Make Biometric Crystal Alloy Not BoP

[CulannHS]

Forcing someone to run heroics for even a chance of getting one to make Rakata reusables, and then having to get 2 more if you want the "set", is absurd.

 

Either make it not BoP so I can buy them, or make a way to obtain it via PvP.

 

I'm not looking to hear if any diehard carebear tells me that my idea is bad for x reason, because it doesn't pertain to you and you should have no say in it. I'm also not looking to hear "TOR is a story driven PvE game with a PvP minigame" because I don't care and it doesn't matter how you play the game, it matters at least in the business sense that Bioware can accommodate the 2 biggest customers who the game is advertised for, PvEers and PvPers.

 

There is no reason to limit it to PvE because frankly you should realize not everyone wants to PvE. And don't tell me that whether you agree it should be more available I should do it anyway. I'm not sinking time without a guarantee of getting one, having to form a group and run through the instance in PvP gear and a PvP spec.

 

I've had a plethora of complaints about the game but I'm not one to cry about things or ragequit, clearly I am still playing. In spite of the fact that my AoE stun doesn't function, all my gear is stacked with useless accuracy, and Surge got nerfed, I still can enjoy the game.

 

But adding on top the fact that neckbeards who can and want to devote enough time for and enjoy PvE on top of PvP should get a boost in PvP simply because they can get a use out of their Crew Skill, which should inherently be usable by anyone who has it maxed, is downright terrible.

 

First off let me state for the record:

 

I DO NOT HAVE BIOCHEM ON ANY CHARACTER!

 

That said...

 

I agree with this. Make the damn things BoE already. I've got a 400 Cybertech, 400 Armstech and a 400 Artificer, and I literally cannot make any of their best stuff unless I do ops or HMs. That's a Rift trick that ended up exploding in Trion's faces spectacularly. Worse, if I get one on one of my characters, then I can't give it to another of mine to make something that another may need.

 

It's not a smart design decision BW. Sorry but it's not and I'm not sure you have any way to rationalize or explain this otherwise. Right now it's just a huge cluster-F that needs resolving by altering BOP to BOE.

Edited February 22, 2012 by CulannHS

[Trimanir]

I'd make battlemaster bag drop PVP recipies and linked rare ressources (different or not from PVE ones)

 

Rare ressources should NOT be BOP, if it's the case a crafter need more HM and OP run than a normal PVE player to get good at his craft (that doesnt make sence)

 

If they really want to restrict crafting, make an alloy bind to looter but tradable to crafter, so it can craft an already bound item with it (bound to mat looter).

 

 

 

Also rakata recipies should not be on sale at the vendors.

[Tenetke]

First off let me state for the record:

 

I DO NOT HAVE BIOCHEM ON ANY CHARACTER!

 

That said...

 

I agree with this. Make the damn things BoE already. I've got a 400 Cybertech, 400 Armstech and a 400 Artificer, and I literally cannot make any of their best stuff unless I do ops or HMs. That's a Rift trick that ended up exploding in Trion's faces spectacularly. Worse, if I get one on one of my characters, then I can't give it to another of mine to make something that another may need.

 

It's not a smart design decision BW. Sorry but it's not and I'm not sure you have any way to rationalize or explain this otherwise. Right now it's just a huge cluster-F that needs resolving by altering BOP to BOE.

 

It is smart if you want people to participate in end game pve. Either they do it and get their mats, or they don't and they complain. By making them sellable you make it so that people who play the market can now do just that and never have to do any of the end game pve content. Which robs those who do that content a valuable part of the market. Right now the people that do end game pve get special rewards for putting in the effort. Those that don't shouldn't have access to it.

[CulannHS]

It is smart if you want people to participate in end game pve. Either they do it and get their mats, or they don't and they complain. By making them sellable you make it so that people who play the market can now do just that and never have to do any of the end game pve content. Which robs those who do that content a valuable part of the market. Right now the people that do end game pve get special rewards for putting in the effort. Those that don't shouldn't have access to it.

