The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Zhentarion]

Re work! the Resolve system Geees!

[Tsubodia]

Re work! the Resolve system Geees!

 

thats too simple.. we should all shout qq for nerf instead

[Zlashie]

Fix resolve would fix most of my problems really. The main reason I feel Sorc are OP in 1v1 fights (I am melee) is because my target will pretty much be full on resolve instantly, leaving me powerless to CC whilst I am rooted to the ground like a targeted plant.

 

Altho I cant see a problem putting some of the talent tree specific CCs higher in the tree's. Only means this specific cookie cutter awesome CC sorc hybrid build wont be available anymore. Well atleast not so insane on the cc.

[Tumri]

thats too simple.. we should all shout qq for nerf instead

 

A Resolve rework would take months AFTER it was announced. Bioware hasn't even hinted at the idea of a resolve rework.

 

Sorcerer Tweak vs. Resolve Rework

 

It's like the difference between replacing high power lightbulb with a med-power lightbulb and tearing down the whole house to fix the lighting.

 

It's funny that Sorcerers want a resolve rework instead of just a small balancing tweak. It's like every OP class in history trying to preserve their dominance for as long as possible. It's incredibly frustrating to watch.

[Nocturnalis]

A Resolve rework would take months AFTER it was announced. Bioware hasn't even hinted at the idea of a resolve rework.

 

Sorcerer Tweak vs. Resolve Rework

 

It's like the difference between replacing high power lightbulb with a med-power lightbulb and tearing down the whole house to fix the lighting.

 

It's funny that Sorcerers want a resolve rework instead of just a small balancing tweak. It's like every OP class in history trying to preserve their dominance for as long as possible. It's incredibly frustrating to watch.

 

I'm with you on moving talents around. I mean WOW did a few times. But the easiest thing to do is role one, a Sorcerer then it'll get the adjustment it needs. This tends to happen in all games turn a class into a FOTM with countless atl Sorcerers running around and they'll address it.

[Tsubodia]

A Resolve rework would take months AFTER it was announced. Bioware hasn't even hinted at the idea of a resolve rework.

 

Sorcerer Tweak vs. Resolve Rework

 

It's like the difference between replacing high power lightbulb with a med-power lightbulb and tearing down the whole house to fix the lighting.

 

It's funny that Sorcerers want a resolve rework instead of just a small balancing tweak. It's like every OP class in history trying to preserve their dominance for as long as possible. It's incredibly frustrating to watch.

 

 

your logic is 100% wrong. basicly your calling for a nerf to one class in replace of BioWare developers doing their job. what about jedi roots, sith warrior roots, sniper roots.. i can go on forever.

 

a "small balancing tweak" wont balance anything with sorcs. it will break them completely.

 

also.. they havnt even hinted at a sorc nef either.. your point is mute

[Tsubodia]

I'm with you on moving talents around. I mean WOW did a few times. But the easiest thing to do is role one, a Sorcerer then it'll get the adjustment it needs. This tends to happen in all games turn a class into a FOTM with countless atl Sorcerers running around and they'll address it.

 

 

the problem is. the adjustments it needs vs the adjustments the qqers on the forum call for are very different things.

[Tumri]

My server is already at least 40%+ Sorcerers and about 25% Mercenaries right now lol.

 

 

With that said I'm leveling one up right now. I've actually been having some really good low level WZs with my Sorc and before I played one I never knew they had so many tricks.

 

The average Sorcerer doesn't even use half the tools available to him and still does okay. When I was on my Marauder I didn't even know Force Slow was baseline! I always assumed it was a talent or something because I barely had it used against me.

 

Even without Backlash and Electric bindings I'm finding myself kiting most level 40-49 players with ease. It's unbelievable but I didn't know that the delay from the knockback didn't root you in place. I had always thought that once you cast Overload you had to stand still but I was amazed when I found this to not be the case. I've been averaging about 250-300k damage in the basic greens/and odd blues from quests and drops around my level and my Sorcerer isn't even high enough level for Force Storm so it's almost all single target. With the baseline CC I find that it's simple enough to juke people into places where they'll get knocked back into a fire or down a ramp or the balcony in Alderaan WZ. I feel like I'll be untouchable once I get all my talents on this character.

[prien]

Its kinda sad that sorcs are the strongest/most durable healer as well as the highest dpsing class in warzones. As a scoundrel I hate that bubble as a dps sec sorc protects more then 2 stacks of slow release medpac over 18 seconds. Because of the mecanics even if it didn't protect for a higher number it would still be far superior due to the mechanics of the spells

[Tumri]

your logic is 100% wrong. basicly your calling for a nerf to one class in replace of BioWare developers doing their job. what about jedi roots, sith warrior roots, sniper roots.. i can go on forever.

 

a "small balancing tweak" wont balance anything with sorcs. it will break them completely.

 

also.. they havnt even hinted at a sorc nef either.. your point is mute

 

Do you think before you type? A "small balancing tweak" will not break them completely. It's a "SMALL BALANCING TWEAK". Read that again. Hopefully you get it.

