DOTs and preventing player from capturing point

[Wintervoid]

I am a Scoundrel and I do use Dots to help prevent capping. I think a few things need to be cleared up though.

 

First, can the Dots be cleansed or not? I always thought that they could by cleanses that cleanse physical effects. On the Scoundrel board, I have read that Dirty Fighting (DoT Branch) can be made ineffective by one cleanse. IMO, if they can not be cleansed, then I do think that needs to be adjusted so that they can be cleansed. If they can be cleansed, I do not see a major issue at all.

 

Second, do shields prevent you from being interrupted while capping? If so, is this not a similar issue but in reverse?

 

Third, Dots really are not that great in PvP as I am sure everyone knows. I rarely used Vital Shot until I learned that it prevents capping. I am pretty sure that I have had people cap while dotted, so I had thought that there were good counters to the tactic in place already.

 

I would prefer that viable counters are implemented to add more stratagy to WZs instead of just taking away this tactic.

[Anthiel]

Its not wanting PvP dumbed down. Dots should not keep you in combat once you kill the person who put it on you. You should not be interrupted by damage when you arent in combat. I can maybe see still being setback.

 

Dumbing down is different than making things work like they should. It may seem like its dumbing down, because people have developed tactics around this bad game mechanic, but its not.

 

who are you to say things arnt working as they should?

[Bnol]

I am a Scoundrel and I do use Dots to help prevent capping. I think a few things need to be cleared up though.

 

First, can the Dots be cleansed or not? I always thought that they could by cleanses that cleanse physical effects. On the Scoundrel board, I have read that Dirty Fighting (DoT Branch) can be made ineffective by one cleanse. IMO, if they can not be cleansed, then I do think that needs to be adjusted so that they can be cleansed. If they can be cleansed, I do not see a major issue at all.

 

Second, do shields prevent you from being interrupted while capping? If so, is this not a similar issue but in reverse?

 

Third, Dots really are not that great in PvP as I am sure everyone knows. I rarely used Vital Shot until I learned that it prevents capping. I am pretty sure that I have had people cap while dotted, so I had thought that there were good counters to the tactic in place already.

 

I would prefer that viable counters are implemented to add more stratagy to WZs instead of just taking away this tactic.

 

DoTs come in various categories (tech/physical/force) and different classes can cleanse different categories. The most important are tech (which ops/scoundrel dots are) and force (where sorc/sage dots are). Tech can be cleansed by Merc/Commandos and Ops/Scoundrels and force is only cleansable by Sorc/sage.

 

The stealth classes also have a remove all negative effects tied to their evasion abilities. So they can utilize those abilities to clear dots.

 

Shields do not help in capping as even absorbed damage will stop a cap.

[Bnol]

Except that DOTS are how players deal with stealth classes when they vanish, and they also go OOC. How is removing this affect going to do anything but make stealth classes incredibly OP? The only other way to deal with vanish is spam AOE's and pray that you get lucky. Given that objectives can be capped in-stealth now, you really want to give them the ability to just vanish mid-fight (even with dots) and cap objectives at their whim?

 

As previously stated, there are skills that wipe DOTS and I can't comment on other classes, but the sorc/sage's is on an extremely short cool-down. With the abundance of sorc/sages they should be aware of the situation and move to wipe DOTS from people capping - it's part of the utility of the class. If people aren't doing this on your server, then teach them.

 

If this is implemented, i'm rolling an Operative.

 

He is talking about the channel of the OOC regen ability, which would take the stealth class out of stealth. Further, stealth classes can clear all negative effects by using their evasion ability, which is on a shorter CD than their vanish. Your DoTs are not much of a counter to those stealth classes as they can easily vanish mid fight by using their evasion ability and vanish.

 

DoTs come in different types, and each class can only dispel so many types.

[Trauglodyte]

More of a UI problem than anything. Fix that and then 50% of the problem is gone. Of course, you'll have to deal with the other 50% - the morons with the ability to cleanse said DoTs but are too stupid to do it.

[momokan]

just so you guys know, there are 4 debuff types (mental, physical, force, tech) and a specced healer can remove 3 of them, sometimes you simply cannot dispel something.

 

edit: just saw someone explain this 2 posts above me. oops, reading is hard

Edited February 13, 2012 by momokan

[Entropicus]

or even removing the dots from themselves....lol

 

Quiet you! Last thing I need is people noticing they are bleeding to death.

[Grubfist]

I like when I DOT up a sorcerer with a Force DoT and they sit there spamclicking the control point and get interrupted 5 times.