 

Forcing someone to participate in something they may not want to is not smart. End of story.

 

Some people may not have the time, or inclination to become involved in ops or HMs to get these things, and for BW to force people to do so is just poor, with no legitimate justification.

 

Insofar as robbing people who do that content, that's facetious and a extraordinarily poor argument. Unless I'm mistaken...I thought actual gear and credits dropped in ops and HMs. Was I incorrect? Don't the people who run those get shots at looting gear and credits while doing the HMs? (Yeah, that's sarcasm)

 

Bottom line is that it doesn't hurt anyone. As I said before, Trion tried this and it blew up in their faces. It's a poor design decision and subsequent implementation to begin with. The best approach to making it a little more palatable is to make them BoE.

[Remulan]

.... Biochem benefots PvP players more than PvE players....

 

How you can say this with a straight face? Pvpers already get almost free adrenals and health packs which blow away the rakata reusables in pvp. The only thing they need to buy is a stim, which lasts through death and is usable by anyone. So pvpers can just pick up gathering skills to max credits while pvping.

 

A pve player is still almost forced into biochem because of the adrenal situation, there just aren't enough of them available due to crafting costs and time, so even if you had unlimited credits you would have trouble supplying yourself enough adrenals to use whenever you wanted.

[DarthWalt]

I have issue with this as well.

 

 

Arty needs these items to craft our end game items. However our LS are lvl 48. 2 lvls below what you need to do HM FP. So you want people to be geared enough to go get these items needed to craft items that are now below our useable range.

 

You then expect us to do so and sell the unuasble items to lower lvl players. Why not just make the Items BoE or Bind on Use so they can be sold to lower lvl players so they can craft the item themselves.

 

 

 

I just dont see the logic in BoP items being used to make lower lvl gear then whats needed to achive winning the FP.

 

For you WoWheads it would be like needing a gear score of 5000k to do a run for an item what if you equip will ower your Gear score. Thats just dumb.

[livnthedream]

Forcing someone to participate in something they may not want to is not smart. End of story.

 

im a pacifist. i dont want to have to kill things. i only want to play through my class story, so can i just get an auto skip feature so thats all i have to play?

 

strawman aside, that is not how the game is designed. perhaps you are in the wrong place.

 

Some people may not have the time, or inclination to become involved in ops or HMs to get these things, and for BW to force people to do so is just poor, with no legitimate justification.

 

to get an above average level of gear you should have to do above average things. you are asking for freebie mats for items that are bis, or in the case of biochem, a huge credit saver.

 

Bottom line is that it doesn't hurt anyone. As I said before, Trion tried this and it blew up in their faces. It's a poor design decision and subsequent implementation to begin with. The best approach to making it a little more palatable is to make them BoE.

 

it does though. it makes it harder for those actually running hms/ops for them to acquire (higher demand, same supply) and decreases the overall difficulty of the game itself through making it trivial to gear up. at no time should you be able to ding max level and instantly put on multiple pieces of bis loot. also what are you on about with rift? trion never had a crafting mat tied to either t1/t2 or raids, especially one that was bop.

[livnthedream]

I have issue with this as well.

 

 

Arty needs these items to craft our end game items. However our LS are lvl 48. 2 lvls below what you need to do HM FP. So you want people to be geared enough to go get these items needed to craft items that are now below our useable range.

 

You then expect us to do so and sell the unuasble items to lower lvl players. Why not just make the Items BoE or Bind on Use so they can be sold to lower lvl players so they can craft the item themselves.

 

 

 

I just dont see the logic in BoP items being used to make lower lvl gear then whats needed to achive winning the FP.

 

For you WoWheads it would be like needing a gear score of 5000k to do a run for an item what if you equip will ower your Gear score. Thats just dumb.

 

just because its usuable at a lower level doesnt mean its less powerful. in this game gear rating doesnt matter in the slightest. the sheer fact that you brought up any kind of gear level into the discussion shows just how little you not only know about the current system, but the finer points of gearing in mmos in general.

