People need to realize....

[swordandstone]

Oh hey they have a PTR.

 

Oh wait you have to level 1-50 and watch the 200hour movie again to test the end game...

 

Yeah No Thanks

 

Then skip the cutscenes.

[Matte_Black]

If you release something that is a direct competitor to an existing product and expect to sell it for the same price you usually need to uphold at least the same standard. If I wanted to create a new word processor and directly compete with Microsoft Word or even free software like Open Office I would need it to include a minimum of basic features people expect a word processor released in 2012 has.

 

Would you buy my word processor if I told you it’s a AAA fully featured word processor. Then after you buy it you notice there is no spell check, you can’t change text colour, can’t make lists or add picutes and there is 1 second lag after you press key to text appearing on screen.

 

But of course I assure you all these features will be implemented in a later patch.

 

Another satisfied customer!

 

I don't think their intention is direct competiiton. They pretty clearly seem to be trying to deliver a different type of experience. Taken as a whole, they seem to aiming at the casual, story-oriented player over your hard-core optimizer.

 

WoW already exists and does what it does very well. Why try to beat it at it's own game. When you can draw from those disatisfied with what it has become (including it's "missing" features) and those who are looking for a different type of game?

 

I know their general philosphy of prioritizing story and character development over optimization and leaving the math more behind the curtain was a drawing point to me and alot of players who haven't been playing MMOs recently.

[wifeaggro]

I doubt many people outside of BW/EA know the financial breakdowns but typically speaking when a budget is created for a project, in my experience, we don't include "licensing" within the scope of "development" costs. That licensing is cost is actualized outside of the cost to build.

 

So is the 300M the total budget including everything? Is it the cost to build? Regardless of semantics here the fact remains that this title was NOT ready for release and it would appear after the first 2 months that it's not managed well.

 

Some of this is just my opinion but when you look at simple things like - security to prevent hacking/cheating, very little Q&A for patches and fixes to patches (repeatedly), poorly executed PTR, the heaping numbers of bugs... This just begin to really add up.

 

Hey, lots of people don't care about those things and fine to them. However, there are 300k+ people who did. Does that mean the game is dead? Nope. Does it mean that BW needs to get their act in gear? Yeah, pretty much.

 

Ya they actually released what the break down was for Subs at least. BW 33% LA 33% EA 33%. !00% of game sales went to EA which they already recovered the investment money plus profit.

[Sprytxx]

So? That does not mean this game NEEDS to have it or it will fail.

 

All of this NEED talk is just ridiculous. I did not realize I was not able to play the game without these features.

 

Games can do things differently you know, and even have different features. Even if they are in the same genre.

 

Who said it NEEDS anything? Who said it will fail? They could have released the game with 20 levels and almost no pve and still be considered successfull. Guild Wars 1 did it.

 

All I am saying is if they miss features some people want they will find another game. That is not some kind of threat in any way. It is a fact. BW know this, why can't you accept this?

 

All I am saying is the best way to keep players is to make them happy. The more features they have the more people are happy. That's all there is to it.

[Irishbrewed]

Then skip the cutscenes.

 

Lol, no.

 

You give ppl premade 50 s for you test server, you don't make them level a toon. It's a TEST SERVER to help them out. It's not 2000 anymore. All serious mmo's give their testers a max level toon and even allow them to transfer your character to the test server to test the new game content....

 

Real simple

Edited February 10, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Impulsev]

TOR was just released. Of course it's not going to have the polish that WoW has, WoW was crap at launch but it got better over time after hundreds of updates and new expansions.

 

New MMOs never stand a chance because people are always like "Oh, well WoW had this and this game doesn't, blah blah blah." Yes, TOR may feel a bit rushed but developing and launching an MMO is always a gamble when there's a bigger competitor that has had time to hone their craft and player base. If you thought TOR was going to launch flawlessly, than you are a fool.

 

Though I doubt this has anything to do with it but this is Bioware's first time delving into the world of MMORPGs and I'm impressed but there is room for improvement like always, but then again most people that are down talking the game have obviously never had any patience or expected 10 million players in thriving servers all the time without any flaws.