 

I'm also sure you could go on forever. I'll do it for you. Operative roots, Assassin roots, Roots Roots, etc. You know, all the imaginary CCs that those classes don't have? It's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.

[Tsubodia]

My server is already at least 40%+ Sorcerers and about 25% Mercenaries right now lol.

 

 

With that said I'm leveling one up right now. I've actually been having some really good low level WZs with my Sorc and before I played one I never knew they had so many tricks.

 

The average Sorcerer doesn't even use half the tools available to him and still does okay. When I was on my Marauder I didn't even know Force Slow was baseline! I always assumed it was a talent or something because I barely had it used against me.

 

Even without Backlash and Electric bindings I'm finding myself kiting most level 40-49 players with ease. It's unbelievable but I didn't know that the delay from the knockback didn't root you in place. I had always thought that once you cast Overload you had to stand still but I was amazed when I found this to not be the case. I've been averaging about 250-300k damage in the basic greens/and odd blues from quests and drops around my level and my Sorcerer isn't even high enough level for Force Storm so it's almost all single target. With the baseline CC I find that it's simple enough to juke people into places where they'll get knocked back into a fire or down a ramp or the balcony in Alderaan WZ. I feel like I'll be untouchable once I get all my talents on this character.

 

at low level you will destroy **** as a lot of classes dont get their usefull talents till much later and sorcs have good baseline dmg. on the other hand if ppl are allowing you to do that damage thats not you being op thats them being bad. its very easy to limit sorc damage by knowing how to play and how they work. If your kiting lvl40-49s then they really are bad. Force slow may be baseline but it does only have a 50% uptime. the rest you need to cast fl to keep them slowed and considering most classes have enough interupts and gap closers/stealth vanishes to avoid it there is no real reason for them to complain.

 

wait till you face some good platers in 50 pvp and watch how fast they tunnel you down. then watch how you die in a stun whislt you cant do anything about it.

[Tsubodia]

Do you think before you type? A "small balancing tweak" will not break them completely. It's a "SMALL BALANCING TWEAK". Read that again. Hopefully you get it.

 

I'm also sure you could go on forever. I'll do it for you. Operative roots, Assassin roots, Roots Roots, etc. You know, all the imaginary CCs that those classes don't have? It's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.

 

again read my next post after that. the ~"small balancing tweaks" that 90% of the player base propose WILL break the class or result in them being buffed elsewhere

[shaidarlol]

Do you think before you type? A "small balancing tweak" will not break them completely. It's a "SMALL BALANCING TWEAK". Read that again. Hopefully you get it.

 

I'm also sure you could go on forever. I'll do it for you. Operative roots, Assassin roots, Roots Roots, etc. You know, all the imaginary CCs that those classes don't have? It's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.

 

operatives most definitely have a root, as well as assassin's if they choose to play madness.

[Renlotho]

Spot on OP and cheers.

 

I love the comparison to Marauder/Sent which has very little utility outside of group buffs and then comparable DPS with weak CC. Marauders/Sents are FORCED to 31 point spec to be viable at all. Either BW needs to make us all have some hybrid spec potential (eg moving precision slash down to tier 3 or what have you) or they need to make all classes be 31 point talent classes. If only some classes have access to viable hybrids those hybrids CANNOT be more powerful that going 31 points deep. Great post, great points, great solutions.

 

I usually eat sorcs for breakfast, but have always been jelly of their hybrid abilities and the complete lack in my class. They dominate huttball as everyone knows. If more top tier players played sorcs then it would be clear how OP they are. Luckily baddies flock to the sorc so most are very, very killable especially for my scissors to their paper class. That said the most feared opponents on my server are all hybrid sorcs. They just have top shelf players behind them and the CC/DPS combo is unbeatable in the most skilled players hands.

[ScipioAemilianus]

I think there is something fundamentally not right when doing PVP in this game, do I think its the class or one that is better than the other? no I think ther eare a couple of things that need to happen here.

 

1 most definatly we need mroe time to pass before we start tweeking. You know one class tweek has an effect on the ohers in thier play. give it a solid year before tweeking and see if its a factor of people that are complaining about this mythical "balance" get better at thier class or jsut move to something and find they are better at it. I think honestly lack of experiance is what cuases the crying. Peopel always try to impy the last game's tactics to a fresh new game.

 

2 While I am sure it is helpful none of us are programers. . .or else we prolly would be working there. So with out knowing the formulas and thier real intentions its best to not assume.

 

3 in a recent study they foudn people are willign to pay less for somethign than they are expecting to recive for the implied value. why do I mention this? becuae I see alot of complaining and wanting a huge net gain while giving up little.

 

if you really think a class is over powered play it. there are ways around everythign, that's how I learn the weak spots. While I am not downing the fact that there is somethign amiss withthe PVP in this game, I can't quite put my finger on it. I think its that there are so many options, so much of pvp I see is root shoot repete.

 

I would suggest that we tread softly on this "balance quest" becuase it is one of the major factors that contributed to wow's demise. every patch someone was either getting nerfed or pimped. I would honestly say that I could bet a ******** on why you see so many Sith Sorcs. being inq is one of 4 classes you can play, it has the heals and the dps aspect. and holy crap was it not cool to shoot lightning out of your fingers? Who wouldn't want to do that? Agent seems to not have much sex appeal, BH is pretty popular same as sith warrior. other than that I woudl say that is why you see so many of the big 3. . . .and after all republic is just fruity and no one wants to play them.

 

every class is crying right now that ttells me that people have to truely get thier minds in this game, and learn it before we start tweeking. this is not to say tweeks don't need made, I saw the video of the 3 hit gunslinger kills. we need to learn the game, not make the game learn us. we all seem to want different from wow type MMO's and this seems to bring it, why do we want to turn it back into what we came from?

[Tumri]

operatives most definitely have a root, as well as assassin's if they choose to play madness.

 

That wasn't typed out as well as it could have been. I was listing the others that had any sort of root and the "Any other imaginary CC that other classes don't have" was referring to the huge amount of Sorcerer CC that other classes don't get in any shape or form. I should have said "And all the other CC that other classes get imaginary versions of".

Edited February 15, 2012 by Tumri

[Renlotho]

at low level you will destroy **** as a lot of classes dont get their usefull talents till much later and sorcs have good baseline dmg. on the other hand if ppl are allowing you to do that damage thats not you being op thats them being bad. its very easy to limit sorc damage by knowing how to play and how they work. If your kiting lvl40-49s then they really are bad. Force slow may be baseline but it does only have a 50% uptime. the rest you need to cast fl to keep them slowed and considering most classes have enough interupts and gap closers/stealth vanishes to avoid it there is no real reason for them to complain.

 

wait till you face some good platers in 50 pvp and watch how fast they tunnel you down. then watch how you die in a stun whislt you cant do anything about it.

 

LOL, right cause sorcs never kill folks with stuns...right....RIGHT?! Come on man his changes are perfectly reasonable. A good sorc using CC wisely will lock me down and carry on DPSing the crud out of my team mates. They can also kite all day if they have half a brain. If you can't do it, you are playing your toon wrong. The difference between a good sorc and a bad one is almost as wide a gulf as a good vs bad sent/marauder.

[shaidarlol]

LOL, right cause sorcs never kill folks with stuns...right....RIGHT?! Come on man his changes are perfectly reasonable. A good sorc using CC wisely will lock me down and carry on DPSing the crud out of my team mates. They can also kite all day if they have half a brain. If you can't do it, you are playing your toon wrong. The difference between a good sorc and a bad one is almost as wide a gulf as a good vs bad sent/marauder.

 

actually the OP is completely implying that a the difference between a good and a bad sorc/sage is really small, as where the difference between a good and a bad say marauder for example is huge.

[ScipioAemilianus]

I don't think I would like to see nerfs so much as other class skill trees being fixed to be more useful, or to have less abilities, I have a handful I don't even use becuase they are practicallu not worth using. I have some skills in my tree that aren't worth the point but you have to take to get to the next spot.

 

I think some classes might be working correctly, I think others just might not be. It could be a matter of perspective. A true way to do this is to have bioware look into the pros and cons of each. each one should have a counter for the other, ther eshould be one you dominate and one you don't but it should be mixed to ensure a reason for each class to exist. other wise just have one class that does all the same things.

[JohnSixteen]

You found that you had a 50% Sorcerer/Sage population on your servers WZs and you thought that was all people that rolled the class because it was cool?

 

Precisely the reason I rolled the class. They carry lightsabers and shoot lightning out of their fingertips, does it seriously get any cooler than that?

[shaidarlol]

Precisely the reason I rolled the class. They carry lightsabers and shoot lightning out of their fingertips, does it seriously get any cooler than that?

 

i am sorry, your reason of rolling a sorcerer is completely invalid because of the "fact" that they are op, because it is the only reason to roll a sorcerer.

[Iamurfriend]

Hey look, we have an official bad kid thread. Good to know!

[Zhentarion]

Some ppl read Star wars novels etc and Like sith Sorcery

ppl who roll the class just cos its op is kinda lame and i feal sorry for them

[ScipioAemilianus]

Some ppl read Star wars novels etc and Like sith Sorcery

ppl who roll the class just cos its op is kinda lame and i feal sorry for them

 

I wasn't a big fan when I heard it called sorcery. . .seems very fantasyish to me instead of sci fi. . . .I better not see any freaking druids or elves running around.. . .

[shaidarlol]

Hey look, we have an official bad kid thread. Good to know!

 

here is the irony behind this, the OP which i do not think is bad at marauder, in fact i think he's probably above average at the class, in his original post with all the screen shots, he clearly does NOT have a problem out performing sorc/sages in warzones. and yet he wants them nerfed.

 

this just completely baffles me.

 

edit: re-adjusting the talents in some fashion is considered a nerf no matter how you word it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by shaidarlol