[Appletaz]

I have to agree with the OP. I can understand making the item scarce... because the Rakata item is pretty awesome once it is made. But free enterprise should allow it to be sold on the GTN! Right now I'm regretting that at 50 I decided to make another character my main and the one with biochem at 400 is an alt.

[Raeln]

I wish I could buy them with centurion tokens. After you are champ geared they are kind of pointless.

 

I wish I could just buy them with credits.

 

I'm just no fan of BoP items in MMOs anymore.

[Raeln]

It is smart if you want people to participate in end game pve. Either they do it and get their mats, or they don't and they complain. By making them sellable you make it so that people who play the market can now do just that and never have to do any of the end game pve content. Which robs those who do that content a valuable part of the market. Right now the people that do end game pve get special rewards for putting in the effort. Those that don't shouldn't have access to it.

 

So you want to bolster the elitist community instead of fostering competitive growth in the player run market and server economy?

 

I see.

[livnthedream]

So you want to bolster the elitist community instead of fostering competitive growth in the player run market and server economy?

 

I see.

 

i see you being more elitist than the general community with that very statement. you dont like bop, fine. if the other current mmos that are working off from this model are any indication they will go boe as soon as the next content tier comes out to help foster "catch up".

 

as has been stated they are already very fair in how to get them. the only person stopping you from getting them is you.

[Raeln]

How you can say this with a straight face? Pvpers already get almost free adrenals and health packs which blow away the rakata reusables in pvp. The only thing they need to buy is a stim, which lasts through death and is usable by anyone. So pvpers can just pick up gathering skills to max credits while pvping.

 

A pve player is still almost forced into biochem because of the adrenal situation, there just aren't enough of them available due to crafting costs and time, so even if you had unlimited credits you would have trouble supplying yourself enough adrenals to use whenever you wanted.

 

Locking crafting materials in only a very specific portion of the game is a bad idea, regardless of what portion they are locked in or what crafting skill they are for.

 

I was very disappointed to see the alloys be another frozen orb all over again. The only crafting material that should be BoP or rare should be the restrictive dropped piece used in a system where crafters actually make the PvE end game set gear. You take the dropped material to a crafter and they make you the piece.

 

Otherwise, no crafting materials should be BoP or locked up in a specific area of the game. Crew missions should give a chance at getting one and they should be purchasable with daily commendation, if not simply BoE to be sold on the galactic market.

 

The galactic market is really a joke right now.

[Raeln]

i see you being more elitist than the general community with that very statement. you dont like bop, fine. if the other current mmos that are working off from this model are any indication they will go boe as soon as the next content tier comes out to help foster "catch up".

 

as has been stated they are already very fair in how to get them. the only person stopping you from getting them is you.

 

How am I being elitist when I want Bioware to revert a policy that generally encourages elitism?

 

Alloys are not very fair in how you get them. My trooper had the Rakata recipes at level 40. I had epic endowment implants (lvl 45) waiting in the cargo hold at level 40. Those Rakata recipes are level 48. You can't run hardmode flashpoints before 50. Do you see some small inconsistency there at all?

 

BoP items forcibly corral players into doing content they may or may not even want to do just to get the item. Sometimes, these players are not even well geared enough to be trying this content in the first place. Once completed, the crafter is at the whim of the group for whether or not they even get the BoP item when it dropped.

 

Look, I'm not going as far as to say that set pieces should be BoE. They should be BoA for sure, but I'm not saying BoE. Crafting materials in this game are different though. They should all be BoE, along with no raid dropped schematics. Schematics should be discovered through reverse engineering - so crafting is detached from PvE or PvP and a completely different progression path on its own.

 

I was so excited to hit 400 biochem and make my way to the trainer. I trained several rakata recipes because I am a collector at heart. I wanted to know all of them. I looked at what I needed to make the Rakata stuff and set off to the galactic market to find an alloy. None to be found. I had to go to Torhead - where I quickly found that it was the Frozen Orb from WoW all over again.

