Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So you've never, ever been in a group that didn't complete the instance because of infighing or selfish play? Sure, but that happens already in SWTOR too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varteras Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 My own personal experience in WoW tells me a different story than the ones claiming that LFD destroys community. I played on two different servers with my very first toon being rolled during vanilla WoW. Both of them came long before LFD was a feature in that game. Even before LFD, community only existed as essentially three groups of people. Guildmates and former guildmates who kept ties after leaving. Elitists who brushed off those pesky, lesser casuals and constantly competed to see whose genitals were bigger (sadly I use to be a part of that group up until the end of WotLK). Finally, the obnoxious morons in general and trade chat who made a name by being obnoxious morons. There was never this grand sense of community. No matter how you sliced it, it was nothing more than separate cliques on the server. When LFD was brought in what do you think changed? Pretty much nothing. The elitists cried a little because now people were quickly getting gear and being able to raid a lot faster. They didn't corner the market. When LFR came in it was pretty much the nail in the coffin for most of them. The only ones left who had any room to strut were the ones who cleared heroic raids. The number of people who could claim to be leet solely because of their gear dropped dramatically. So the elitist community got quite a bit smaller but it still exists. There was no death of this grand community because for something to die it has to exist first. It never did. As far as I was concerned LFD was one of the best things they ever added to WoW. Some nights I could get guildies together quickly or find groups of people elsewhere. But there were also many slow nights when no one in the guild was on or too busy doing their own thing. Same with the rest of the server. Spamming chats in hopes of finding someone. So when LFD came in it pretty much opened the door for me to run those dungeons at any time and as many times as my little heart desired without having to worry about someone suddenly having to leave or being a d-bag or getting booted myself for some stupid reason ("hey sorry but our guildmate wants to run this so could you please leave?" was oh-so popular). I could be out doing whatever I wanted while waiting for my queue to pop just like the PvPers could with their battlegrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 people that came from wow forget the importance /ignore use to have before the LFG system. if someone was griefing you all you had to do is say in trade who it was and what they were doing and 100 people on the server would /ignore them because they wouldnt want a griefer in their group. this would blackball the player and he would have limited people that would group with him or he would have to switch servers. the power of this "community" thing you kids dont remember having that we relied on in the old everquest days. Try to insult me all you want, but I am old enough that my time is limited and I do not want to waste it with waiting and groups falling apart with no way to replace the missing players. Ignore works in WoW very well since classic, and it sitll does with the LFG tool. Or maybe you are too old to /ignore and /kick that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Well, that's what a friends list or a guild is for. Good luck finding 3 lvl 30s at night on your guild or friends list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditched Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Its a modern MMORPG witchhunt, features that "destroy" the community. Every game and community instantly becomes bad with LFG and damage meter........and that is a fact..........or not...... No its not. It didnt destroy WoW. It just made finding dungeons faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 cherry picking arguments is bad rhetoric, I was generally speaking and do not have much expierence with grouping in SWTOR. Play republic on a dead server in 3 months and try to find a group for a lowbie instance.............good........luck. Why would anyone level a new char on a dead server? just dumb to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Why would anyone level a new char on a dead server? just dumb to begin with. Maybe because his friends or guild are there? Victim blaming is bad mmmkay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Good luck finding 3 lvl 30s at night on your guild or friends list. You mean as easily as I do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That's a bit faulty in your conclusion. The LFR raid is tuned down compared to the regular version, which is why so many people have completed it. Guilds were using it as a training, or to get some easy gear for themselves before doing the "real" version, instead of going to the PTR to practice. The LFR raid is basically an easy mode, and there would probably have been close to the same success rate or even higher if it were not restricted to 25 man pugs, but available to any raid group either 10 or 25 man. Your last line, in and of itself is faulty in that you're making assumption that just as many people would have put PuGs together to run the content as those who queue for half of it and let it go afterwards. I know I probably wouldn't bother PuGGing it at this point, but it's a good, free 250 vp for someone like me. Likewise, you completely ignored the fact that participation is way up across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You mean as easily as I do now? Your experience /= everyone elses This is the same argument that there are no FPS issues because your FPS is great. Bad logic is bad. Some people have small guilds and have a different meaning of what "friend" means. If you are a guy with 3000 facebook "friends" I have no doubt you get into a dungeon easily. However some people are more picky and they shouldnt be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Your last line, in and of itself is faulty in that you're making assumption that just as many people would have put PuGs together to run the content as those who queue for half of it and let it go afterwards. I know I probably wouldn't bother PuGGing it at this point, but it's a good, free 250 vp for someone like me. Likewise, you completely ignored the fact that participation is way up across the board. The reason that as many people didn't clear Firelands as they did Dragon Soul was because of the difficulty. The raid way tuned horribly, with some fights trivial on 10 and murder on 25, and some the other way around. There was no even difficulty on the regular difficulty setting. If there was an easy setting the same difficulty level as the LFR is, without having the LFR available there would still be more people clearing the raid compared to previous tiers where it did not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Your experience /= everyone elses[ This exact statement can be said about your posts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xioix Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 