iceperson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 looks like some posts were removed. hopefully a forum ban was handed out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSoliloquy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 +1 to Arena. Ranked warzones coming out in 1.2 is a good step forward but as a hardcore PvPer, it will only satiate my PvP side for a little while. There NEEDS to be more variety in competitive PvP than ranked warzones, appealing to those who only wish to play with a close group of friends and who like challenging PvP, since a 2v2 or 3v3 is much less forgiving on mistakes than an 8v8. In my server, Iron Citadel, we have already created our own little "arena" or team tournaments. These were the highlight of mostly all of the PvPers in the server, and even people from other servers envied us for it. Sadly, however, it's been cut short due to the organizer of these events becoming bored with the game. But it just goes to show how the PvP community wants competitive PvP. Thread links: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=215840 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=226085 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=265035 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=272812 New one trying to be started : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=297413 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entrerix Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes cause I we all know from WoW the arean is were the real pvP is. BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. WoW excusse me for a sec. BWBWBWBAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHAHHAA. Ok so anyway now that I have peed myself. Arean unless its a balanced system will just be yet another cake walk for no life PvPers on PvE servers and the rest of us get to be fodder for them yea super fun. I love being a starting team trying to understand the system and being repeated queued against Pro teams with high rating. Yea its so much fun losing to pros making their score better and ours worse even though we had 0 chance of winning. Great Idea. If you are bad in arena then you deserve worse rating. If you play on a rating that is above your average skill level then by all means you should lose. Do you expect to be a top player with no skill and no experience? How did you even post this comment? I would be ashamed as soon as i started typing. Arena IS by a large margin the pinnacle of PVP. I will say this again like i said many times before and i will say it again, people who are against arena are the ones who are extremely bad at it. And the post above is exactly the proof needed. People who play arena on higher rating DESERVE better gear than someone who is botting warzones. Everyone saying that it's comp based. Ok, do you want to play 3 sentinels/marauders and if you dont win then arena sucks and its comp based? There was not even 1 single good argument AGAINST arena in the last 13 pages. "Look what it did to wow" people say. Ok let's see. WoW for is an e-sport where people play ARENA and win money. WoW is the most played MMO-game of all time (if not the most played game). Not enough? WoW has existed with a fully functioning arena close to 6 years. The only problem it faced was MMR bugs etc but that has nothing to do with class imbalance. People who are skilled always got rank 1. Look at Hydra. RMP was never an extremely OP setup but yet somehow Hydra and his teammates managed to get rank 1 every time. How can you explain that? YOU KNOW NOTHING. Your petty presumptions about arena are highly invalid and without any merit whatsoever. As stated above, those who don't enjoy arena are most usually the ones who are bad at it. No one has yet answered any of my replies on this post, why? As it seems to me people just don't have a strong valid argument to go against my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I want a solo queue only ranking system so i can compare myself to other solo queue only players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They need to fix cheating first IMO. (Yeah. that's a tall order) Oh, and 2v2 arenas pls. edit: I mean still have 3v3 and 5 (or 4) v5 Yes, they need to crack down on cheating, and they are. Yes, they need to implement competitive PvP. NO, it does not need to be 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5 ARENA based. You can have competitive PvP without obsoleting and negating all other forms of PvP. You can have competitive PvP without implementing a system that forces you to balance your game around that system. Ranked Warzones are the way to do this. We don't need arena, if you feel that you do, there is already another game providing it, go back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 2v2 is more about mixing and matching fotm than player skill. You judge a player based on how they adapt to a wide variety of situations. MMOs do not require a whole lot of skill to 'do the right thing', the skill is in knowing what that right thing is on the spot in every situation. The more diverse and varied the potential situations you can find yourself in are, the more skill you must have to be overall successful. If you can write a strategy for it, its not complex enough to require skill in an mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If you are bad in arena then you deserve worse rating. If you play on a rating that is above your average skill level then by all means you should lose. Do you expect to be a top player with no skill and no experience? How did you even post this comment? I would be ashamed as soon as i started typing. Arena IS by a large margin the pinnacle of PVP. I will say this again like i said many times before and i will say it again, people who are