 

My hopes for a good crafting system died right there. Placing BoP crafting materials in PvE or PvP sentences the crafting system to never being more than a sideshow at best. With a crew mission system, I do not understand how such an error could ever be made - what better reward could there be for a crafter than for their companion to bring back that alloy as part of the mission reward?

Edited February 22, 2012 by Raeln

[Graverobbin]

I'm with the OP. Some people don't LIKE to do PVE. Can I? Yes, but with the ridiculously long FP's in this game I'm not the slightest bit interested. And I shouldn't be gimped in PVP because other's there play PVE and get stuff not available to PVP.

 

If you can't get the PVE mats from PVP, give us a similar/equivalent version from PVP. Say... Battlemaster Might Stim?

 

Edit: Idea, let the BCA mat be a rare drop from BM Bags? That makes it still not "easy mode" to pick up but gives PVPers a shot at getting it as well as PVEers.

 

I'm a PvPer, but this is not a PvP based game. Do some PvE for what you want or just make due with what you have at your disposal.

 

WoW PvPers had this silly idea that PvP was more macho and that they were the superior player than those that chose to play the game as a whole.

[livnthedream]

Locking crafting materials in only a very specific portion of the game is a bad idea, regardless of what portion they are locked in or what crafting skill they are for.

 

I was very disappointed to see the alloys be another frozen orb all over again. The only crafting material that should be BoP or rare should be the restrictive dropped piece used in a system where crafters actually make the PvE end game set gear. You take the dropped material to a crafter and they make you the piece.

 

Otherwise, no crafting materials should be BoP or locked up in a specific area of the game. Crew missions should give a chance at getting one and they should be purchasable with daily commendation, if not simply BoE to be sold on the galactic market.

 

The galactic market is really a joke right now.

 

i disagree entirely. they already DO make endgame level gear. virtually every piece that requires them is bis. asking them to be freebies that are freely tradeable is much more hurtful to the game than setting them free. they considerably lower the barrier to entry and make getting "to good" of gear to easy in its current state. making them even easier to obtain is silly.

 

in what way is the market a joke? most of the issues i see with the market are due to misinformation more than anything. too many people who dont understand what stats actually do and how to get them, on top of training from other games that frankly doesnt work in this one.

 

i get into arguments with people in trade a fair bit over the silliest things, like people thinking that gear rating is everything, or that accuracy is required for sorc/sage. its quite silly. on top of that they come here and everyone and their mother yells at them to go biochem when frankly its not an end all be all skill like many preach.

[Phoboo]

Yes it would be nice if it was BoE, so people can sell it on the GTN

[Raeln]

i disagree entirely. they already DO make endgame level gear. virtually every piece that requires them is bis. asking them to be freebies that are freely tradeable is much more hurtful to the game than setting them free. they considerably lower the barrier to entry and make getting "to good" of gear to easy in its current state. making them even easier to obtain is silly.

 

in what way is the market a joke? most of the issues i see with the market are due to misinformation more than anything. too many people who dont understand what stats actually do and how to get them, on top of training from other games that frankly doesnt work in this one.

 

i get into arguments with people in trade a fair bit over the silliest things, like people thinking that gear rating is everything, or that accuracy is required for sorc/sage. its quite silly. on top of that they come here and everyone and their mother yells at them to go biochem when frankly its not an end all be all skill like many preach.

 

At this point:

-There is a small market for stims/medpacks.

-No market for adrenals.

-No market for barrels/armoring mods as they are outclassed by dailies.

-I can't find aim mods on my server's GLM to save my life - though it's bleeding willpower mods.

-Almost all end-game gear is BoP, either through commendations or tokens. There is a piece or two that is crafted, but only critted (aug slots). The rest is nigh worthless.

-The rare material for those pieces is BoP and cannot be sold on the GLM.