[Pestwulf]

So what type of DOT is it that gets dropped on the ground and does AE?

 

I have no idea what it is, but I have seen people drop this little white doo-hickey on the ground that belches out flame every few seconds to prevent caps. They just drop it on the ground and run off or die and no one can do anything until it goes away.

 

What is that?

[FAvole]

Thats the 31 talent ability in the engineering/saboteur trees of the Sniper/Gunslinger classes.

Pretty much only usefull to prevent capping obejectives in pvp.

[Slackfumasta]

One tick only.

 

That means only the first DoT tick or AOE tick prevents capping.

 

That's what needs to happen.

[Aamp]

All the arguments that state in the vein of "oh well... this class can remove dots... l2play" comments are beyond dumb. If it's a 1v1 and (and I am a class that can't cleanse dots) situation and I have killed you but your stupid dot is still preventing me from capping a point is stupid. The dotter doesn't need much strategy in this case to defend a flag. I should be able to capitalize on the fact that I beat you and thus reap my rewards.

 

On a side note, Alderaan WZ is sort of a failure because I think 3 capture points as well as the number of players allowed are not enough. It doesn't promote tactical, small group battles but one mass zerg vs. another zerg vs. respawns. I hate to draw comparisons with Arathi basin in WoW but AB is just much better. In AB you can have diversionary tactics where you can ostensibly zerg one point but have stealthers or mini battle groups strike another point making AB such a more tactical and skill based BG.

[Cephim]

Earnestly, I think this needs to be changed and that dots do not prevent players from capping a point. This makes VoidStar and Alderaan such a stagnant affair and plays a huge factor in how difficult it is to capture a point. It is stupid how a single player can defend a point forever with this.

 

I think the WZs would be more dynamic and more fun if this was changed.

 

This would make it less dynamic, and is a horrible idea.

[Aamp]

This would make it less dynamic, and is a horrible idea.

 

How will this be less dynamic? Explain yourself and don't simply just post a statement. Do you want 1 person be able to defend against 3 players when he just dots everyone up? That's not strategy there, that's just a broken mechanic. Currently in Alderaan, once the bases have been established, it is very difficult to turn the tide (and more leavers) and I think a large contributor to this is the dot mechanic. If we win a battle at a base and is dotted, it takes upwards to 15 seconds before we can start capping and by then, the defender will be back on the speeder.

 

I rather capture points to shift control between factions constantly due to small tactical battles, which leads to more dimensions and tactics rather than zerg fests in a WZ.

[Pestwulf]

What if you leave dots alone and instead change it to a proximity based capping system?

 

The rate of capping speeds up or slows down based on how many of each side are present in whatever "area" there is? That way the focus is on group warfare instead of who's got the dot.

 

It means zerging from one side to another is not nearly as profitable as scouting and communication. Although in most WZ's i'm in communication is pitiful so this may be a bad idea.

 

Just brainstorming

[deltaminus]

Maybe Bioware should just remove the door entirely, it would make things even easier.

[Varicite]

All the arguments that state in the vein of "oh well... this class can remove dots... l2play" comments are beyond dumb. If it's a 1v1 and (and I am a class that can't cleanse dots) situation and I have killed you but your stupid dot is still preventing me from capping a point is stupid. The dotter doesn't need much strategy in this case to defend a flag. I should be able to capitalize on the fact that I beat you and thus reap my rewards.

 

On a side note, Alderaan WZ is sort of a failure because I think 3 capture points as well as the number of players allowed are not enough. It doesn't promote tactical, small group battles but one mass zerg vs. another zerg vs. respawns. I hate to draw comparisons with Arathi basin in WoW but AB is just much better. In AB you can have diversionary tactics where you can ostensibly zerg one point but have stealthers or mini battle groups strike another point making AB such a more tactical and skill based BG.

 

Your example is "dumb", because you have 7 other teammates and it never had to be a 1v1 situation.

 

Next time you should capitalize on the fact that you are not alone, and that wouldn't happen to you.

[Aamp]

Your example is "dumb", because you have 7 other teammates and it never had to be a 1v1 situation.

 

Next time you should capitalize on the fact that you are not alone, and that wouldn't happen to you.

 

Uh... does that mean every time we want to cap a point you have to send 2 people? That makes it less dynamic doesn't it? Less tactical? yea... ok. Again, you're missing the point.

[CrunchyGremlin]

Maybe Bioware should just remove the door entirely, it would make things even easier.

 

This is the correct answer.

