@belly - Rolling into natural cover will occasionally bugt insta-charged burst in Ss tree. Known issue since 1.2 with animation changes. Annoying bug especially for pvp where natural cover is so useful.

Denied a third time. requested it be escalated. Manager said no too. Action maybe taken on my acount. I may beat them to taking action on my account. My response: RE: hidden crit mechanics on dread guard proc relics and request for reimbursement of my dread guard of dark radiance or exchange for a dread guard relic of elemental transcendence. This is my fourth and final ticket relating to this issue. Last ticket, action was threatened against my account. I find this appalling. I'm alerting you to a game mechanic that put force users (~half the population) who may have purchased said relic at a disadvantage. There is no item discription or patch notes detailing that the different relics have different proc mechanics based on either force or tech crit. Not only that but the mechanics are counter-intuitive. The best proc relic for my class is elemental even though I do absolutely NO elemental damage. Most of my damage is internal yet the internal proc relic doesn't crit even half the time the elemental one. This mechanic is misleading. Many people are affected by this, whether they know it or not. there has been a thread up in customer service with people requesting the same thing I am requesting. Other have posted in sorc forums they have been reimbursed for the exact same issue. Customer service has not addressed this issue in the official forums in the two threads created regarding this. As for testing gear on the test server as suggested in the last ticket.. that is laugable. Not only has no server transfers to the test server happened since the spring... to grind a toon to 50 then grind out 300 daily coms to test an item is unrealistic. If it was just credits, or cartel coins or running a zone again i would have no problem just buying another one. But it's 300 daily coms. It take weeks to a month to grind that many. Being that i just grinded 600 to buy the two relics I currently own I am not willing to grind out another 300 to purchase another. I invite you to take action on my account for submitting multipe tickets on the same issue. If this issue isnt resolved to my satisfaction I'll take my own action on my account.

Denied a 2nd time. too long has passed. It's like they aren't reading my ticket. Will try a 3rd time. Related tickets: 7215463 7048243

Denied a 2nd time. too long has passed. It's like they aren't reading my ticket. Will try a 3rd time. Related tickets: 7215463 7048243

I tested them all on my sin, torparses for those tests are in the sorc thread with the identicle name. didn't have the coms to test them on my sage. Should get off my lasy arse and get the last 50 coms to buy another :/ maybe i'lldo that this weekend.

Hello Commando's!. Great thread. Thanks for ironing this issue out with nice data. We've had a similar dicussion on the sorc forums. I have been denied a refund for my relic because too much time has passed. I have recreated a ticket and make a thread in the customer support: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5522878#post5522878 Please post there if you've been denied so we can get some attention to this issue.

I have been denied a refund for my relic because too much time has passed. I have recreated a ticket and make a thread in the customer support: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5522878#post5522878 Please post there if you've been denied so we can get some attention to this issue.

I have been denied a refund for my relic because too much time has passed. I have recreated a ticket and make a thread in the customer support: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5522878#post5522878 Please post there if you've been denied so we can get some attention to this issue.

Myself, and many others, have saved up and purchased a dread guard proc relic (dread guard relic of elemental transcendance or dread guard relic of dark radiance). Previous versions of these relics were not considered best in slot and hence have not undergone rigorous testing. Upon acquisition and testing of the current dread guard relics it has been demonstrated that the relics crit mechanics vary between relics. This information is not in the item description nor was it in any patchnotes. It many cases it is counter-intuitive (ex. Sage who does internal damage will crit more with the elemental proc relic than the internal relic proc). Bascially, purchasing the wrong relic for your class/ac means that you wasted your 300 daily commendations on a relic that does not crit as it should. In summary of the crit mechanics: Dark Radiance (internal damage) -> uses tech crit Kinetic Tempest (kinetic damage) -> uses tech crit Elemental Transcendance (elemental damage) -> uses force crit Cerulean Nova (energy damage) -> uses force crit My sage does internal and kinetic damage... so i bought the Dread Guard Relic of Dark Radiance (which does internal damage). However, this relic is using a tech crit rate (which i dont have) to calculate it's crit chance. Hence, I only crit 15-20% of the time with it. However, If I would have purchased the Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendance I would be critting 35-40% of the time with it. This 'crit mechanic' was only described recently in the following threads: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562338 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=556288 I have submitted a ticket (7048243) for a refund for my relic so I may purchase the correct one for my class and have been denied because too much time has elapsed. Others have had the same result. One person has posted that they received a refund for their relic for the same reasons i posted. Time is irrelevant. This is a hidden mechanic that was not obvious within the first 2 hours of using this relic. In fact it took ~ 2 weeks of discussion and data crunching in the forums to figure out this hidden crit mechanic. I must insist that I receive a relic refund for my 300 coms or an exchange of my useless DG relic of dark radiance for the DG relic of elemental transcendance. Thanks

Well energy (and kinetic) is mitigated by armor. The elemental (and internal) are not, and will hit harder even with full armor debuffing. Afaik,the elemental (or internal) are always better with the exception of merc's/troopers who use the armor penetration stance. But since I have no sent/mara to test with and neither understand your class mechanics nor have I bothered reading about classes i dont currently play, you should really test for yourself or consult your own forums on the issue. The fact that you do energy damage is irrelevant. I do internal and kinetic damage on my sage yet the elemental one is better. On my slinger, who does mostly energy (and internal for dirty fighting) damage the internal is better.