 

I see where you're coming from, but to take the flip side.. As broken as WoW was in '04 (in hindsight), it still managed to completely blow its exisiting competitors out of the water. I believe EQ was released 5 yrs prior to WoW and it really didn't stand a chance. WoW was really on another level, and it was pretty hard to compare it with the existing crop of MMOs

 

Fast forward to SWTOR and I don't think I could say the same. The fact that people are EVEN COMPARING the two is testament to that.

[Tiam]

TOR was just released. Of course it's not going to have the polish that WoW has, WoW was crap at launch but it got better over time after hundreds of updates and new expansions.

 

New MMOs never stand a chance because people are always like "Oh, well WoW had this and this game doesn't, blah blah blah." Yes, TOR may feel a bit rushed but developing and launching an MMO is always a gamble when there's a bigger competitor that has had time to hone their craft and player base. If you thought TOR was going to launch flawlessly, than you are a fool.

 

Though I doubt this has anything to do with it but this is Bioware's first time delving into the world of MMORPGs and I'm impressed but there is room for improvement like always, but then again most people that are down talking the game have obviously never had any patience or expected 10 million players in thriving servers all the time without any flaws.

 

There's no excuse. This is 2012, and after all the time they spent saying they were "polishing" stuff and how they totally ignored beta testers that brought up the concerns that people now have, there's no excuse.

[Frostvein]

Lemme guess... You are the kind of person that see's a great new building project announced. You show up a couple days later and wonder why it's not as great as what was promised. Then you wait, they lay the foundation and you walk into the middle of it and get angry because this was clearly not what was promised.

 

The foundation is layed. You still have to wait for the rest of the game to be built up. Nothing just shows up fully completed. Babies are not born 30 years old, in thier prime with a house a family and a great career. It either grows to fulfill expectations, or fails in the end.

 

If you need that kind of instant gratification.. than "This is not the reality that you were looking for".

 

Terrible analogy coupled with an insult.

[Nighthawked]

There's no excuse. This is 2012, and after all the time they spent saying they were "polishing" stuff and how they totally ignored beta testers that brought up the concerns that people now have, there's no excuse.

 

Who says they ignored beta testers? You know the developers cannot just read the forums and say "I will fix that right now!". They have to take the requests to their superiors and they tell them: "We will add that change to a patch several weeks from now, we are swamped with changes that the next patches need."

[Blotter]

People already understand this, but they are playing a game today and want a fun, polished game for the amount of money they are spending.

 

Whew. Glad you cleared that up, cuz I'm having a blast playing it, so it appears they nailed it. Does it have some issues? Yep. Will they get adderssed? Yep. Is it absolutely unadulteratedly childish to be throwing a hissy fit pantwetting tantrum over it when the game has only been out for a month and because such-and-such tinfoil hat rationalization leads you to the conclusion of DOOOM!!!! DDDOOOOOOOOOM!!!! DOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!????? Yep.

[Irishbrewed]

I see where you're coming from, but to take the flip side.. As broken as WoW was in '04 (in hindsight), it still managed to completely blow its exisiting competitors out of the water. I believe EQ was released 5 yrs prior to WoW and it really didn't stand a chance. WoW was really on another level, and it was pretty hard to compare it with the existing crop of MMOs

 

Fast forward to SWTOR and I don't think I could say the same. The fact that people are EVEN COMPARING the two is testament to that.

 

Well said sir. You don't come into a market place with a inferior product and say JUST BE PATIENT it will be better in the future and expect any serious amount of consumers.... Come on now, either compete with the giant or fail...

[Sprytxx]

I don't think their intention is direct competiiton. They pretty clearly seem to be trying to deliver a different type of experience. Taken as a whole, they seem to aiming at the casual, story-oriented player over your hard-core optimizer.

 

WoW already exists and does what it does very well. Why try to beat it at it's own game. When you can draw from those disatisfied with what it has become (including it's "missing" features) and those who are looking for a different type of game?

 

I know their general philosphy of prioritizing story and character development over optimization and leaving the math more behind the curtain was a drawing point to me and alot of players who haven't been playing MMOs recently.

