Doomsaga Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Its like this: those that say you run into more d-bag dont realise a number of things: A. Alot of them claim they quit WoW after LFD released. hmm how would they know how ofter you ran into a d-bag if they didnt even fully explore the tool and just mostly assumed bcz ppl can be d-bag they will be. I ran into d-bags maybe once or twice a month on lfd on wow. B. noone talkes about lfd anymore on wow forums why ppl thnk they do is beyond me and if ToR community is as good as u think it is than a tool like that shouldnt be a problem right? Ill admit the tool is an enabler of indecent actions but at the same time it gives you the tools needed to rectify the problem. its also true that theres more ninjas with the tool but keep in mind your also running the instance alot more frequently so the occassional ninja isnt gonna matter as much as it does without the tool(i do recall a discussion about ninjas on these forums and the tool isnt even out). If the community its bcz of the community not bcz of the tool. Edited February 12, 2012 by Doomsaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khardune Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Do people honestly want this game on it's back dieing? If lower lvls can not get groups cause everyone is high lvl then this game will chase them off before the get a chance to hit 50. The LFG is needed if this game wants to make it anywhere. To hell with community, the community is already bad to begin with and we don't have a cross-server lfg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorelthesecond Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Its like this: those that say you run into more d-bag dont realise a number of things: A. Alot of them claim they quit WoW after LFD released. hmm how would they know how ofter you ran into a d-bag if they didnt even fully explore the tool and just mostly assumed bcz ppl can be d-bag they will be. I ran into d-bags maybe once or twice a month on lfd on wow. B. noone talkes about lfd anymore on wow forums why ppl thnk they do is beyond me and if ToR community is as good as u think it is than a tool like that shouldnt be a problem right? Ill admit the tool is an enabler of indecent actions but at the same time it gives you the tools needed to rectify the problem. its also true that theres more ninjas with the tool but keep in mind your also running the instance alot more frequently so the occassional ninja isnt gonna matter as much as it does without the tool(i do recall a discussion about ninjas on these forums and the tool isnt even out). If the community its bcz of the community not bcz of the tool. "B. noone talkes about lfd anymore on wow forums why ppl thnk they do is beyond me and if ToR community is as good as u think it is than a tool like that shouldnt be a problem right?" This isnt true people make posts all the time on the wow forums about how much they hate lfg/lfr and how it ruined the game. Even people who like lfg/lfr make posts complaining about ninjas in it or how long q times are. Edited February 12, 2012 by lorelthesecond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gittyup Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Do people honestly want this game on it's back dieing? If lower lvls can not get groups cause everyone is high lvl then this game will chase them off before the get a chance to hit 50. The LFG is needed if this game wants to make it anywhere. To hell with community, the community is already bad to begin with and we don't have a cross-server lfg. Those lower levels will still be lonely when it comes to server only group quests...People use the word needed too often. Merge the servers then your lower levels will be with thoes low level people saying its needed on other servers. Or offer free xfers then merge at some point. If you are spending time looking for a group and it's iyo too much time then most likely you have one of two problems. 1. Your server/faction is low pop or low participation. 2. You are impatient and the tool wouldn't make that any better either, you would still wait depending on play time/role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeragu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Those lower levels will still be lonely when it comes to server only group quests...People use the word needed too often. Merge the servers then your lower levels will be with thoes low level people saying its needed on other servers. Or offer free xfers then merge at some point. If you are spending time looking for a group and it's iyo too much time then most likely you have one of two problems. 1. Your server/faction is low pop or low participation. 2. You are impatient and the tool wouldn't make that any better either, you would still wait depending on play time/role. It's not the wait time that's the concern, it's the inability to do much else than focus on getting a group together. I'd personally like to be able to queue up and then quest, craft or do whatever and wait. I like action. It's inaction that get's me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Those lower levels will still be lonely when it comes to server only group quests...People use the word needed too often. Merge the servers then your lower levels will be with thoes low level people saying its needed on other servers. Or offer free xfers then merge at some point. If you are spending time looking for a group and it's iyo too much time then most likely you have one of two problems. 1. Your server/faction is low pop or low participation. 