-The RE system is bugged with some crafters going into hundreds of combines without a single new schematic discovery. Even if they do discover a schematic, it has a chance to be one that is already known (/rolleyes).

 

Thanks for admitting that you argue in /trade. That tells me a lot about what type of player you are.

[livnthedream]

Alloys are not very fair in how you get them. My trooper had the Rakata recipes at level 40. I had epic endowment implants (lvl 45) waiting in the cargo hold at level 40. Those Rakata recipes are level 48. You can't run hardmode flashpoints before 50. Do you see some small inconsistency there at all?

 

BoP items forcibly corral players into doing content they may or may not even want to do just to get the item. Sometimes, these players are not even well geared enough to be trying this content in the first place. Once completed, the crafter is at the whim of the group for whether or not they even get the BoP item when it dropped.

 

so you are more whining about the item requirements on the items themselves? you would feel better if it was lvl 50 required instead? also, your complaints about gear are truly silly. the barrier to entry is already SUPER low. base "48" blues more than meet the gear requirements. as to wether or not they "should" drop from higher level places is a matter of opinion we will have to disagree on. you want raid level loot, you already are getting a free leg to loot that is a step above the level of the content, how many tiers do you really want to skip?

 

Look, I'm not going as far as to say that set pieces should be BoE. They should be BoA for sure, but I'm not saying BoE. Crafting materials in this game are different though. They should all be BoE, along with no raid dropped schematics. Schematics should be discovered through reverse engineering - so crafting is detached from PvE or PvP and a completely different progression path on its own.

 

i wholeheartedly disagree. boa in general is stupid. especially for this game that doesnt have the added requirement of rep grinds etc. if you want items on a character, PLAY THAT CHARACTER.

 

as to crafting being its own standalone playstyle no. it doesnt fit the theme of this game nor should it. by design. you are playing a hero, and frankly, a shop owner isnt one.

[livnthedream]

At this point:

-There is a small market for stims/medpacks.

-No market for adrenals.

-No market for barrels/armoring mods as they are outclassed by dailies.

-I can't find aim mods on my server's GLM to save my life - though it's bleeding willpower mods.

-Almost all end-game gear is BoP, either through commendations or tokens. There is a piece or two that is crafted, but only critted (aug slots). The rest is nigh worthless.

-The rare material for those pieces is BoP and cannot be sold on the GLM.

-The RE system is bugged with some crafters going into hundreds of combines without a single new schematic discovery. Even if they do discover a schematic, it has a chance to be one that is already known (/rolleyes).

 

Thanks for admitting that you argue in /trade. That tells me a lot about what type of player you are.

 

there is a market for stims, medpacks, and adrenals. i personally buy all of them. not only that but it feeds into the very point i brought up above and you cleverly attempted to dismiss. player ignorance has done far more damage to the system than anything that is actually wrong with it. case in point, you do relize that the bis ear/implants for sage/sorc is actually crafted right? they dont require a bop material. on top of that you yourself are spreading more misinformation by claiming that anything that isnt bis is worthless. do you really understand how absolutely tiny the percentage is that actually achieve "bis" for any given tier is? the current well itemized pieces of crafted loot is already at worse columni level, most pieces are within 3 points of rakata, with a few actually surpassing.

 

also, you know the re system is bugged, why are you continuing to slog through it? are you honestly that insane? stock up on mats, or sell what you currently have. you shouldnt be attempting to continue to push a system that is obviously broken.

[Raeln]

so you are more whining about the item requirements on the items themselves? you would feel better if it was lvl 50 required instead? also, your complaints about gear are truly silly. the barrier to entry is already SUPER low. base "48" blues more than meet the gear requirements. as to wether or not they "should" drop from higher level places is a matter of opinion we will have to disagree on. you want raid level loot, you already are getting a free leg to loot that is a step above the level of the content, how many tiers do you really want to skip?

 

Consistency is the mark of a professional.