[AnEvilBus]

then operatives will become even more useless in pvp Edited February 15, 2012 by AnEvilBus

[Soshla]

All the arguments that state in the vein of "oh well... this class can remove dots... l2play" comments are beyond dumb. If it's a 1v1 and (and I am a class that can't cleanse dots) situation and I have killed you but your stupid dot is still preventing me from capping a point is stupid. The dotter doesn't need much strategy in this case to defend a flag. I should be able to capitalize on the fact that I beat you and thus reap my rewards.

 

On a side note, Alderaan WZ is sort of a failure because I think 3 capture points as well as the number of players allowed are not enough. It doesn't promote tactical, small group battles but one mass zerg vs. another zerg vs. respawns. I hate to draw comparisons with Arathi basin in WoW but AB is just much better. In AB you can have diversionary tactics where you can ostensibly zerg one point but have stealthers or mini battle groups strike another point making AB such a more tactical and skill based BG.

It doesn't even have to be 1v1. It just has to be the right combination. A Sage, a Gunslinger and a Sentinel are useless against a Sniper spamming a 21s DoT AoE on a node and taking the quick speeder down. That_is_broken.

 

I definitely agree that Civil War needs more strategy. Maybe if the nodes were farther apart it would be better. Right now, even if you respond to a "Fake Out" by sending a bunch of people to one node, they can be back at the main node being attacked in under a minute.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Soshla

[Ashania]

First of all I am pretty sure they are talking about Bleeds. An operative can spam bleed on every single person at a capture point the bleed lasts like 15seconds. An it has no CD. A bleed effect CANNOT be dispeled. So again what they are bringing up is not a L2P issue. It's the fact that the Capture point is right next to the landing point on the side locations so a Operative(FOR EXAMPLE) Can spam dot on up to 5 people at the side base and die. An have enough time to fly back before the DoTs fall off an repeat it.

 

So not really a l2play issue. More of a Move the Speeder landiing location on the side bases back about 5-10yards and problem is solved.

 

I assume you're talking about Corrosive Dart? Corrosive Dart can be dispelled as it is classed as Tech damage. However, Tech damage can only be dispelled by Commandos/Mercenary's and Scoundrels/Operatives.

 

Each healing tree for the 3 classes can spec into adding a heal to their dispel aswell as dispelling an additional effect.

 

Sorcs/Sages can dispel Force and Mental effects by default and also spec into being able to dispel Physical effects.

 

Commandos/Mercenary's/Scoundrels/Operatives can all dispel Tech and Physical, with speccing into being able to dispel Mental.

 

So, Sorcs/Sages are unable to cleanse Tech whilst Commando's etc cannot dispel Force.

 

It's always annoying as a sage to be unable to dispel the operative's snare! Sometimes I feel I'm the only one ever dispelling.

 

So it may seem that an operative can hold off an entire group when the majority of healers are sages who cannot dispel Tech and the Commando's/Scoundrels don't know their dispel exists.

[Kashard]

im a fully specced sage in healing and i cant remove the flame DoT

[Fugitivelama]

I have to agree that the 21 second AoE DoT is definitely not fair to anyone involved. You could have 5-6 people capping a turret against 1 defender and even though they killed the defender within 5-10seconds, his AoE DOT clipped them all and now he has 21seconds to return to the turret and do the same thing again. He only needs to be alive long enough to use a single ability , then he can die knowing it wont be capped. 21 seconds is enough time to roleplay walk back to the turret.

 

Yes there are ways around this but with the current state of class balance you have to have specific classes in your WZ group which means there will be groups that have no way of stopping this. Until every healer has the ability to cure/cleanse all debuffs , even if it requires talents, this needs to be fixed.

 

My suggestion has already been said by others in this thread , Only the first few ticks(3max) should interrupt someone from capping an objective.

[Fugitivelama]

Damage over Time. Usually dealing with poisons, fire or the likes of.

 

Edit: also no. Enough with the nerf threads already. What you are asking is to basically remove from pvp some classes entire spec trees.

 

 

Please people, really, start to think before you post this nonsense.

 

Please take your own advice and think before you post nonsense.

 

No one is asking you to remove your entire spec tree. The OP is implying a solution such as not every single tick interrupts capturing objectives.

 

You still get your entire talent tree and all of the damage you were to of done to a player will still be done however only your first 3 ticks or so would interrupt someone from capping an objective. Every class has an ability that cost no resources and does instant damage so you should have no problem preventing captures while you are alive. You should not be able to hold an entire team from capping an objective for 21seconds after your death.

 

To the people saying Dispell and stop QQing , not every warzone will have a healer that can dispell all DoTs the game applies , if your without the right class this is an instant win tactic for the other team.