Several people have confirmed the findings now.. however I haven't seen any maruaders/sentinels confirm it. I would assume you should switch to the elemental one but I would definately parse it for yourself considering the paucity of data here from knights/warriors. I posted some askmrrobot sentinel parses that showed a low crit rate with the dread guard internal relic (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/6e252dc9-6bda-4919-92e6-fa34905f0054/player/5#d=0,b=1) and a relatively high crit rate with the campaign elemental one (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/eef14011-5c5c-4c8c-a7c0-7bc5555b45a3/player/8#d=0,b=1) but i'd confirm yourself since I dont know the stats on the players making those parses (though there are probably near/better than 1.4 bis)

at least one person has been refunded their coms by submitting a ticket. I am still waitign to hear on my ticket.

EDIT: I just read the tooltips... relic damage is not considered periodic damage. As for demolition, even if the 3% crit affected the elemental crit from the relic.. you'd double your crit swapping to the internal relic.

As far as I know what i posted is correct, however I haven't seen any confirmation for guardians. I'd test it yourself tbh. If you're seeing low crit rates (20%ish) with internal one then it would be safe to swap to the elemental one. I'm unfamiliar with guardians though.. i'm assuming they have no extra armor piercing global skill like troopers/bhs.

Based on this thread and a similar thread in the trooper forums you should have ONE (and only ONE) of: Dread guard relic of elemental transcendance for consulars/inquisitors and warriors/knights Dread guard relic of dark radiance (internal) for smugglers/operatives Dread guard relic of kinetic tempest for troopers/BH using armor peircing cell (or equivalent) Dread guard relic of cerulean nova (energy) for no one.

While I dont agree with your initial statement, the reasons you posted are incorrect. Assuming you're referring to the slinger and sage parses i posted in this thread.. the main reason the slinger has a higher average proc hit is the crit rate discussed in various posts in this thread. If i had posted a sage parse with the elemental version of the relic the average hit rate would have been more in line (assuming equivalent surge/crit ). While dots specs will probably get more out of the proc relics then non dot specs the actual difference would be actually quite small imo. Someone has parsed lethality vs MM for snipers and the proc was better for the 'dot' spec but only by 4 dps. I would expect similar results with the balance/madness vs. tele/lightning specs as well. http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-826-page-34.html - first post page 34

Elemental damage in not mitigated by armor.. so for us and most dps classes it is better than the energy EVEN in the presence of full armor debuffs. The only exception is trooper/BH who use the armor penetrating stance.

The matrix cube hasn't been BIS for months. BIS relics for sage: Dread guard relic of elemental transcendance Dread guard relic of boundless ages In third place, and probably easier to acquire is warhero relic of boundless ages

My relic only provides 45-50dps anyways. Might as well leave the slot empty! Seriously though... this is for min/maxers. But it's BS that a hidden mechanic makes one item better than the other, however big or small the difference is, with no way to know based on patch notes or item description. Collecting 300 daily coms is no quickly completed nor enjoyable feat.

yeah. dont think anyone has discribed the proc mechanics till just now. I'll make an account post there anyways.. i lurk there often anyways. edit: Heh someone beat me too it! Created a ticket to get my internal relic refunded or exchanged for the elemental version. Would suggest other to do the same and post here if they are successful or denied.

Thanks trigger. You're input has been invaluable helping figure this out both on our on forums and here. It appears correct. Here is a parse using my sin (can't resell back the relic on my sage :/) and the dread guard relic of elemental transcendance (elemental proc) and dread guard relic of cerulean nova My stats: Melee crit (37.48% + 9% talented proc with near 100% uptime ); Force crit 36.39% elemental proc : 42% crit rate (46.5 dps) http://www.torparse.com/a/59418 energy proc: 38% crit rate (40.71 dps) http://www.torparse.com/a/59458 I'm okay with this mechanic... makes it so there is actually a reason to have 4 different procs pieces. However, given the cost of the relics and the fact that the proc mechanics are complete hidden is kinda bs.

Will try to confirm shortly, though it will be using my sin since he has the coms to play around with. My sages were spent long ago and i can't refund em

I made a similar post in the sorc forums (generally better mechanics discussion there). See it for more details. Summary: my sin also has ~20% crit rate with the relic. I also tried the kinetic version with him with similar results. Maybe a tech crit rate mechanic rather than a melee crit rate mechanic as I originally proposed.

actually had enough coms on my sin to buy the relics. Did two 10 min parses with the internal and two 10 mins with the kinetic: http://www.torparse.com/a/58690 My stats (running balance): 37.57% melee crit; 36.48% force crit Internal proc: ~22% crit rate Kinetic proc: ~18% crit rate Difference is probably RNG. I did parses with my gunslinger both in dirty fighting (high bleed crit rates) and SS (no bleed benefits) and it made no difference ... 39-43% crit rates. I'm starting to think it's based on tech crit chance on melee crit chance like I had originally proposed. So all force uses are disadvantaged. Just need a trooper/BH to confirm. EDIT: Found a commando on torparse using internal proc relic. Crit rates are 30-40% for the most part. Have no idea his stats http://www.torparse.com/search?s=anonymous

Yeah, I've tried to sift through some parses on torparse 'statistics' but haven't been lucky enough to find one (wish you could separate NiM and HM with torparse statistics) with the new relics. I'll keep looking. I would also like to see a BH/trooper or a shadow/sin parse to see how the crit is affected. I do have a sin but i dont think i have enough coms to buy the relic just yet. Maybe i'll grind some and see if i can figure it out in the next few days... assuming i can sell it back after the testing since i want the tanky ones first ><. excellant question