 

Making level 48 recipes require materials that only drop from level 50 content is not consistent and by extension, not professional.

 

I could say a lot more here, but I'll just stop at that.

 

i wholeheartedly disagree. boa in general is stupid. especially for this game that doesnt have the added requirement of rep grinds etc. if you want items on a character, PLAY THAT CHARACTER.

 

As a player, I put in the time and effort to acquire that item and gear. BoP was originally designed to prevent players from just buying their way to end-game gear. The game it was originally implemented in (Everquest 1) was not a game of alts. It took too long to level a single character to max level so very few players had end-game geared mains and alts at the same time. BoA was never a factor there.

 

This game is different. Bioware expects you to level many alts. The entire Legacy system bolsters that game design and BoA gear and items will be necessary to make that happen.

 

Sorry that you believe otherwise.

 

as to crafting being its own standalone playstyle no. it doesnt fit the theme of this game nor should it. by design. you are playing a hero, and frankly, a shop owner isnt one.

 

Crafting and crew missions (outside of slicing and underworld trading) make no sense anyway for most classes. As the commander of Havoc squad, never, in a thousand years, am I going to send my whole squad off on their own to various planets to gather dinky materials to return and try to build things on my ship.

 

Negative.

 

Now what I might do as the most elite squad CO is try to steal Imperial tech or sabotage their efforts at researching new technology, but it makes no sense for these high profile companions of mine to be going on gardening missions to recover chunks of metal or psychedelic fungus spores when there are far more important things to do be done in the first place.

 

This isn't the case though. Crafting was made to fit because it is an expectation in an MMO. It makes little sense story wise and is there as something for the player to do. If crafting were bound to the story theme, then all of our healer companions would automatically be biochems. At least one of our DPS companions would likely be armstechs. Our tank companions would be armortechs and our droids (for those that have them) would be cybertechs. That's not the case though.

 

Crafting is independent of the story line and should also not be dependent on PvE or PvP for any of its required materials or schematics.

[Girltank]

now imagine if you were armormech and the armor you can make is worse than the pvp armor you can get but you need 5 crystals instead of 3......

 

I do agree that it is a bit silly they mixed pve with crafting but I understand why with biochem as it is a permanent and powerful increase to your character.

[Raeln]

there is a market for stims, medpacks, and adrenals. i personally buy all of them. not only that but it feeds into the very point i brought up above and you cleverly attempted to dismiss. player ignorance has done far more damage to the system than anything that is actually wrong with it. case in point, you do relize that the bis ear/implants for sage/sorc is actually crafted right? they dont require a bop material. on top of that you yourself are spreading more misinformation by claiming that anything that isnt bis is worthless. do you really understand how absolutely tiny the percentage is that actually achieve "bis" for any given tier is? the current well itemized pieces of crafted loot is already at worse columni level, most pieces are within 3 points of rakata, with a few actually surpassing.

 

also, you know the re system is bugged, why are you continuing to slog through it? are you honestly that insane? stock up on mats, or sell what you currently have. you shouldnt be attempting to continue to push a system that is obviously broken.

 

I have personally constructed and reverse engineered almost 100 of those implants.

 

I have discovered exactly ONE epic implant schematic in those 100 reverse engineer attempts. I was making DPS implants and I discovered a tanking schematic.

 

Yay me.

 

Also, those implants are almost worthless unless they crit and have the augment slot. Out of all the implants that I have made (again, 100+ now), maybe 10 of those have crit.

 

Crafting needs help. I could live with a BoP material if getting the material was the only "RNG" involved with crafting in general. It's not though. There are several negatives adding up here that leads to a less than satisfactory experience.

[Sqyre]

I appreciate that tip.. spent 3 hours on some crappy harmode yesterday (wiping multiple times because we suck at it) and one didn't drop.

 

if you can't defeat the content what makes you think that you deserve the reward?

[bigheadbrandon]

they should just make rakata gear bind on equip so i can buy it because i cant do operations!