against arena are the ones who are extremely bad at it. And the post above is exactly the proof needed. People who play arena on higher rating DESERVE better gear than someone who is botting warzones. Everyone saying that it's comp based. Ok, do you want to play 3 sentinels/marauders and if you dont win then arena sucks and its comp based? There was not even 1 single good argument AGAINST arena in the last 13 pages. "Look what it did to wow" people say. Ok let's see. WoW for is an e-sport where people play ARENA and win money. WoW is the most played MMO-game of all time (if not the most played game). Not enough? WoW has existed with a fully functioning arena close to 6 years. The only problem it faced was MMR bugs etc but that has nothing to do with class imbalance. People who are skilled always got rank 1. Look at Hydra. RMP was never an extremely OP setup but yet somehow Hydra and his teammates managed to get rank 1 every time. How can you explain that? YOU KNOW NOTHING. Your petty presumptions about arena are highly invalid and without any merit whatsoever. As stated above, those who don't enjoy arena are most usually the ones who are bad at it. No one has yet answered any of my replies on this post, why? As it seems to me people just don't have a strong valid argument to go against my own. MLG dropped wow as an esport (probably because it's really "who has the best comp" and has nothing to do with who has the most skill.) Bliz holding their own competitions doesn't make it an esport any more than BW creating a Huttball tourney would make swtor an esport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWB-NL Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arena IS by a large margin the pinnacle of PVP. I will say this again like i said many times before and i will say it again, people who are against arena are the ones who are extremely bad at it. And the post above is exactly the proof needed. People who play arena on higher rating DESERVE better gear than someone who is botting warzones. Everyone saying that it's comp based. Ok, do you want to play 3 sentinels/marauders and if you dont win then arena sucks and its comp based? There was not even 1 single good argument AGAINST arena in the last 13 pages. Arena is but a glorified team deathmatch. Quite honestly, I feel it requires less skill than a properly balanced warzone map being played by two competitive teams. Arena is merely about killing the other group, whereas warzones actually require more teamwork and tactical ability to actually achieve the objectives on the map while at the same time killing people. Am I against you being able to indulge in your own preferred style of PvP? Nah, I don't mind if they implement some sort of PvP which allows you to have fun. However, I am strongly against any sort of arbitrarily placing it above other forms of PvP and as a result having it become the driving force behind any balancing competition. Let's not pretend that there is any other reason for Arena to be considered the pinnacle of PvP in WoW but for Blizzard making it so, and not exactly to the preference of every player, to say the least. It's the most simplistic and least interesting form of PvP there is, as far as I am concerned. As such I am far more interested in a competitive system such as ranked warzones combined with map tweaking and fixes where needed, rather than some glorified deathmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waagabond Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arena was never a measure of skill.. it was a measure of who could exploit the current dream-team combos and burn every CD you had int he first 30 seconds. And they're introducing rated warzones..... So your argument=invalid. This. I played arena in wow for 8 seasons. Its ALL about class composition, then gear then skills, in that order. We dont need arena in this game, give us rated warzones instead, which is happening. In Arena teams we would see Double sorc, triple sorc or 5 sorcs to be the 80 of the top 100 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This. I played arena in wow for 8 seasons. Its ALL about class composition, then gear then skills, in that order. We dont need arena in this game, give us rated warzones instead, which is happening. In Arena teams we would see Double sorc, triple sorc or 5 sorcs to be the 80 of the top 100 teams. I imagine it would be some combination of merc healers (pure or hybrid), pvp tanks, and marauder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arenas are horrible for game balance and reward broken classes and combinations. no *********** thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This. I played arena in wow for 8 seasons. Its ALL about class composition, then gear then skills, in that order. We dont need arena in this game, give us rated warzones instead, which is happening. In Arena teams we would see Double sorc, triple sorc or 5 sorcs to be the 80 of the top 100 teams. This. I can't even imagine a Sniper or Gunslinger would even have an easy time finding a spot on an arena team. You would be virtually excluded entirely from participating in competitive PvP depending upon what AC you were using until some extreme balance changes hit. (There we go, already talking about balancing the game around arena just to fit classes into it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entrerix Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arena is but a glorified team deathmatch. Quite honestly, I feel it requires less skill than a properly balanced warzone map being played by two competitive teams. Arena is merely about killing the other group, whereas warzones actually require more teamwork and tactical ability to actually achieve the objectives on the map while at the same time killing people. Yes