 

Well when EA/BW was looking for backing from investors I bet they used WoW as reference telling them "look at all that money, we could get a piece of that". Not saying it has to be exactly like WoW. But some features WoW and many, if not most mmorpg has come to become "standard" for the genre. If you are not planning of making that kind of game then don't call it a mmorpg as people will then compare it with other mmorpg. Blizzard could have called Diablo 3 a mmorpg. But then I bet people would compalin about that too, as they would compare it to WoW and it isn't really much like WoW even though it has many charictaristics of a mmorpg.

[Blackardin]

TOR was just released. Of course it's not going to have the polish that WoW has, WoW was crap at launch but it got better over time after hundreds of updates and new expansions.

 

That seems to be the entirety of the issue with these negative posts, people not thinking.

 

Most that I've read have no concept of what an MMORPG is, or the ongoing nature of the game. They come expecting "Call of Duty", then proceed to attack the game because they chose the wrong genre of game to play.

[purrcatnip]

Who says they ignored beta testers? You know the developers cannot just read the forums and say "I will fix that right now!". They have to take the requests to their superiors and they tell them: "We will add that change to a patch several weeks from now, we are swamped with changes that the next patches need."

 

As a beta tester, they did ignore us. We asked to test end game content repeatedly, but were never allowed to. Very common wipes prevented a group of players form reaching 50, there was no organization around testing operations or end game systems. Once we received level 40 toons for 2-3 days to test 'end game' (cause level 40 is end game?).

 

The issues in this game are all present but become glaring at level 50. No game should be released that does not test their end game extensively; that is what is going to keep your customer base, not a nice leveling system.

[Blackardin]

Well said sir. You don't come into a market place with a inferior product and say JUST BE PATIENT it will be better in the future and expect any serious amount of consumers.... Come on now, either compete with the giant or fail...

 

This is not the case at all. You are confusing standards of the genre with "inferior". To attempt to launch a completed MMORPG, and both declare and end its production as a "finished product" would be suicide. They would not even gain investors to begin with.

 

You are, as has been done so often on these boards, confusing genres. Looking at one and judging it by another. In short, you are judging an entire baseball franchise based on the first inning of the first game.

[Fentz]

What are these missing features?

 

As to the bugs, I agree that there are some and the problem really isn't the bugs or the mishaps that happen when they patch the game, it's the fact that unlike Blizzard they don't do hotfixes and I think they should.

 

not being able to disable the snapping camera.

 

big, missing, feature

[Blackardin]

Whew. Glad you cleared that up, cuz I'm having a blast playing it, so it appears they nailed it. Does it have some issues? Yep. Will they get adderssed? Yep. Is it absolutely unadulteratedly childish to be throwing a hissy fit pantwetting tantrum over it when the game has only been out for a month and because such-and-such tinfoil hat rationalization leads you to the conclusion of DOOOM!!!! DDDOOOOOOOOOM!!!! DOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!????? Yep.

 

So there is intelligent life on this planet after all. ;p

 

Very well said.

[Tiam]

Who says they ignored beta testers? You know the developers cannot just read the forums and say "I will fix that right now!". They have to take the requests to their superiors and they tell them: "We will add that change to a patch several weeks from now, we are swamped with changes that the next patches need."

 

I was in general beta for over a year. They hardly even acknowledged we were there, and it's obvious they didn't listen to our concerns/feedback because of how SWTOR is atm.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Tiam

[Blackardin]

not being able to disable the snapping camera.

 

big, missing, feature

 

How bout the zoom not returning back out again?

 

yes, there are many issues, but that's the nature of a release. The shell comes first, then its filled in as we move forward. That's why they call it "a launch".

[Irishbrewed]

not being able to disable the snapping camera.

 

big, missing, feature

 

The camera is an abortion...period

[Costello]

No.

 

Not just no, an emphatic no.

 

 

This is not 2004. This is 2012. This is a triple A release from a huge company where no expense was spared in making the game. Some of the missing features are inexcusable, and some of the bugs are ridiculous in nature (WZ's not giving victories for example)

 

I'm not going to give them a pass because "it was just released" and neither should you.

