Grats healers, you now have your godmode just like every other MMO.

[SliggXx]

I wish people would understand that noone is asking for healing to be nerfed, they are asking for Bioware to add the actual counter to the game on more than one class pairing in the form of heal debuffing.

 

The problem with healing atm is:

 

-Every class has a talent that increases the healing they recieve (healers also get one that increases healing delt)

 

-Trauma is mostly countered by expertise

 

-There is only one heal debuff tied to one class pairing and no others.

 

This causes a form of power creep because the counter is only availible to one class, there needs to be more heal debuffs to counter the power creep from talents/expertise.

 

You mean so people can start dying in 2 seconds again?

 

Your concept of game balance is quite interesting. Most good players want fights to last longer. It is the one-trick pony DPS classes that seem to be upset they can't face-roll people with burst DPS anymore.

[Noollig]

I see a lot of people referring to Call of Duty as the game for people to go to if they don't like the current pvp situation at 50. This boggles me. The best selling game of all time is part of the call of duty franchise. Modern Warfare 3 sold over 6.5 million copies the first day it was released, swtor didn't have half of that in the first month. The CoD line is doing something right, and bioware would be stupid not to consider how they could improve their own game by emulating aspects of other extremely successful games.

 

Nobody wants an MMO where you just one-shot eachother in PvP, but that doesn't mean people want an endless fight where nobody can die due to excessive healing. This thread smells QQish, but brings up the valid point that when it takes 3 dps to kill 1 healer, a team with 4 healers will make it next to impossible to kill people.

[SliggXx]

Actually, it must depend on level. I have a level 20 bounty hunter now I've been playing and I'm competent with him. I often am top damage and kills unless I need to switch stance to guard a healer or am stuck guarding a node that sees no action. But when in full damage mode I'm always near the top of the list.

 

Despite my damage output, it is exceptionally hard to solo a healer. I have a stun and an interrupt and I use them in the best placement I can. But because of the way resolve works, they tend to be able to mutli-stun me so that once I pop my one CC break, I'm still repeatedly taken out of the fight allowing them to heal through my dps. If I don't CC, his healing trumps my dps in a flat out fight.

 

so yes they are kill-able solo but it is NOT easy if they are at all competent. If they have a melee with them?? forget it, you're dead well before you can kill the healer. Which actually I don't have a problem with since it's two on one.

 

But I'm not sure about how I feel for a dps role to be trumped by a healing role. Part of me rejoices at it since I always played healers in MMO's...but I also wonder of the balance at it if high powered dps can't burn down a healer with only moderate difficulty.

 

What this means is that if both sides have healers, whoever has the map disadvantage for an attrition battle is going to lose a LOT more.

 

Alderan for example, whoever controls the node can fly straight back to it while the attacker will have to cover more ground. In a battle of attrition it is way harder on the attacker.

 

Voidstar...I'm not sure. But I think it's likely the defender since you get put in the box for absurd amounts of time and will often find yourself getting out into an empty room because the doors exploded and everyone already left meaning your team is short members until you catch up to the attackers.

 

Huttball...I'd say whoever gets the ball first. But the real problem here is more the movement abilities of certain spec's than it is about healing.

 

Anyway, the prolonging of a fight changes things on these WZ's. Of that there is no doubt. Alderan probably being the msot noticable.

 

Are you trolling or did you actually just use your level 20 bounty hunter in an example to make a PvP argument?

[SliggXx]

This.

 

Really healing in this game only becomes too much (imo) when there are multiple geared healers. 2 sages, or 3 of any other combination of healers and no one can drop the group.

 

Granted groups with 3 healers seem a little DPS shy, but the organized groups that make this seem to always win through attrition.

 

You are incorrect. I love seeing those groups. They can't kill anyone and almost always lose.

[peanutabc]

1 competent dps can take a healer out of an entire fight be it even through outright killing them or forcing them to heal themselves.

 

The only issue it when said healer is guarded or being chain healed but that's an extra person we got now so you're 1v2, where's your team?

 

a couple good dps can down a healer through guard easily. even having another healer healing the one you're hitting 2 dps can still take them down. People are forgetting if you and a buddy are hitting healer #1 and healer#2 is healing healer#1 that's two healers that aren't even healing their own team and if your team cannot kill anyone whilst they're occupied then something else is going horribly wrong anyway.