it is a deathmatch. But if it requires less skill. LOOOOOL. They have rated battlegrounds in WoW, what to the top teams consist of? Top ARENA players. Why? Because those who are good in arena are the best PVPers. And the fact that you think that every class is needed in rated warzones is also hilarious. There is practically no need for dps in warzones. Would it be better if 5 DPS defended a turret in alderaan or 2 tanks and 3 healers? WHY would someone ever want a DPS in huttball when you can just tank through the whole map or have a bunch of sorc/sages grip you out of reach. Knockdown the opposition into the pit and voila u just scored in huttball. Do you think a competitive team consisting of most top players with voice communication is gonna let you plant a bomb? Or ninja cap a base? Rated warzones should be implemented for those who enjoy warzones, and they SHOULD receive better gear and titles than people who are playing normal warzones. BUT you should also have an alternative for that. And the only PVP that even remotely promotes individual skill is in fact a so called 3v3 deathmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes it is a deathmatch. But if it requires less skill. LOOOOOL. They have rated battlegrounds in WoW, what to the top teams consist of? Top ARENA players. Why? Because those who are good in arena are the best PVPers. And the fact that you think that every class is needed in rated warzones is also hilarious. There is practically no need for dps in warzones. Would it be better if 5 DPS defended a turret in alderaan or 2 tanks and 3 healers? WHY would someone ever want a DPS in huttball when you can just tank through the whole map or have a bunch of sorc/sages grip you out of reach. Knockdown the opposition into the pit and voila u just scored in huttball. Do you think a competitive team consisting of most top players with voice communication is gonna let you plant a bomb? Or ninja cap a base? Rated warzones should be implemented for those who enjoy warzones, and they SHOULD receive better gear and titles than people who are playing normal warzones. BUT you should also have an alternative for that. And the only PVP that even remotely promotes individual skill is in fact a so called 3v3 deathmatch. the reason the top arena players and the top rated bg players looks the same is because the venn diagram of people who arena and people who do rated bgs looks like this http://www.steeldolphin.com/htmltuts/swoosh/step3_circle.gif yes, people who want to pvp are forced to arena. no one is disputing that. doesn't change the fact that only 2.5% of the 120 possible comps make up over 50% of all arena teams over 2k. how to win in arena: step 1) find the right comp step 2) roll people who didn't do step one step 3) strut like your mad skills are what got you where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arenas are a terrible idea. I'm getting pretty tired of playing WoW in space. Can we do stuff that's not ripped straight out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entrerix Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) the reason the top arena players and the top rated bg players looks the same is because the venn diagram of people who arena and people who do rated bgs looks like this http://www.steeldolphin.com/htmltuts/swoosh/step3_circle.gif yes, people who want to pvp are forced to arena. no one is disputing that. doesn't change the fact that only 2.5% of the 120 possible comps make up over 50% of all arena teams over 2k. how to win in arena: step 1) find the right comp step 2) roll people who didn't do step one step 3) strut like your mad skills are what got you where you are. Your 2.5% of all comps doesn't mean anything. there are countless possibilities, you have 10 classes, who would play dk,dk,dk in 3s? or druid,druid,druid. There is a comp for EVERY class though. And that is really not a bad thing, why should you have the same chances as 3 dks vs an RMP, which is a comp with great synergy, but does that in turn mean that mages, priests and rogues can ONLY play RMP? There are several fully functional setups for every one of those classes other than rmp that are just as good and even better. I played a rogue and i prefer RLS over RMP, I somehow wasnt forced to play RMP even though there are more RMPs above 2.4k than RLS, and i did a lot better than most of the RMPs. And it's exactly like that for every class. Same goes for PVE, you need a setup with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS (usually) for your ops. OMG THEY ARE NOT USING ALL POSSIBLE COMPOSITIONS, WHY NOT PLAY 8 SENTINELS/MARAUDERS, PVE IS SO BROKEN. So in conclusion, your point is moot. Edited February 21, 2012 by Entrerix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Your 2.5% of all comps doesn't mean anything. there are countless possibilities, you have 10 classes, who would play dk,dk,dk in 3s? or druid,druid,druid. There is a comp for EVERY class though. And that is really not a bad thing, why should you have the same chances as 3 dks vs an RMP, which is a comp with great synergy, but does that in turn mean that mages, priests and rogues can ONLY play RMP? There are several fully functional setups for every one of those classes other than rmp that are just as good and even better. I played a rogue and i prefer RLS over RMP, I somehow wasnt forced to play RMP even though there are more RMPs above 2.4k than RLS, and i did a lot better than most of the RMPs. And it's exactly like that for every class. Same goes for PVE, you need a setup with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS (usually) for your ops. OMG THEY ARE NOT USING ALL POSSIBLE COMPOSITIONS, WHY NOT PLAY 8 SENTINELS/MARAUDERS, PVE IS SO BROKEN. So in conclusion, your point is moot. there are 120 possible comps without repeating a class. 