 

Fully agree.

 

It not how long the game has been out that matters it matters what I can play in 2005 or 2012. To say well in 2005 when MMO's were still fairly new WOW wasn't as good as it is today has nothing to do with what sort of experience that should be delievered in an MMO in 2012.

 

It would be like saying Meridian 59 had poor graphics in its first year of launch ToR can be excused having poor graphics in the first year of launch. If TOR had come out in 2004 as it is now it would be the best MMO out there, but it didn't it came out in 2012 and as such has to stand up with the other subscription based MMOs that can be played in 2012.

 

And thats without forgetting that TOR has had millions and millions spent on it, a six year development cycle and working from a pre-created universe with a licenced engine that somneone else build. That the only place people can work out where the time and money went is VO, suggests it was more down to mismanagement rather than being rushed out the door for the lack of features.

[Nighthawked]

Fully agree.

 

It not how long the game has been out that matters it matters what I can play in 2005 or 2012. To say well in 2005 when MMO's were still fairly new WOW wasn't as good as it is today has nothing to do with what sort of experience that should be delievered in an MMO in 2012.

 

It would be like saying Meridian 59 had poor graphics in its first year of launch ToR can be excused having poor graphics in the first year of launch. If TOR had come out in 2004 as it is now it would be the best MMO out there, but it didn't it came out in 2012 and as such has to stand up with the other subscription based MMOs that can be played in 2012.

 

And thats without forgetting that TOR has had millions and millions spent on it, a six year development cycle and working from a pre-created universe with a licenced engine that somneone else build. That the only place people can work out where the time and money went is VO, suggests it was more down to mismanagement rather than being rushed out the door for the lack of features.

 

Yet everybody that agrees with this seems to be forgetting one thing:

 

Yes ToR has had millions and millions spent on it, but World of Warcraft has had billions and billions spent over 10 years.

[lagwagonn]

TOR was just released. Of course it's not going to have the polish that WoW has, WoW was crap at launch but it got better over time after hundreds of updates and new expansions.

 

New MMOs never stand a chance because people are always like "Oh, well WoW had this and this game doesn't, blah blah blah." Yes, TOR may feel a bit rushed but developing and launching an MMO is always a gamble when there's a bigger competitor that has had time to hone their craft and player base. If you thought TOR was going to launch flawlessly, than you are a fool.

 

Though I doubt this has anything to do with it but this is Bioware's first time delving into the world of MMORPGs and I'm impressed but there is room for improvement like always, but then again most people that are down talking the game have obviously never had any patience or expected 10 million players in thriving servers all the time without any flaws.

 

WOW was crap at launch? The engine was pretty damn impressive at launch tbh, very polished. They had some gameplay bugs, mainly exploits, but who doesn't.

[GellonSW]

TOR was just released. Of course it's not going to have the polish that WoW has, WoW was crap at launch but it got better over time after hundreds of updates and new expansions.

 

New MMOs never stand a chance because people are always like "Oh, well WoW had this and this game doesn't, blah blah blah." Yes, TOR may feel a bit rushed but developing and launching an MMO is always a gamble when there's a bigger competitor that has had time to hone their craft and player base. If you thought TOR was going to launch flawlessly, than you are a fool.

 

Though I doubt this has anything to do with it but this is Bioware's first time delving into the world of MMORPGs and I'm impressed but there is room for improvement like always, but then again most people that are down talking the game have obviously never had any patience or expected 10 million players in thriving servers all the time without any flaws.

 

 

Trion's first major MMO was called Rift and out of the box it came with essentially all of the bells and whistles of what we'd expect from MMOs today. Save for people complaining about class balance which every MMO will go through. SWTOR has issues with class balance on top of the myriad of legacy UI and missing features issues. First time in the market is not an excuse.

[GellonSW]

I was in general beta for over a year. They hardly even acknowledged we were there, and it's obvious they didn't listen to our concerns/feedback because of how SWTOR is atm.

 

Agreed. We werent there to beta test their product. We were there to stress test the infrastructure.