 

I play a vanguard.

[Grubfist]

I wish I had WZ's with 4 healers.

 

I wish I STOPPED having WZ's with 4 healers. We get no offense. I don't wanna respec my healer to damage.

[Fischer_King]

No. Healers are tough in certain situations, but not god mode.

[Zarthorn]

You mean so people can start dying in 2 seconds again?

 

Your concept of game balance is quite interesting. Most good players want fights to last longer. It is the one-trick pony DPS classes that seem to be upset they can't face-roll people with burst DPS anymore.

 

Nope, I just respecced my Scoundrel to healer since you all seem to have this "can't beat em join em mentality" guess what, I'm now part of the problem.

[SliggXx]

I'm not sure what the answer is. It might be taking the heal buff off of expertise, or maybe it's as simple as the match making trying to match people up healer for healer (if one side has 2 healers, the otherside gets 2 healers). I think WoW's system does that, or at least used to when I played it. We'd probably need cross server pvp ques for that to work though.

 

It's a problem not just in this MMO though, in class based games in general even down to Team Fortress. The team with more medics usually wins.

 

Or maybe the answer is that healing is one of the most balanced mechanics in the game and you are crying over nothing. You just admitted that this is kind of how things work in most games.

 

BIG SURPRISE. Teams with good support classes win.

[Venrale]

You just proved the OP's point though, You can stand there with 2 or 3 guys beating on you and survive, that is whats broken, It doesn't matter if you aren't helping out your team. How about you get a sorc/sin to grab the ball at first then throw it to you? Then the rest of your team can protect you and you can effectively hold the ball for the entire game and be un killable that's broken...

 

an intelligent team can counter this easy, everyone focuses down that healer and if there is an off healer have 1-2 dps get on him that can interupt.. I play a Vanguard and when we have this happen I always branch off to the other healer just to keep him busy and interrupt heals when I can.. also if you start killing that guy who is guarding the healer the healer will ussually try and keep him alive thus spreading his power so thin he dies.. learn to tacticaly spread dmg and focus dps 1 healer while just annoying the other also Ive seen well played/geared marauders/sents absoluetly rip healers to peices 1v1

[SliggXx]

I see a lot of people referring to Call of Duty as the game for people to go to if they don't like the current pvp situation at 50. This boggles me. The best selling game of all time is part of the call of duty franchise. Modern Warfare 3 sold over 6.5 million copies the first day it was released, swtor didn't have half of that in the first month. The CoD line is doing something right, and bioware would be stupid not to consider how they could improve their own game by emulating aspects of other extremely successful games.

 

Nobody wants an MMO where you just one-shot eachother in PvP, but that doesn't mean people want an endless fight where nobody can die due to excessive healing. This thread smells QQish, but brings up the valid point that when it takes 3 dps to kill 1 healer, a team with 4 healers will make it next to impossible to kill people.

 

Yet a team with 4 healers won't be able to kill anyone. And with three focused, well-played DPS classes a player could be being healed by 4 people simultaneously and would still die. Quite easily too. And people do want longer fights. Before some of the DPs nerfs, people were complaining about the facerolling. Now they are complaining about the healing.

 

You can't make everyone happy. At least with fights lasting longer you get a chance to see who the better players are. Good DPSers still kill healers. Anyone who says otherwise is doing it wrong.

[Scoobings]

You are incorrect. I love seeing those groups. They can't kill anyone and almost always lose.

 

That is the exact opposite of my experience.

 

Also, to people saying that you can 1v1 a healer that's simply not the case. The only healers I can kill in a 1v1 right now are mercs and it's by overheating them (which takes a really long time).

 

That doesn't mean I think I should be able to, because if a dps could take down a healer by himself then healers would be worthless. I was just clarifying.

[Scoobings]

Or maybe the answer is that healing is one of the most balanced mechanics in the game and you are crying over nothing. You just admitted that this is kind of how things work in most games.

 

BIG SURPRISE. Teams with good support classes win.

 

< Not the OP; Not crying.

 

It's really not so unbalancing it ruins games for me, and it's definitely not reached "godmode" status yet.