2.5% (3) of them make up over half the teams over 2k. if you allowed classes to be used more than 1 time in a comp the number goes to 220 and the number drops 1.36%! seriously, are you that bad at math? bonus: there are 4,960 possible comps if you consider all the possible spec combinations (with no spec repeating on a single team.) of the 52% of teams over 2k mentioned above almost all of them use identical specs (within a few talents), so 0.0006% of the possible team make ups account for more than half of the teams over 2k rating. skill my @#$ add: as you go up in rating the comp>skill in arena becomes even more apparent http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?r=all&bg=all&br=3&mr=2400&mt=any&mg=20 57% of teams over 2400 are made up of 2 comps Edited February 22, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfAttack Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 If they had arena it would only help showcase how laughably unbalanced classes are in this game. Sorc/BH teams oh the madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Of course you are right, because famous WoW players like Neilyo, Snutz, *********** HYDRA, achieved their fame and world renown by playing a dreamteam comp and burning through all cds in 30 sec? A skilled RLS for example would win vs a faceroll TSG/Kittycleave almost every time. The problem with WoW arena is that it takes perfect coordination and flawless execution to achieve victory as a regular comp whereas a "dreamteam" can afford several mistakes. Also you cant hope to know what arena would be like in SWTOR. My thread was about cempetetive PVP, arena was just a suggestion, although it's what im hoping for. Please do not turn this into a WoW-arena discussion. I've never heard of any of those players and I'm a seven year WoW vet. The only way I see Arenas as being plausible is if they opened up the Arena gear to regular PvP commendation vendors so you don't have to do Arenas in order to gear up (or just made it the same damn gear). That was one of the most idiotic things ever about Blizzard's arena system "Want to be competitive in PvP? Well then ARENA OR DIE!". Yea, no fun at all. Edited February 22, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattotwo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No thanks keep arenas in wow. It would only be Sorc teams up there anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelo_Denwar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's been 2 months everyone. I bet the team over at Bioware reads this stuff and goes "THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME" and then reality sets in and they have budget, prioritize, program, test and implement. I hope they do add something like this because it would be awesome for competitive pvper's, but the fact of the matter is things like this take time, so give it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Arena was never a measure of skill.. it was a measure of who could exploit the current dream-team combos and burn every CD you had int he first 30 seconds. And they're introducing rated warzones..... So your argument=invalid. There were gladiators of every class every season, no it wasn't perfectly balanced but it wasn't just about playing overpowered comps either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 There is a comp for EVERY class though ... I played a rogue and ... LOL. Right, and the reason you did that -- despite hunters, enhance shaman, and Boomkins being oh-so-viable -- is really because you enjoyed the play style, right? C'mon, kid, who do you think you're fooling with this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagalcok Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would love arena in this game...could care less if its balanced or not hell im gonna end up makeing 1 of each class anyway ill just use whats the most fun.. dont care if it has special gear the normal pvp stuff is fine by me... if your gonna make rated warzones why the hell not throw arena in... big difference between 8v8 and 3v3? what you gotta keep track of wins/loss's big deal.... i play with a small group of people that iv known for years (star wars galaxy then wow) we have always screwed around in arena...we have sucked and owned.... i mean why not would it be that horrible to have something else to do...i dont care how many times you beat the hardest raid there is nothing like going 3v3 and seeing what happens Put me down for what this person said. I just want to have fun. I think the question for bioware is, once current issues are smoothed out, can they implement some form of arena style pvp without alienating a huge portion of the playerbase? If they can, it is worth it because arena is downright fun, and a ton of people are going to love it. It just can't give any useful rewards, like the best gear. I do think arena could completely kill the potential for open world pvp in this game. Personally, I would prefer arena. But hey, if more people are interested in open world pvp than arena, then arena might be a bad idea. The entire balance complaint seems silly to me. If arena highlights imbalances in 2v2 or 3v3 arrangements and that upsets you, don't fight in those numbers and go back to what you were doing before. What you should tell bioware is, don't homogenize the classes for the sake of balance in every configuration of fighting, but it doesn't make sense to disallow players from fighting in those configurations to mask an already present imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptik Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Arena is fine as long as you can get the same stuff via warzone. Forcing people to arena like in wow is always a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts