Grats healers, you now have your godmode just like every other MMO.

[SliggXx]

Take it you never ever played DaoC? If you want to know how healing should be, I suggest you go look at that game.

 

I played in and against some of the best 8v8 groups in DAoC., had multiple RR10+ characters. Please refrain from trying to tell me what I did or did not do.

 

That you even bring up DAoC mechanics in reference to this game is laughable. It isn't even the same planet. Hard interrupt mechanics are great, but it was balanced with massive, long duration CC and much bigger heals. I would be completely in favor of those mechanics in ToR, but it isn't happening.

 

As long as heals are restricted to a baseline heal of roughly 1/8th of people's HPs and interrupt mechanics are soft interrupt style, we shouldn't be talking about DAoC.

 

BTW: Good healers in DAoC were 1,000,000x more useful than in this game. You could send out 6 scrubs with two incredible healers and beat all but the best groups in DAoC. In this game, a great healer cannot carry a bad team. For example, my greatest healing game (875K on my scoundrel) was in a Voidstar with a PUG and resulted in a stalemate loss. If you have a bunch of bad dps classes like yourself, you can't win in this game.

Edited February 15, 2012 by SliggXx

[ouTJumped]

Didn't read all this, but OP doesn't know what he is talking about. Healers still go down easy, move along folks.

[Jfrio]

Healers really shouldnt die from just one DPS on them...that would be stupid. Healers should be able to heal through one DPS, otherwise who would ever want to roll a healer? To just get killed by one dude every time? that seems kinda pointless.

 

You one on one a healer when u want the healer to concentrate on healing his/her self instead of her team. This way their escort dies and u and ur team can then finish up the healer.

 

When you one on one a healer ur goal shoudnt be to take em down, the goal is to interrupt and distract them to stop their heals to the grp.

 

I'm assuming the healer is skilled btw

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jfrio

[Qeuzolt]

The only exception is a stealther.. ill tell you anoter relevant story about last night. In heathen we have a 50 op who just dinged. Our 4 man ends up in a huttball match vs our own op. He jumped me 5 times with no real gear and I am at 11.49% pvp. I had to run, aboandon my groop every time. I was shocked about how an under geared toon could make me run away every time. Some call it kiting, but imho I would rather suffer dmg and stay if i can than run away. Keep QQ'in

 

LOL, nice try bro. Lets bring up a random OPS are OP into this thread and hope everyone jumps on it? OPS are the worst dps in the game, if you "had to run" from a fresh 50op then maybe your just bad and thats why you can't figure out how to make yourself god mode.

 

Our PVP groups always runs with 1 guard and 1 merc healer in each of our groups, once they have 10%expertise + PVE gear up to around 17-18k HP they are un killable without 2-3 DPS going after them.

 

It's going to become very apparent if its not fixed before ranked WZ's comes out.

[SicNNasty]

Healers in god mode? I see no Disciples of Khaine nor any Warrior Priests! You lie!

[HellFlame]

Learn to focus the healer.

 

case closed.

[pinkfreudHC]

A healer should be able to out-heal a single DPSer...

 

 

but only when that single DPSer is attacking the tank that the healer is healing.

 

If the DPSer switches to the healer that healer better hope the tank Guards them or CCs the DPS.

[Qeuzolt]

Lol i love it that people dont understand that if a healer is self healing he is not healing his team.... you have effectively removed him from the battle. Im a commando healer, and yeah we are hard to kill, but the funny thing is that you try. I cant count how many times i have had 2 or 3 guys focus firing on me while my teammates run right past them with the ball, or cap a turret or door etc.

 

Of course we have survivability when we are self healing, we are designed to keep tanks alive! We may have the greatest survivability in the game, but to maintain that we are the only class that has to stand still and focus our entire rotation on ourselves, making us useless lol

 

You just proved the OP's point though, You can stand there with 2 or 3 guys beating on you and survive, that is whats broken, It doesn't matter if you aren't helping out your team. How about you get a sorc/sin to grab the ball at first then throw it to you? Then the rest of your team can protect you and you can effectively hold the ball for the entire game and be un killable that's broken...

[Locke]

Healers alone are fine. It's healer + tank with guard that is a problem.

[Ashes_Arizona]

I hate to say it, but if a game is going to be set up so that healers cannot DPS while healing this is how it has to be. If not healers are completely useless and may as well just not come to warzones.

 

By the way, my sentinel can still kill a healer 1v1 if he does not get help. It's slow, but I can still take one down. There is nothing wrong with the recent surge nerf, even if I miss the DPS a bit.

 

Your Sentinel has DoT's, very nice ones btw.

 

And it doesn't matter if healers can't DPS while healing themselves because for every healer that requires two people to stop them from healing themselves/others, that frees up two of the enemy team to go do other stuff, like, complete objectives without any interference.

 

Oh well make sure they don't capture the objectives without interference...sure no problem, then its a case of those people, while not actually able to complete the objective become unkillable wrecking balls because we're not playing ring around the rosey smacking their healers with interrupts. Not to mention then the healers start DPSing too.

 

Simple fact is, every healer subtracts the total DPS of two players from the enemy team, whether its through those two players being dedicated to trying to keep the healer out of the match, or, those two players getting mashed into paste because the healer outhealed all the damage they did to non-healer targets and the non-healer targets won the fight.

 

I want healers to be in PvP and I want them to feel effective and rewarded for what they do but when you have one class that is literally determining the outcome of any WZ encounter, there is a problem with that class. As its been stated before, the Operative/Scoundrel nerf that occurred is probably the point of class control failure here. The fact that there aren't Operatives/Scoundrel's invalidating healers on a 1 to 1 basis effectively, has fomented this requirement for all healers to have two DPS classes on them to simply remove their HPS from the rest of their group, thats not even "killing" them, thats just getting them to stop healing their teammates so someone on your team might kill someone on the opposing team.

 

Thats too much power for any one class to have over the outcome of any PvP encounter.

[Kunda]

Healers alone are fine. It's healer + tank with guard that is a problem.

 

Put both DPS on the healer, interrupt casts, watch as both he and the tank die at the same time.

[Fraeg]

Interupt em and they still heal, focus them and they pop defensives and instant heal.

 

Seems we now know where the QQ came from, grats on your accension to godhood, may the PvP matches be a snorefest to honor your need to be unkillable.

 

Congratulations DPS

 

interupt them and they just use some other DPS skill, focus on them and they laugh, cause... well my dps sucks as I am fully specced into healing.

 

They don't stop DPSing either, while I have to franticaly spam heals on myself hoping someone will come to my rescue (at which point i am doing zero dps, unless you count are very ghetto dots), they just keep DPSing me down

 

Gratz on your nonstop DPS godhood.

 

 

It is an MMO, Healer heal, and yes this helps them survive your attack, they also tend to have really ****** dps. That Said I do think their are certain Hybrid builds that will receive a tweeking down the road.

[Zarthorn]

I wish people would understand that noone is asking for healing to be nerfed, they are asking for Bioware to add the actual counter to the game on more than one class pairing in the form of heal debuffing.

 

The problem with healing atm is:

 

-Every class has a talent that increases the healing they recieve (healers also get one that increases healing delt)

 

-Trauma is mostly countered by expertise

 

-There is only one heal debuff tied to one class pairing and no others.

 

This causes a form of power creep because the counter is only availible to one class, there needs to be more heal debuffs to counter the power creep from talents/expertise.

[Noollig]

Expertise is the issue. Two people who both have max expertise will do 10% more damage and take 10% less. So in the end the extra damage is canceled out by extra damage reduction.

 

However, expertise gives 10% more healing too. Nothing cancels that out. So healers just hold on to extra healing while the non-healers have their bonus canceled out by equal expertise opponents.

 

Expertise is dumb.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Noollig

[SliggXx]

You just proved the OP's point though, You can stand there with 2 or 3 guys beating on you and survive, that is whats broken, It doesn't matter if you aren't helping out your team. How about you get a sorc/sin to grab the ball at first then throw it to you? Then the rest of your team can protect you and you can effectively hold the ball for the entire game and be un killable that's broken...

 

You must be new.

 

The situation you described does not exist. No one is unkillable. the best healer in the entire game will die to two focused, quality DPS. The fact that my healer can survive 3 badly played DPS who don't use interrupts, CC or even their bread and butter skills isn't indicative of anything other than a good player defeating bad players. You use hyperbole and ignorance to make your case and that is never an effective strategy.

 

The reality is that the healing in this game is very balanced. Bad healers die very easily. Good healers require coordination to take down. That is how it is supposed to be. If you don't like that mechanic, you should go play more CoD.

[Pestwulf]

you are horrible dps if you cant kill anyone with a healer, go back to call of duty if you want to 1 shot kill people, this is a MMO

 

Actually, it must depend on level. I have a level 20 bounty hunter now I've been playing and I'm competent with him. I often am top damage and kills unless I need to switch stance to guard a healer or am stuck guarding a node that sees no action. But when in full damage mode I'm always near the top of the list.

 

Despite my damage output, it is exceptionally hard to solo a healer. I have a stun and an interrupt and I use them in the best placement I can. But because of the way resolve works, they tend to be able to mutli-stun me so that once I pop my one CC break, I'm still repeatedly taken out of the fight allowing them to heal through my dps. If I don't CC, his healing trumps my dps in a flat out fight.

 

so yes they are kill-able solo but it is NOT easy if they are at all competent. If they have a melee with them?? forget it, you're dead well before you can kill the healer. Which actually I don't have a problem with since it's two on one.

 

But I'm not sure about how I feel for a dps role to be trumped by a healing role. Part of me rejoices at it since I always played healers in MMO's...but I also wonder of the balance at it if high powered dps can't burn down a healer with only moderate difficulty.

 

What this means is that if both sides have healers, whoever has the map disadvantage for an attrition battle is going to lose a LOT more.

 

Alderan for example, whoever controls the node can fly straight back to it while the attacker will have to cover more ground. In a battle of attrition it is way harder on the attacker.

 

Voidstar...I'm not sure. But I think it's likely the defender since you get put in the box for absurd amounts of time and will often find yourself getting out into an empty room because the doors exploded and everyone already left meaning your team is short members until you catch up to the attackers.

 

Huttball...I'd say whoever gets the ball first. But the real problem here is more the movement abilities of certain spec's than it is about healing.

 

Anyway, the prolonging of a fight changes things on these WZ's. Of that there is no doubt. Alderan probably being the msot noticable.

[Hansuki]

You know you cant win em all right? Every QQ about balance comes down to experience - and more often then not, some more experienced player comes into a thread like this and reminds you all of this simple fact.

 

You will play games against 3-4 healers. You will play games with no healers on your team. And you will lose these games. That is all. Guess what, the other side has these games too, and you win them, cause your team has more healers.

 

Huttball works like this with Jugg/Sentinel and other classes with a seemingly stacked set of skills that really work well in that situation, to the point that the team with 3 or more warriors usually wins (Ive seen all inquisitor teams win too, and once a team of 4 powertech 4 sorc match where we lost horribly, just terribly)

 

WZ composition is hit and miss. Thats why people roll out the premades and do well (I tank and usually premade with a pocket healer and 2 dps for the wins)

[Rhazesx]

Tanks are worse after the surge nerf. Every game is now against Tank stacked premades that walk the ball to end zone and pass and leap to each other while using defensive cooldowns.

 

I been running and grabbing the heal node just to prevent them from grabbing it and then leaping back up to their tank buddy instantly.

[Scoobings]

Expertise is the issue. Two people who both have max expertise will do 10% more damage and take 10% less. So in the end the extra damage is canceled out by extra damage reduction.

 

However, expertise gives 10% more healing too. Nothing cancels that out. So healers just hold on to extra healing while the non-healers have their bonus canceled out by equal expertise opponents.

 

Expertise is dumb.

 

This.

 

Really healing in this game only becomes too much (imo) when there are multiple geared healers. 2 sages, or 3 of any other combination of healers and no one can drop the group.

 

Granted groups with 3 healers seem a little DPS shy, but the organized groups that make this seem to always win through attrition.

[Senaleb]

I have definitely noticed Multiple heal specs in every warzone. It is starting to become a little annoying. I suspect your going to see a lot more healer heavy wz's. Not looking forward to that.

[Ruuprect]

If they nerf healing you will not see a single healer in WZ's. Is this what people want? That to me sound like a really boring match, everyone will go down in <5 seconds and you will all spend the entire match standing at spawn.

 

Healing is not that bad.

[Actua]

If you are DPS and cannot kill a healer, or at least force him to do nothing else than try to survive your onslaught, you honestly have to:

 

1) Change your spec cause it sucks

 

2) Up your game cause it sucks

 

3) Up your gear cause it sucks

 

I'm a BM jugg, and when I go DPS in WZ's, wether it be vengeance or Rage, those *********** healers bettter keep spamming themselves casue they are gonna die.

 

And wether they die or not, I,m doing my job because they can't be healing anyone else.

 

And if you're going against a team of 4 healers, just grab the goddamn ball and see how healer DPS is total ****.

[Liriana]

Just thought I'd bold that part out for you because it isn't true since a healer will generally outlast any dps that comes for them with the exception of a Sent/Mara (but the whaambulance has started on them so they will probably get nerfed next) .

 

The problem is there are not enough healing debuff skills in the game, Bioware thought trauma would be enough (and in the 10-49 bracket it is) but once expertise is thrown into the equation, trauma does very little.

 

There needs to be more heal debuffs added to counteract the "just stack a few healers for the unkillable team" problem we are now seeing, no healer I don't care if they have another one backing them up should ever be able to survive focus fire from a full group in a WZ.

 

This is why Heal debuffs are a neccessary evil and Bioware made a massive mistake by choosing to only add one, which is on a class that is now the focal point of nerf calls.

 

Wow, um there is noway any healer can survive focus fire from a full good group in a WZ.

 

I have 643 expertise, with a tank in vent guard/taunt/intercede I will live for a long time by focusing on healing myself and the tank. I will survive until I run out of Force if you are not using interrupts. With interupts I will go down within a minute from focus fire if not faster. That doesn't make healers godmode. that is a tank taunting reducing my damage by 30% and eating 50% of whats left, intercede reducing my damage by 25% and eating 50% of whats left. My health and my tanks still go down and I am pulling every trick I have to keep us up for that minute. Bad groups will never kill us because they dont focus fire, and even 2 on me i can heal through because the tank is taking effectively 1 dps worth away. Stuns and interrupts correctly used stop this faster. And you should see how many people i get to interrupt crushing darkness by casting it randomly so my heals get locked less often.

 

On the other hand last night in VS the group we played Focus fired me when I had guard, from 4-5 I was dying in 5-15 seconds flat, then my team was going down quickly when I was gone. PVP in WZ is not a solo game it is a team effort player with your team or stop complaining pls

[Scoobings]

If they nerf healing you will not see a single healer in WZ's. Is this what people want? That to me sound like a really boring match, everyone will go down in <5 seconds and you will all spend the entire match standing at spawn.

 

Healing is not that bad.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is. It might be taking the heal buff off of expertise, or maybe it's as simple as the match making trying to match people up healer for healer (if one side has 2 healers, the otherside gets 2 healers). I think WoW's system does that, or at least used to when I played it. We'd probably need cross server pvp ques for that to work though.

 

It's a problem not just in this MMO though, in class based games in general even down to Team Fortress. The team with more medics usually wins.

[Romeocus]

I didn't read the whole post but isn't Trauma a big enough debuff, stop complaining about classes, as sorcs. Ya we have abilities to get away but come on **** we are squishy. And besides a bubble which goes away with one hit from some players do we really have a defensive CD? At work and early so brain not thinking atm