ReiKai Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 The talk of a characters potential has always been rather meaningless to me. Given enough time, any Force User could become as powerful, if not moreso, than Vader or Sidious. Vader's was claimed as 2x Sid's. Revan's in KotoR was said to be unlimited. If we went by such statements, then technically Revan could become the most powerful Force User ever, if he'd had the time to continue building power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 The talk of a characters potential has always been rather meaningless to me. Given enough time, any Force User could become as powerful, if not moreso, than Vader or Sidious. Vader's was claimed as 2x Sid's. Revan's in KotoR was said to be unlimited. If we went by such statements, then technically Revan could become the most powerful Force User ever, if he'd had the time to continue building power. Haha, you just opened Pandora's box.. Here comes the fanboy's "canon-rant" =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiKai Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 What does it really matter anyway? Vader and Lift more than Revan, while Revan can actually Do More than Vader. Vader only has a handful of abilities he can use. Revan has a truckload, because he's using both sides of the Force equally. I will always say Revan for my own reasons. For one, it having to take a Psuedo-Vader (The Wrath), Darth Nox, Ciper Nine and (presumably) the next Mandalore, to defeat a still weakened Revan on the Foundry. People can claim "We don't know who he faced" well, it's basic Story Logic. FP's require 4 people. There are 4 classes, 4 stories. Having multiple of the same class in a FP is a Mechanic. The story is different. Storywise, one from each of the 4 classes would be in the Foundry. So we have a Dartk Council member, the Emperor's private enforcer, the most skilled Agent in the Empire, and probably the most skilled and battle-hardened Mandalorian in the galaxy next to Mandalore himself. It took the four of them to overcome a weakened Revan. And we're still as of yet unaware if Revan was actually killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) What does it really matter anyway? Vader and Lift more than Revan, while Revan can actually Do More than Vader. Vader only has a handful of abilities he can use. Revan has a truckload, because he's using both sides of the Force equally. I will always say Revan for my own reasons. For one, it having to take a Psuedo-Vader (The Wrath), Darth Nox, Ciper Nine and (presumably) the next Mandalore, to defeat a still weakened Revan on the Foundry. People can claim "We don't know who he faced" well, it's basic Story Logic. FP's require 4 people. There are 4 classes, 4 stories. Having multiple of the same class in a FP is a Mechanic. The story is different. Storywise, one from each of the 4 classes would be in the Foundry. So we have a Dartk Council member, the Emperor's private enforcer, the most skilled Agent in the Empire, and probably the most skilled and battle-hardened Mandalorian in the galaxy next to Mandalore himself. It took the four of them to overcome a weakened Revan. And we're still as of yet unaware if Revan was actually killed. By that point, none of the classes were in their prime. The SI isn't a Dark Council member at that point, the Agent isn't the most skilled, the Warrior isn't the Emperor's Wrath and I guess you could make a claim for the BH but he isn't nearly as skilled as he at the end. They all have some level of experience sure, but they weren't in their prime yet. Edited December 26, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 What does it really matter anyway? Vader and Lift more than Revan, while Revan can actually Do More than Vader. Vader only has a handful of abilities he can use. Revan has a truckload, because he's using both sides of the Force equally. I will always say Revan for my own reasons. For one, it having to take a Psuedo-Vader (The Wrath), Darth Nox, Ciper Nine and (presumably) the next Mandalore, to defeat a still weakened Revan on the Foundry. People can claim "We don't know who he faced" well, it's basic Story Logic. FP's require 4 people. There are 4 classes, 4 stories. Having multiple of the same class in a FP is a Mechanic. The story is different. Storywise, one from each of the 4 classes would be in the Foundry. So we have a Dartk Council member, the Emperor's private enforcer, the most skilled Agent in the Empire, and probably the most skilled and battle-hardened Mandalorian in the galaxy next to Mandalore himself. It took the four of them to overcome a weakened Revan. And we're still as of yet unaware if Revan was actually killed. Don't bother explaining, I know what you mean. The canon-club won't, EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 By that point, none of the classes were in their prime. The SI isn't a Dark Council member at that point, the Agent isn't the most skilled, the Warrior isn't the Emperor's Wrath and I guess you could make a claim for the BH but he isn't nearly as skilled as he at the end. They all have some level of experience sure, but they weren't in their prime yet. Don't use that argument. They'll say that level doesn't matter. Apparently the story is lost to some people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSelkie Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Is this really still going on? Although I prefer Revan (by a lot) it's pretty much canon that Vader is more powerful. The Old Republic's Emperor (who's name eludes me) beat Revan (and friends), Sidious was the most powerful sith ever (hence more powerful than old Emperor) and Vader ended up 80% of him. One could probably debate old Emperor Vs Vader, but Revan's outmatched here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastWizard Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Both were Sith or Jedi at one point. Both had a connection to the force that nobody has ever come close too. Both were excellent duelists. When Padme died, Annakin became one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time. He no longer had fear of losing a loved one, he finally reached the peak of his power. I haven't read much of Revan, but with his companions murdered at the hands of the emperor, he wants revenge on the Sith Empire as well. They both share strengths and I really don't know their weakness. Revan vs Darth Vader It's a question even I can't answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Don't use that argument. They'll say that level doesn't matter. Apparently the story is lost to some people I wasn't using levels, just mainly where at that point they are in their stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I wasn't using levels, just mainly where at that point they are in their stories. I was using their argument that their level at the time doesn't matter. That each of them(the four classes) were at their best. This is simply not true, but we have seen that argument used before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I was using their argument that their level at the time doesn't matter. That each of them(the four classes) were at their best. This is simply not true, but we have seen that argument used before. I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter for this reason: Let's say you're at lvl 15. If you fight a Jedi at lvl 15 and beat him, and then immediately try to beat a average lvl 40 droid, the droid will cream you! Does this mean that the droid is more powerful then the Jedi? No. For this reason, I feel that any debate point that is based off of lvl is logically invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter for this reason: Let's say you're at lvl 15. If you fight a Jedi at lvl 15 and beat him, and then immediately try to beat a average lvl 40 droid, the droid will cream you! Does this mean that the droid is more powerful then the Jedi? No. For this reason, I feel that any debate point that is based off of lvl is logically invalid. I'll admit that I've stumbled into that type of scenario before. However, level doesn't matter. Story does. The Flashpoints run concurrently with the class stories. So at the time of the Foundry, the four imp classes are not at prime yet. From a STORY perspective. Edited December 26, 2012 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Alright so here are some feats of Vader. ====== Willing himself back to life. ========== http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191484-new_picture__178_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191502-new_picture__196_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191503-new_picture__197_.jpg Surviving an explosion. ========== http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139108-new_picture__113_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139109-new_picture__114_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139110-new_picture__115_.jpg Surviving another explosion at pretty much point blank range. ========= http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191489-new_picture__183_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191490-new_picture__184_.jpg Crushing a huge droid. ==== http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139132-new_picture__135_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139133-new_picture__136_.jpg Collapsing a cathedral ontop of himself and surviving for days. ======= http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139142-new_picture__145_.jpg Hurling several creatures. ===== http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139115-new_picture__119_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139116-new_picture__120_.jpg Hurling a V-wing. ========= http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139208-new_picture__104_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139209-new_picture__105_.jpg Using Alter Environment to take care of some Snipers. ======= http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139211-new_picture__107_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139212-new_picture__108_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139119-new_picture__123_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139120-new_picture__124_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139150-new_picture__153_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139152-new_picture__155_.jpg Some speed/mobility feats. ======== I can keep going if you want. Vader is very powerful, Revan stands no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiKai Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I'll admit that I've stumbled into that type of scenario before. However, level doesn't matter. Story does. The Flashpoints run concurrently with the class stories. So at the time of the Foundry, the four imp classes are not at prime yet. From a STORY perspective. We can say that, but people can still be 40ish on Voss and hit the foundry, or finish their Class Story then go back and do it. Still I feel ultimately that it wouldn't matter. If you put the four at their prime, I'd still say Revan at his prime could take them on or make it one hell of a fight. Maybe in the expansion we'll see if they confirm Revan's death or add him to a new FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSelkie Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Alright so here are some feats of Vader. Completely off topic, but as someone who doesn't read comics I got a bit of a giggle out of some of those. I especially liked it when he used the force and it went "FWOOOSH!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Completely off topic, but as someone who doesn't read comics I got a bit of a giggle out of some of those. I especially liked it when he used the force and it went "FWOOOSH!" Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishGod Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Vader is far greater than revan. period! Forget the books most of them are writen by people who never created the characters in the first place or arn't considered canon. After all starkiller was bought in after the films and that name was originaly lukes surname in the first place. So throw them all on the fire and lets look at it from those that made the characters. bio-ware not only created revan but also puts revan as a mid level end boss who is unable to defeat the emperor. That makes him far weaker than someone that not only bought down the jedi order (even if he was manipulated to do so, palatine couldn't have done it with out him) but also had the strength to do what Yoda and Luke couldn't do and that was end palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Guys: let the thread die already! I'm of the opinion that Vader would win, but it'd be close. Vader is 80% of Sidious, who is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. Revan is very powerful, and he'd give Vader a run for his money, but in the end Vader is likely better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I'll admit that I've stumbled into that type of scenario before. However, level doesn't matter. Story does. The Flashpoints run concurrently with the class stories. So at the time of the Foundry, the four imp classes are not at prime yet. From a STORY perspective. OK that makes since. But how do you explain a hardmode flashpoints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 OK that makes since. But how do you explain a hardmode flashpoints? Basically we have two kinds of flashpoints. Hardmode(endgame) and Story-mode(regular) story mode flashpoints are the canon ones as they run concurrently with the story of each class. Plus from a story perspective it makes sense: Malgus was basically using the Empire heroes to gain the advanced tech of the Foundry and other stuff. It doesn't make sense for the Flashpoints to happen one after the other. Malgus wouldn't have time to prepare his New Empire if the Flashpoits occurred like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Guys: let the thread die already! Hey Flintfire brought it back. Don't ya just love necro's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Hey Flintfire brought it back. Don't ya just love necro's? Wolf, I just had to bring this quote of yours back from the previous incarnation of this thread. If I had a credit for every person that says Revan would win, in any VS thread I would be so rich I could buy a planet. After painstakingly going through the previous incarnation and this one, I would have to say that you would have roughly 100 credits. Just from this thread. I would have to re-count for the exact number as I lost count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Wolf, I just had to bring this quote of yours back from the previous incarnation of this thread. After painstakingly going through the previous incarnation and this one, I would have to say that you would have roughly 100 credits. Just from this thread. I would have to re-count for the exact number as I lost count. I put that? Lol now I gotta find that post, cause I don't remember ever posting it. Only a 100 creds though? Huh....oh well. Edited December 27, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I put that? Lol now I gotta find that post, cause I don't remember ever posting it. Only a 100 creds though? Huh....oh well. Page 14 of the previous thread. I would have to re-count because I lost count. Soooo many fanboys to sort through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Page 14 of the previous thread. I would have to re-count because I lost count. Soooo many fanboys to sort through. Ya I found it lol, rather amusing. I did also post up some feats, on the last page if ya didn't get a look at those. Theres more I could have put, but just didn't feel like it. Edited December 27, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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