the fact that most big mmos (wow, rift, etc) have a lfg tool must mean that it is needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) If you let people cross server join groups they will ninja 9/10 times as lets face it... your not on their server when are they going to see you again why should they care. Currently we have no vote kick feature either so if your group leader turns out to be a dick your boned. Basically it kills the zones look at wow and I can level a tank from 15-85 without ever leaving ogri and you know what i'll never even have to run to the start of dungeons people don't even know how to get into mara but they still run it like 25+ times. Wow I can think of so many reasons why I hate a cross server lfg tool Please if you don't like waiting heres the things your gonna actually have to socalize abit instead of sitting around hoping you could just be pushing a button to join a group then join a group never say anything and leave I know madness right. Oh thats a bunch of bs. I used LFD in my short time in WOW and it was really rare to run into the ninjas that are supposedly rampant in the LFD system. When the odd one popped up they were immediately kicked. For most it was a no brainer. The exact same arguments were made when Rift implemented cross server and again ninjas were rare. I can count the number of times on two hands that I ran into them in the 7 months I've been playing. Any ninja just goes on ignore and you don't ever have to see them again. This is the EXACT same thing as happens now in this game. Get a ninja? Kick and ignore. The worst thing about PUGS whether formed randomly through chat or randomly through a system is getting bad players. That happens regardless of the system. As for you other hates. Someone can level through FPS right now and never leave the fleet. In fact right now with the way it's set up if you want to do FPS you have to stay in the fleet. That sucks. At least with an LFG system whether server or xserver you can leave the durn place and do other things. One of the reasons I don't do many FPS right now is that I actually hate standing around there twiddling my thumbs waiting for a group. It's a waste of time. Edited February 11, 2012 by Jalliah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 This exact statement can be said about your posts as well. Exactly, which is why we need games and systems that make it fun for a lot of different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 the fact that most big mmos (wow, rift, etc) have a lfg tool must mean that it is needed Most meaning two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If there was an easy setting the same difficulty level as the LFR is, without having the LFR available there would still be more people clearing the raid compared to previous tiers where it did not exist. But there's zero evidence that it would be the same percentage of participation, and the fact remains that Blizzard has stated time and time again that, yes, LFD has brought in a much larger percentage of the playerbase then was previously active in instances. It's particularly enormous in leveling instances. Why is restriction suddenly a good thing again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 the fact that most big mmos (wow, rift, etc) have a lfg tool must mean that it is needed Most big MMOs have macros too, but they are hardly NEEDED in swtor. Wanted maybe, useful possibly, but NEEDED? not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Try to insult me all you want, but I am old enough that my time is limited and I do not want to waste it with waiting and groups falling apart with no way to replace the missing players. Ignore works in WoW very well since classic, and it sitll does with the LFG tool. Or maybe you are too old to /ignore and /kick that guy.it doesnt work in wow now because they can still que and get groups. no repercussions for acting like an idiot. i too work midnight shift and have a wife. if i couldnt manage gameplay without scheduling conflicts i think i would find a new hobby. i found a guild though that usually is active during my play times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Why is restriction suddenly a good thing again? This is the new version of the "NO U" argument. I don't believe that SWTOR needs a cross-server grouping feature yet. That's my opinion on the matter. Edited February 11, 2012 by Kaphik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 But there's zero evidence that it would be the same percentage of participation, and the fact remains that Blizzard has stated time and time again that, yes, LFD has brought in a much larger percentage of the playerbase then was previously active in instances. It's particularly enormous in leveling instances. Why is restriction suddenly a good thing again? I've PERSONALLY never done more instances in over 5 years of players WoW than I did during the last 2-3 years. It is awesome doing old dungeons again that you couldn't do anymore because you didn't geta group together. The more people get to the endgame in this game the harder it is going to be to find a group for new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Maybe because his friends or guild are there? Victim blaming is bad mmmkay. they still dont understand this strange concept of "community". wow really did some damage apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostmensch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 it doesnt work in wow now because they can still que and get groups. no repercussions for acting like an idiot. i too work midnight shift and have a wife. if i couldnt manage gameplay without scheduling conflicts i think i would find a new hobby. i found a guild though that usually is active during my play times. And who says that devs cannot make their own better system? Maybe people that get kicked too often will be banned from using LFG? Maybe people could have cross server friends list? Maybe instead of screaming NO NO NO NO DO NOT WANT people should try to think for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 This is the new version of the "NO U" argument. I don't believe that SWTOR needs a cross-server grouping feature yet. That's my opinion on the matter. Actually, it isn't much of a "NO U." It would seem Bioware wants a higher participation rate -- likely because at level cap it's an important part of the game and will increase retention. You guys are essentially arguing in favor of a niche crowd while Bioware is targeting a considerably larger and more diverse group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 it doesnt work in wow now because they can still que and get groups. no repercussions for acting like an idiot. i too work midnight shift and have a wife. if i couldnt manage gameplay without scheduling conflicts i think i would find a new hobby. i found a guild though that usually is active during my play times. The repercussions are the idiots just get put on way more people's ignore lists and if they're and uber idiot they end up waiting longer for groups because they're shut out of any one person who happens to get put into the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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