 

It's like you said, team with good support classes win. So by that logic, it seems kind of unfair that one side can get queued with 3 support classes while the otherside gets none right? I don't know why anyone would be against a fairer match making system.

[SliggXx]

That is the exact opposite of my experience.

 

Also, to people saying that you can 1v1 a healer that's simply not the case. The only healers I can kill in a 1v1 right now are mercs and it's by overheating them (which takes a really long time).

 

That doesn't mean I think I should be able to, because if a dps could take down a healer by himself then healers would be worthless. I was just clarifying.

 

Then you need a new group to run with. This game's PvP balance is really good right now. Too much or too little of anything can be a bad thing. Like I said, I would welcome a group with 4 healers. That is an easy win.

[Scoobings]

Yet a team with 4 healers won't be able to kill anyone. And with three focused, well-played DPS classes a player could be being healed by 4 people simultaneously and would still die. Quite easily too. And people do want longer fights. Before some of the DPs nerfs, people were complaining about the facerolling. Now they are complaining about the healing.

 

You can't make everyone happy. At least with fights lasting longer you get a chance to see who the better players are. Good DPSers still kill healers. Anyone who says otherwise is doing it wrong.

 

You can absolutely beat a team with 3 healers but it requires infinitely more coordination on the part of the team that's all DPS than it does the healers. The healers just play health bar whack-a-mole while the dps have to split fire and then target switch to focus fire. That kind of coordination is pretty difficult if you're a PUG. There are no good reasons not to have the match making system at least try to pair up role for role.

[SliggXx]

< Not the OP; Not crying.

 

It's really not so unbalancing it ruins games for me, and it's definitely not reached "godmode" status yet.

 

It's like you said, team with good support classes win. So by that logic, it seems kind of unfair that one side can get queued with 3 support classes while the otherside gets none right? I don't know why anyone would be against a fairer match making system.

 

Then direct your criticism to the match-making system and not a thread about healing being overpowered. It isn't. It is probably the most balanced healing mechanic I have seen in a game to-date. I have played support classes for years now and the only game that came close to doing it as well as this one was DAoC.

 

Support classes need to be the stars because they end up sacrificing short-term personal satisfaction for the greater good. DPS is more fun. Always will be. Support is more gratifying when its done right.

[SliggXx]

You can absolutely beat a team with 3 healers but it requires infinitely more coordination on the part of the team that's all DPS than it does the healers. The healers just play health bar whack-a-mole while the dps have to split fire and then target switch to focus fire. That kind of coordination is pretty difficult if you're a PUG. There are no good reasons not to have the match making system at least try to pair up role for role.

 

So, your complaint is that it isn't fair that a PUG isn't performing well as a coordinated group...

 

Direct your angst in a thread about the matchmaking system then, as you seem to acknowledge that this healing issue isn't a problem against well-played groups. And I agree with you, it isn't at all.

[belialle]

What a load of BS.

 

It only takes ONE good DPS to take a healer out of the game. By that I mean, it only takes one good DPS to force a healer to focus heals on itself. Just one. It might take longer to actually kill a healer, but that is fair. That's how it should be. If it wasn't that way, healers would be a free kill to even the very worst DPS. Why would you want healers to be a free kill?

 

If you can't keep a healer focused on healing itself, preventing heals to its teammates -- by yourself -- I can think of 3 potential problems:

 

1. Bad gear

2. Bad spec

3. Bad player

 

 

Learn to not blow every ability as soon as it comes off cooldown just because you can. Learn to time your burst/CC/interrupts to effectively kill healers. Learn to understand when the healer is being supported by other healers so you can identify the weakest one and focus it first. Learn to be tenacious. Don't give up on it just because it ducked behind a pillar. Most ranged DPS do, you know. If it CCs you and runs, don't give up on it like the vast majority of DPSers do. It just blew a cooldown on you, ffs.

 

I can assure you that others are able to do these things. If you can't, you have a problem.