2. You are impatient and the tool wouldn't make that any better either, you would still wait depending on play time/role. Yeh how dare we not enjoy spending 3-4 hours looking for a group on a high pop server. I know get a guild right? have you got one? Then Why do you care? Community? the community has no where to develop not that I believe it would if it did after playing from EQ to wow, rift I've never seen a server community that some of the counter-argument insists is in every mmo. Community has always been in your guilds and imaginations apparently. And if you genuinely believe they'll merge the servers with all the horrific press involved then you're even more deluded then your post indicates. Edited February 12, 2012 by darkcerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Let us hope that BW uses their own in game metrics to create a tool that benefits the players. BW should be able to see the combined play time off all characters of each class. i.e. how many tanks and healers play on each server in comparison to dps? That should drive the decision on cross server. I suspect cross server is a long way from happening for the simple reason the coding will take a very long time to get right. BW should also be able to tell what percentage of players experience the group content. Are 75% of the players experiencing 90% of the content? If those are the numbers I would think that no group tool is necessary. However if the numbers show 75% of the players are experiencing %15 of the group content--something needs to change. Why create more content the vast majority of your players will never experience? Developers don't like to create great encounters only to have a minority enjoy the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kucerakov Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QFT. Cross-server tools completely destroyed whatever community WoW had left at the time. It encouraged people to act like douchebags, because there was no way for them to obtain a 'bad rep' on any particular server. Not to mention that making friends through groups became nigh-impossible, due to the fact that they'd simply vanish back to their own server once the instance was over, never to be seen again. I will admit though that WoW's community was/is far more toxic than the one I've seen so far in SWTOR, so maybe if this is implemented, it will work out better here. I hope so. You have a very selective memory if you think the lfg tool made people act like douchebags. People were d-bags well before that. I played WoW friggin constantly. LFG tool had no noticeable effect on the way people act one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirUrza Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me. Spamming "LFG BT" on a fresh alt isn't fun. I gave up yesterday after an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirUrza Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You have a very selective memory if you think the lfg tool made people act like douchebags. People were d-bags well before that. I played WoW friggin constantly. LFG tool had no noticeable effect on the way people act one way or another. Indeed. Even when there was just a LFG tool in WoW, people still ninja looted stuff. I'm appalled that people think spamming LFG in general chat is some how communal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You have a very selective memory if you think the lfg tool made people act like douchebags. People were d-bags well before that. I played WoW friggin constantly. LFG tool had no noticeable effect on the way people act one way or another. The problem with the X-server LFD tool is that it allows the D-bags to get away with being D-bags. If you play on a server and are a complete tool to people, they will place you on ignore and eventually you will not be able to get groups. You would either have to quit or improve your attitude and reroll. The X-server lfd bypasses the community self-policing and allows said D-bags to continue to play and have a negative impact on the server communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirUrza Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) The problem with the X-server LFD tool is that it allows the D-bags to get away with being D-bags. If you play on a server and are a complete tool to people, they will place you on ignore and eventually you will not be able to get groups. You would either have to quit or improve your attitude and reroll. The X-server lfd bypasses the community self-policing and allows said D-bags to continue to play and have a negative impact on the server communities. Assuming of course placing someone on ignore works that way. There are plenty of games that putting someone on ignore or leaving bad feedback doesn't actually mean you won't be in groups with them. Ignore in most games is only a chat filter. Edited February 12, 2012 by SirUrza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) You have a very selective memory if you think the lfg tool made people act like douchebags. People were d-bags well before that. I played WoW friggin constantly. LFG tool had no noticeable effect on the way people act one way or another. I think YOU have selective memory. Everyone knows the LFG system destroyed the community. Just like these forums are the vehicle of hate due to their anonimity, so are LFG groups. No consequence equals free reign to behave like a douchebag. With that said, i do agree we should have an LFG system per each realm, at least for now. I think cross server could be done in the future, but it has to be tought out in order to punish abusers and not trivialise the importance of playing through the content (aka its ridiculous to spam every instance several times a day). Edited February 12, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khardune Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Those lower levels will still be lonely when it comes to server only group quests...People use the word needed too often. Merge the servers then your lower levels will be with thoes low level people saying its needed on other servers. Or offer free xfers then merge at some point. If you are spending time looking for a group and it's iyo too much time then most likely you have one of two problems. 