically disappears.

 

There is a huge difference between basic Tutaminis users and those who have mastered it.

 

Shows what? That she was using force deflection not Tutaminis.. yes.

 

In short.. you've proven nothing.

 

What I believe is the true matter here, is that you simply won't acknowledge something, and are debating against the fact here.

 

Revan reflected that lightning, if you don't accept my word for it, go and read any Wookieepedia page with information on the matter, it will state he reflected the lightning.

[Thelna]

And I can name 10 force users that would wipe the floor with Vader. What's your point ?

 

 

YOU CAN NOT NAME 3. and all you could make is an argument that 2 of the jedi or sith would have a shot at beating Vader. But, Vaders training was incomplete. so, maybe you could make a good argument.

[Aurbere]

From the PT era? That wasn't my point though, the point was that there are better lightsaber combatants/force users then Revan.

 

Like Mace Windu. Beast mode engaged.

[Roflrawl]

REVAN!!!! would win for one reason and one reason only.... he is revan

[Ravenbrand]

What I believe is the true matter here, is that you simply won't acknowledge something, and are debating against the fact here.

 

Revan reflected that lightning, if you don't accept my word for it, go and read any Wookieepedia page with information on the matter, it will state he reflected the lightning.

 

That quote was directly from the Wookieepedia page.. it stated that he absorbed and reflected it.

 

You simply won't acknowledge that he did both while I'm saying he did. You said he reflected while I said he did both.

 

So please, let's talk more about who's not acknowledging what.

 

Here's the entire quote right here.

 

Nyriss then paused to prepare for the killing blow as the air around her began to crackle and grow hot. While she gloated about her past accomplishments, Revan emerged from his cell, with his Jedi robe pulled over his head and his mask on his face. Nyriss unleashed a swirling storm of pure dark side energy to incinerate her opponents. Revan stretched out his hands, and absorbed the deadly power of the dark side. Revan mocked Nyriss and redirected her power back at her. Nyriss got engufled by her own power and failed to prevent the deadly bolts from ripping her apart, reducing her into a pile of ash.[2]

 

Both. Done.. end of discussion. It seems that the people that say he only redirected it didn't want to admit that he absorbed the lightning and redirected it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ravenbrand

[Sporadicus]

Revan would win for me as I have read the book, played KOTOR 1 and 2 also TOR :>.

as fop Darth vader I have only seen the movies on him as I used to like him, but now no matter how good the books make him#(not that I like that ear of star wars as they are stuck to close to the movies as they have to), every time I think of him I see Hayden Christensen.

for me the prequel movies compleley ruined Darth vader, turned him into some stupid kid with mother issues, also his 'turn to the dark side' was pathetic and idiotic. (yes I know it was lucas fault and Hayden Christensen's in ability to act, but still, he is just ruined for me.

 

also revan is a much more fleshed out character for me so he wins hands down, also we have seen his greatness (kotor) unlike vader (cool in 4th and 5th, but not rest as lucas ruined him)

 

still, James Earl Jones, what an amazing voice :>

[Wolfninjajedi]

Revan would win for me as I have read the book, played KOTOR 1 and 2 also TOR :>.

as fop Darth vader I have only seen the movies on him as I used to like him, but now no matter how good the books make him#(not that I like that ear of star wars as they are stuck to close to the movies as they have to), every time I think of him I see Hayden Christensen.

for me the prequel movies compleley ruined Darth vader, turned him into some stupid kid with mother issues, also his 'turn to the dark side' was pathetic and idiotic. (yes I know it was lucas fault and Hayden Christensen's in ability to act, but still, he is just ruined for me.

 

also revan is a much more fleshed out character for me so he wins hands down, also we have seen his greatness (kotor) unlike vader (cool in 4th and 5th, but not rest as lucas ruined him)

 

still, James Earl Jones, what an amazing voice :>

 

So...let me get this straight, you think Revan is a much more fleshed out character who has only had 1 game devoted to him and a novel...compared to Darth Vader who had 6 movies evolving in each one, plus books further fleshing him out and a tv show?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Enkenon]

James Bond can kill both of them with one arm,

[BrandonSM]

That quote was directly from the Wookieepedia page.. it stated that he absorbed and reflected it.

 

You simply won't acknowledge that he did both while I'm saying he did. You said he reflected while I said he did both.

 

So please, let's talk more about who's not acknowledging what.

 

Here's the entire quote right here.

 

 

 

Both. Done.. end of discussion. It seems that the people that say he only redirected it didn't want to admit that he absorbed the lightning and redirected it.

 

And the Novel states he used her own power against her.

 

Page 248 "Revan"

 

 

"Nyriss's eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash."

 

 

Not sure who's side of the arguement that helps, but that is straight from the book.

Edited April 16, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Ravenbrand]

And the Novel states he used her own power against her.

 

Page 248 "Revan"

 

 

"Nyriss's eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash."

 

 

Not sure who's side of the arguement that helps, but that is straight from the book.

 

Actually.. mine.. as redirection does not have the user absorbing it and unleashing it back out on the caster.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ravenbrand

[Jurakan]

The most powerful amount of sith where in the old republic. The sith from the new era (exception of Palpatine) lack many powers and much knowledge that was just destroyed or unavailable to them. Palpatine never cared to share his knowledge with Vader so essence transfer and many sith abilities will forever remained unknown to him. Also there was much Palpatine didn't learn from his own master because he killed him too prematurely so he wasn't as wise as he could have been. In the old republic force users where not in the brink of extintion so do the math.

 

In lightsaber combat vader was brute force and Revan was tactical and methodical. I would take Revan over Vader any time as Revan never failed badly enough against anyone to have so much of his body reconstructed and even when captured by the emperor he was still kept alive due to his knowledge and strength in the force were anyone else would have been smoked.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Jurakan

[Wolfninjajedi]

The most powerful sith and jedi where in the old republic specifically the sith. The sith from the new era lack many powers and much knowledge that was just destroyed or unavailable to them. Palpatine never cared to share his knowledge with Vader so essence transfer and many sith abilities will forever remained unknown to him. In the old republic force users where not in the brink of extintion so do the math.

 

Vader was brute force and Revan was tactical and methodical. I would take Revan over Vader any time as Revan never failed badly enough against anyone to have so much of his body reconstructed.

 

Alright lets see.....

 

1. No they weren't, most powerful jedi/sith was during the PT era. Don't know how many times, this has been stated already.

 

2. Err...again no they didn't, Palpatine learned everything previously lost, current and unknown and could make new powers on a whim.

 

3. This is really the only thing that is somewhat truthful, though I would imagine in some books that Palpatine at least taught Vader something.

 

4. Neither were the jedi of the PT, up until the purge.

 

5. Hmm...ok so your saying Vader wasn't tactical?...I guess him leading the 501st legion isn't something to note..and it is said that he is a brilliant strategist.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Jurakan]

Alright lets see.....

 

1. No they weren't, most powerful jedi/sith was during the PT era. Don't know how many times, this has been stated already.

 

Jedi perhaps but not Sith except for Palpatine.

 

2. Err...again no they didn't, Palpatine learned everything previously lost, current and unknown and could make new powers on a whim.

 

That explains why he failed to make himself immortal. If he knew everything there was why didn't he absorb a planet like many sith lords in the old republic era to sustain or even prolong his life? Even you have to admit he met a dumb and predictable ending until he came back cloned and then he met another dumb and predictable ending.

 

3. This is really the only thing that is somewhat truthful, though I would imagine in some books that Palpatine at least taught Vader something.

 

He did but only small grains of sand in comparison to his own knowledge. Same as he did with Count Dooku.

 

 

5. Hmm...ok so your saying Vader wasn't tactical?...I guess him leading the 501st legion isn't something to note..and it is said that he is a brilliant strategist.

 

I meant in lightsaber combat. Leading troops he was tactical but in combat against strong force users he choked and paid the price (with body parts) in most of his most important battles against both Light and Dark side. Revan was more patient so he would beat him like Obi Wan did. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. He would make Anakin beat himself up.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Jurakan

[Castiel]

YOU CAN NOT NAME 3. and all you could make is an argument that 2 of the jedi or sith would have a shot at beating Vader. But, Vaders training was incomplete. so, maybe you could make a good argument.

 

Erh, I did name 10, and they'd all beat Vader. Go read up.

[BrandonSM]

Actually.. mine.. as redirection does not have the user absorbing it and unleashing it back out on the caster.

 

 

It also states in a few lines above

 

 

248 'Revan' Novel

 

"Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulders heigh, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide. He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling away from their intended targets and absorbing the power."

 

 

So I guess the arguement is at an end? IDK? But thats straight from the book.

[BrandonSM]

Alright lets see.....

 

1. No they weren't, most powerful jedi/sith was during the PT era. Don't know how many times, this has been stated already.

 

Jedi perhaps but not Sith except for Palpatine.

 

2. Err...again no they didn't, Palpatine learned everything previously lost, current and unknown and could make new powers on a whim.

 

That explains why he failed to make himself immortal. If he knew everything there was why didn't he absorb a planet like many sith lords in the old republic era to sustain or even prolong his life? Even you have to admit he met a dumb and predictable ending until he came back cloned and then he met another dumb and predictable ending.

 

3. This is really the only thing that is somewhat truthful, though I would imagine in some books that Palpatine at least taught Vader something.

 

He did but only small grains of sand in comparison to his own knowledge. Same as he did with Count Dooku.

 

 

5. Hmm...ok so your saying Vader wasn't tactical?...I guess him leading the 501st legion isn't something to note..and it is said that he is a brilliant strategist.

 

I meant in lightsaber combat. Leading troops he was tactical but in combat against strong force users he choked and paid the price (with body parts) in most of his most important battles against both Light and Dark side. Revan was more patient so he would beat him like Obi Wan did. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. He would make Anakin beat himself up.

 

 

1. Incorrect, I'd understand how you wouldn't say the Sith are not the strongest if you didn't read the Bane books. But the Banite Sith(Ro2) are the strongest lineage of Sith.

 

2. Palps knew Essence Transfer. Thats pretty much immortality since you can transfer your spirit to other bodies. The reason he didn't learn immortality, which he was going to was because he had to kill Plageuis for the Grand Plan. Which would you choose? Gaining the ultimate Sith Goal and destryoing the Jedi and Republic. Or becoming Immortal and ruining your chances?

 

5. Vader is one of streongest Sith duelists. He took down some of the most powerful Jedi from the Prequels and hunted them down. Shall I recommend you look up what happened on Kessel. He walked into a room full of Order 66 survivors, looking for Kenobi. But they attacked him, he killed 5 out of the 7 Jedi Masters. Those are Jedi Masters from the Prequels I should let you know.

 

Post-Mustafar, Vader become much smarter. Even though he was Dark-Sided he learned his lesson from rushing enemies and such. If you actually watch any of the OT fights and read EU fights, his fighting style changed allot from Pre-Mustafar. Most of the times he let the enemies come to him.

[Castiel]

1. Incorrect, I'd understand how you wouldn't say the Sith are not the strongest if you didn't read the Bane books. But the Banite Sith(Ro2) are the strongest lineage of Sith.

 

2. Palps knew Essence Transfer. Thats pretty much immortality since you can transfer your spirit to other bodies. The reason he didn't learn immortality, which he was going to was because he had to kill Plageuis for the Grand Plan. Which would you choose? Gaining the ultimate Sith Goal and destryoing the Jedi and Republic. Or becoming Immortal and ruining your chances?

 

5. Vader is one of streongest Sith duelists. He took down some of the most powerful Jedi from the Prequels and hunted them down. Shall I recommend you look up what happened on Kessel. He walked into a room full of Order 66 survivors, looking for Kenobi. But they attacked him, he killed 5 out of the 7 Jedi Masters. Those are Jedi Masters from the Prequels I should let you know.

 

Post-Mustafar, Vader become much smarter. Even though he was Dark-Sided he learned his lesson from rushing enemies and such. If you actually watch any of the OT fights and read EU fights, his fighting style changed allot from Pre-Mustafar. Most of the times he let the enemies come to him.

 

Worth mentioning that one of the Jedi assisted in their own defeat, and Vader was wounded several times by them, even crying out in pain before he surrendered. If it wasn't for the Jedi Arana killing a fellow Jedi before he tried to murder Vader, Vader would surely have been taken in. He was also subdued and buried by a telekinetic assault and beaten before the 501st stormed in and practically gave him the win.

[BrandonSM]

Worth mentioning that one of the Jedi assisted in their own defeat, and Vader was wounded several times by them, even crying out in pain before he surrendered. If it wasn't for the Jedi Arana killing a fellow Jedi before he tried to murder Vader, Vader would surely have been taken in. He was also subdued and buried by a telekinetic assault and beaten before the 501st stormed in and practically gave him the win.

 

No. His robotic leg was almost completely off before he killed the 3rd Jedi, yet he still carried on. And he didn't give surrender, so he wasn't beaten. They cut off his hand and he still managed to break one of their necks.

 

Thats Vader for you. In order to kill Darth Maul he impaled himself. He is an extremist.

[grandmthethird]

If Revan would lose in a lightsaber duel, or a battle of force, I'm not sure he would place himself in that situation. Revan in my opinion has superior intellect, and willpower, and support from his allies and friends to bolster his strength. I think Revan would win in the end if he knew what he was going up against. I mean revan would have probably beaten the emperor too if he hadn't been betrayed.

 

as brandonSM said. also

 

 

why he spent the rest of eternity in a tube after his battle with the emperor

 

[Castiel]

as brandonSM said. also

 

 

why he spent the rest of eternity in a tube after his battle with the emperor

 

But he didn't.... ?

[Castiel]

No. His robotic leg was almost completely off before he killed the 3rd Jedi, yet he still carried on. And he didn't give surrender, so he wasn't beaten. They cut off his hand and he still managed to break one of their necks.

 

Thats Vader for you. In order to kill Darth Maul he impaled himself. He is an extremist.

 

He was arrogant. He was buried beneath rubble, unable to move. Had they chosen to end his life, he would've died right there. But as I said, Arana gave Vader an opening before, and the 501st saved him.

[Felbear]

He was arrogant. He was buried beneath rubble, unable to move. Had they chosen to end his life, he would've died right there. But as I said, Arana gave Vader an opening before, and the 501st saved him.

 

That would have been what Vader wanted, he hated himself to the point where he saw suicidal attacks like bringing a temple down on top of himself and his enemies as a logical choice. The Emperor keeping him alive was a power play to show Vader both hope and hatred.