 

PS - Healers were also stacking surge. They were also nerfed when surge was nerfed. That you would attempt to say that the surge nerfs give healers "godmode" underscores the fact that you don't know the first thing about healers, which could go a long way toward explaining why you have such a hard time killing them. When a certain class gives me a hard time, I make one so that I can learn more about how to counter it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by belialle

[Scoobings]

Then you need a new group to run with. This game's PvP balance is really good right now. Too much or too little of anything can be a bad thing. Like I said, I would welcome a group with 4 healers. That is an easy win.

 

I run mostly in pugs so perhaps that's why my experience differs so much.

[Valeena]

Can I re-roll to whatever healer is God mode please? Because it sure as hell wasn't Sorc or Merc and I doubt it's a Scoundrel. I want to play that class. You know, the one that never dies and never gets focused. Free casting all day everyday.

 

Playing a healer is a death sentence - we're the first ones to get targeted. I personally always have a tank or melee on me at all times, throwing me around the Warzone like a ragdoll. I actually had a team mate say one day "LOL I'm glad I didn't roll a healer, I would hate to get focused first all of the time."

 

Please, please, PLEASE roll a healer. Hit 50. Come back and make this post.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Valeena

[Scoobings]

So, your complaint is that it isn't fair that a PUG isn't performing well as a coordinated group...

 

Direct your angst in a thread about the matchmaking system then, as you seem to acknowledge that this healing issue isn't a problem against well-played groups. And I agree with you, it isn't at all.

 

I merely posted stating my opinion on the "healer OP" issue, which I believe is what this thread is for right?

 

I have created threads before on the match-making system and how I think it's silly that pre-mades go against pugs and that there is no attempt at creating fair teams based on composition. I was just restating it here because I feel like that's the problem not neccesarily healers. So we're agreed

 

It'll be exciting to see what kind of compositions go into rated WZs because I'm pretty sure the 3 healer setup won't be one (except maybe in huttball, I could see that working well in huttball if they were all sages).

[Lexster]

Im confused, if everyone was nerfed the same with surge, wouldnt the effect be the same as it was prior to the nerf. Healing crits are now weaker as well.

[Valeena]

Im confused, if everyone was nerfed the same with surge, wouldnt the effect be the same as it was prior to the nerf. Healing crits are now weaker as well.

 

Pretty much.

 

If everyone got a nerf, then everyone is on equal terms. Well, something to that extent anyways.

[Cryblood]

When I break 600k dmg on my sin and don't even get above 20 kills, something's wrong.

3 geared healers on the enemy team is damn insane, to get the few kills I did have, had to do some clutch target shifting and cc.

 

Oh and commando and merc healers may as well tank and ball carry, they take no damage.

 

And a smugglers running around at 30% laughing as he heals through my 4k execute crits angers me to no end, but at least a good stun and some crits can bring em down.

 

They need to fix interrupts in this game.

 

Than again if 90% of the pugs out there realized how to hit harder than a wet noodle healing would be much less of an issue, most people I run into can't even break 200k.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Cryblood

[Bnol]

What a load of BS.

 

It only takes ONE good DPS to take a healer out of the game. By that I mean, it only takes one good DPS to force a healer to focus heals on itself. Just one. It might take longer to actually kill a healer, but that is fair. That's how it should be. If it wasn't that way, healers would be a free kill to even the very worst DPS. Why would you want healers to be a free kill?

 

If you can't keep a healer focused on healing itself, preventing heals to its teammates -- by yourself -- I can think of 3 potential problems:

 

1. Bad gear

2. Bad spec

3. Bad player

 

 

Learn to not blow every ability as soon as it comes off cooldown just because you can. Learn to time your burst/CC/interrupts to effectively kill healers. Learn to understand when the healer is being supported by other healers so you can identify the weakest one and focus it first. Learn to be tenacious. Don't give up on it just because it ducked behind a pillar. Most ranged DPS do, you know. If it CCs you and runs, don't give up on it like the vast majority of DPSers do. It just blew a cooldown on you, ffs.

 

I can assure you that others are able to do these things. If you can't, you have a problem.

 

PS - Healers were also stacking surge. They were also nerfed when surge was nerfed. That you would attempt to say that the surge nerfs give healers "godmode" underscores the fact that you don't know the first thing about healers, which could go a long way toward explaining why you have such a hard time killing them. When a certain class gives me a hard time, I make one so that I can learn more about how to counter it.

 

This, so much this.