1. Your server/faction is low pop or low participation. 2. You are impatient and the tool wouldn't make that any better either, you would still wait depending on play time/role. yeah but while i'm waiting I can be doing better things with my time than spamming chat and people shouldn't have to reroll to the highest populated server to get a group, that's just plain retarded. At least with the cross-server lfg tool lower lvls can experience the content rather than waiting it out till 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Reading this forum you'd think every run using the lfg tool in wow and rift was horrific. I played both wow from it's first year and rift a week from it's release and either I'm the luckiest person here or there's even more hyperbole from the counter-argument then usual. My anecdotal evidence not good enough for you? Better admit yours is worthless first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Assuming of course placing someone on ignore works that way. There are plenty of games that putting someone on ignore or leaving bad feedback doesn't actually mean you won't be in groups with them. Ignore in most games is only a chat filter. Yes, but if somehow I end up in a group with someone I would prefer not to play with, I would simply ask the group if they would rather I leave or remove him from the group. Most times people will keep the more friendly and polite player. This would further alienate the unpleasant players from the community, as long as it remains server dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 For all of you concerned about the "community," loosely based on the outdated technology of a server: Why is the "community" even a comparable thing to the ability of people to even have the option to attempt group based content? I would think gamers would value being able to see every part of the game, exemplified by the disdain for day 1 dlc that comes on the disc, over basically anything else. Are you really that selfish that you can't even understand that there are people who have trouble(for whatever reason it is, I've yet to see a "counter-argument" to this that isn't "I don't like people playing the game a different way than I do". Because it doesn't matter why people are having trouble doing the content, the problem is that they aren't doing the content.) and would like to ACTUALLY PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME IN THEIR OWN WAY? Why should parts of the game only be allowed to those who have "friends and guildies?" (A necessary distinction is drawn here between hard modes and regular modes, IMO even doing the encounters on "easy" mode is still doing it. No reason not to offer a harder version that requires more coordination and thus more rewards.) Why is that a good model for a broad audience of players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBullk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 PPL talking community left and right you are all idiots you want to play a social game? go play farmville on facebook I want fast queues and don't want to socialize in a virtual world with mouthbreathers that lives on his mom's basement! If I want to socialize I will go out of the house and actually in the flesh talk to ppl This is a godamn game it needs to provide me with fast and nice entertaning value or I will take my money else where and fast! And this is coming from someone who has done all the content this game has to offer because I have a guild of friends and we are in suficient numbers to actually do it... But unlike You "social" ppl I understand that some ppl don't have this luxuary and that some ppl actualy don't have the time to wait in the fleet for 1/2/3 hours for a group... So a cross-server LFD tool is a great system to make these ppl lives just a bit more fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocanis Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) PPL talking community left and right you are all idiots you want to play a social game? go play farmville on facebook I want fast queues and don't want to socialize in a virtual world with mouthbreathers that lives on his mom's basement! If I want to socialize I will go out of the house and actually in the flesh talk to ppl This is a godamn game it needs to provide me with fast and nice entertaning value or I will take my money else where and fast! And this is coming from someone who has done all the content this game has to offer because I have a guild of friends and we are in suficient numbers to actually do it... But unlike You "social" ppl I understand that some ppl don't have this luxuary and that some ppl actualy don't have the time to wait in the fleet for 1/2/3 hours for a group... So a cross-server LFD tool is a great system to make these ppl lives just a bit more fun In other words, "It's all about me . The rest of you are merely player-NPCs put here for my benefit. Know your place!" [edit] You couldn't have made the anti-cross-server-LFG tool argument any easier. Edited February 12, 2012 by astrocanis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivetya Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me. Cross realm LFD never destroyed community in the games its featured in. I won't go out on much of limb to know your claiming it is what made WOW less community oriented. Actually what did that was the developers having two expansions in a row (BC/Wrath) that separated people mostly on level. As in, they took away the home cities people enjoyed and gave them new ones with such enticements as city portals to make sure people went. Star Wars is certainly not going to be destroyed by crLFD. Hell, on my full/heavy server I usually see gaps of five to ten minutes in chat even in populated area other than fleet. On fleet you see people wanting to play the content but unable to do so because of no LFD or crLFD tools. This is most anti-social MMO I have ever joined... its designed against interaction - let them fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gittyup Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yeh how dare we not enjoy spending 3-4 hours looking for a group on a high pop server. I know get a guild right? have you got one? Then Why do you care? Community? the community has no where to develop not that I believe it would if it did after playing from EQ to wow, rift I've never seen a server community that some of the counter-argument insists is in every mmo. Community has always been in your guilds and imaginations apparently. And if you genuinely believe they'll merge the servers with all the horrific press involved then you're even more deluded then your post indicates. No I am not in a guild, I played my first 3 characters in wow guildless and all of rift/aion guildess as well. I usually don't join a guild when I play unless I find a constant group of the same people playing. I change characters/factions/servers to find whats the best fit so joining a guild seemed to me like I would be kind of abandoning them if I did those things so I usually don't join one. I genuinely believe that merging the servers is a smarter option not only in the short but the long. I don't really care about the forums nor do I fear what will/would come from them if servers are merged, do you? If you have never seen a community in an online game then I feel greatly sorry for you, that really isnt my arguement against cross server though. It's not the wait time that's the concern, it's the inability to do much else than focus on getting a group together. I'd personally like to be able to queue up and then quest, craft or do whatever and wait. I like action. It's inaction that get's me crazy. yeah but while i'm waiting I can be doing better things with my time than spamming chat and people shouldn't have to reroll to the highest populated server to get a group, that's just plain retarded. At least with the cross-server lfg tool lower lvls can experience the content rather than waiting it out till 50. Both points are completely correct, you shouldn't have to reroll, not should you have to stand in one zone spamming chat. The tool doesn't need to be cross server though to fix you haveing to stand around waiting. Aion has a tool in it that is not cross server and it works, but could easily be honed even farth to be of greater use in TOR. Reading this forum you'd think every run using the lfg tool in wow and rift was horrific. I played both wow from it's first year and rift a week from it's release and either I'm the luckiest person here or there's even more hyperbole from the counter-argument then usual. My anecdotal evidence not good enough for you? Better admit yours is worthless first. I read most of this thread at least, but not the whole forum and I personally didn't get the impression that every lfg in rift/wow was horrific. From personally experience I can say that I have had 3 different kinds of runs in wow/rift lfg. Great, Terrible, and ones that were just run of the mill neither of the previous. I had those same things in those games prior to the tools as well. But again, not exactly the argurment I have against the tool. My arguement is simply that it does not fix the actual problem. Its a coverup of that problem that will only lead to more problems down the road or the need for further expansion of the system to fill the holes that form. Look at wows progression.(might not be perfect, but you can get the idea) Server only Cross battlegroup pvp Cross server dungeon Region wide pvp Cross server chat Cross sever grouping for dungeons Cross server grouping for specific raids Cross server grouping for all raids (somewhere in there you got realid grouping for dungeons, then raids. Also got queues for your own server specic zones toward the end of the last xpack. All that over the course of years and expansions and all those steps to make the servers FEEL more alive. It turned it into a lobby experience where everyone is standing around waiting for their number to pop. All those steps could have been skipped with server merges easier access to xfers. So do you want them to just merge, attempt to fix the actual problem with a real solution that can suit all those needs, or start on the progression list above? I don't care about the bad press that comes froms server merges or anything else a game maker does for that matter, neither should you if you enjoy the game or gaming in general for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 In other words, "It's all about me . The rest of you are merely player-NPCs put here for my benefit. Know your place!" [edit] You couldn't have made the anti-cross-server-LFG tool argument any easier. I feel the same way with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyACT Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me. Don't like it - then don't use it. Community is what it is in any game - the tools you can use don't affect the tools who may use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allmightyprom Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes please. GIVE US CROSS SERVER QUEUES FOR PVP!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 In other words, "It's all about me . The rest of you are merely player-NPCs put here for my benefit. Know your place!" [edit] You couldn't have made the anti-cross-server-LFG tool argument any easier. The irony and hypocrisy of your post caused me physical pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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