Vibeth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember in AC where gear meant very little. When a skilled player could take on multiple, better geared, and high level players and win. Remember when PVP didn't consist of endless CC spam, and when you actually had control of your character the majority of the time? (best way to remove player skill from PVP - remove the players ability to do anything). And when PVP wasn't in some never ending shoebox sized minigame grind, but in the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER world. Back when guild politics meant something. When guilds would fight over for control of towns and leveling spots. Back when PVP had meaning. When your actions had consequences. Back when the skill ceiling was high, when you could dodge projectiles, spells, etc... none of this autohoming crap we have today. You know, does anyone remember back in the days when PVP was actually good? This man deservers a medal (and not a Warzone one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Remember in darkfall when...wait doubt anyone does because no one wanted to play an amazing full loot game. *sigh* I did, but it was made by an indie company and (lack of) quality shows. Plus no hardcap on skills, what where they thinking. Now if a AAA development company made a good quality pvp/pve sandbox the 200k or so of us real mmorpg players would probably go play it for years (retention $$$) and not bother all you mmolite players in your mmolite games and forums. Edited February 7, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Valorite was just a color, stats didnt mean much on crafted gear. So if i had regular iron ingots, valorite ingots, or the black ingots, i still had the same armor on. Colored ore came in a bit later, yes. Valorite was a colored ore. It didn't exist until around Renaisance. And the protection various metals gave didn't go into effect until a little before Age of Shadows hit. Heavy armor, especially plate, was worthless in PvP in Ren times due to the dex penalty, though I did sell light and heavy archer sets (10 internets if you can actually say what made an archer set) and such those were quite popular. Most PvP took place wearing just either basic clothing or completely naked. Anyone in Valorite armor was just a target to die. Edited February 7, 2012 by Silverspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Actually the best was Alterac Valley itself, if you would have to grind Huttenball like you did in Alterac Valley you could kill yourself rather . You compare an exciting massive pvp game with a tiny battleground co-op mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sein_Schatten Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember the good old days of Vanilla Wow and EQ when you actually had to work for the gear you earned. And you were HAPPY to do so! Remember farming countless hours of Alterac Valley turning in Wolf Pelts for reputation so you could, hopefully, a few weeks or a month or 2 down the road have a cool epic weapon! LOBO! And the gear meant something! It wasn't something that people complained about and demanded. Remember the good old days when you first reached max level in your class, you got roflstomped in PVP by players that rightfully outgeared you. And you wouldnt complain once. It was understood. You were a newb and needed to get gear. MMO's aren't fair. And thats why you play them. to gear up and be better than those around you. Where did all this sense of entitlement come into play? Its ridiculous guys. Everyone expects free handouts these days. MMORPGs aren't for you, then. May I suggest PQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubblegumYeti Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember the good old days of Vanilla Wow and EQ when you actually had to work for the gear you earned. And you were HAPPY to do so! That is what jobs are for. Games are to enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Valorite was a colored ore. It didn't exist until around Renaisance. And the protection various metals gave didn't go into effect until a little before Age of Shadows hit. Heavy armor, especially plate, was worthless in PvP in Ren times due to the dex penalty, though I did sell light and heavy armor sets and such those were quite popular. Most PvP took place wearing just either basic clothing or completely naked. Anyone in Valorite armor was just a target to die. I quite at Age of Shadows, that was a pretty poor expansion, though the house tool was pretty dern cool. I crafted my own gear, and it wasn't "hard work", so why not wear it? At that time, i played a macer, and would beat people till their armor fell off. Its been so long, i don't remember exactly what i wore, but it was a combo of plate and chain i think. I certailny wasn't afraid to wear colored armor. Wasn't afraid to be a target i guess.. Armor wasn't the be all end all it is now. Which was also the point of my post. /shrug Edited February 7, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxxiz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember the good old days when you first reached max level in your class, you got roflstomped in PVP by players that rightfully outgeared you. And you wouldnt complain once. It was understood. You were a newb and needed to get gear. MMO's aren't fair. And thats why you play them. to gear up and be better than those around you. Where did all this sense of entitlement come into play? Its ridiculous guys. Everyone expects free handouts these days. This. These days too many players seem to expect for everything to be a completely level playing field in every given situation, you can't have this with an mmo and getting even close to that would take away so much from the game and make classes far less unique you'd get bored rather quickly. Also skill and gear both matter, gear will often overcome skill but it won't often overcome skill+gear still bugs me that so many people can't see this accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torcer Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I love EQ, but I doubt many of us would go back to it's system of "working" for gear. I have a job in real life and they pay me money; I play games to have fun, not work for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember in AC where gear meant very little. When a skilled player could take on multiple, better geared, and high level players and win. Remember when PVP didn't consist of endless CC spam, and when you actually had control of your character the majority of the time? (best way to remove player skill from PVP - remove the players ability to do anything). And when PVP wasn't in some never ending shoebox sized minigame grind, but in the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER world. Back when guild politics meant something. When guilds would fight over for control of towns and leveling spots. Back when PVP had meaning. When your actions had consequences. Back when the skill ceiling was high, when you could dodge projectiles, spells, etc... none of this autohoming crap we have today. You know, does anyone remember back in the days when PVP was actually good? This ^^. Guild wars 2 is getting the idea by taking the gear out of pvp. How it should be, pure skill based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) This. These days too many players seem to expect for everything to be a completely level playing field in every given situation, you can't have this with an mmo and getting even close to that would take away so much from the game and make classes far less unique you'd get bored rather quickly. Also skill and gear both matter, gear will often overcome skill but it won't often overcome skill+gear still bugs me that so many people can't see this accurately. not this? UO was on a pretty level playing field, well, as level as you can get taking gear out of the equation, and i lasted longer in that MMO than any other. There was other things to do than chase gear i guess. /gasp Edited February 7, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzD Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember the good old days of Vanilla Wow and EQ when you actually had to work for the gear you earned. And you were HAPPY to do so! Remember farming countless hours of Alterac Valley turning in Wolf Pelts for reputation so you could, hopefully, a few weeks or a month or 2 down the road have a cool epic weapon! LOBO! And the gear meant something! It wasn't something that people complained about and demanded. Remember the good old days when you first reached max level in your class, you got roflstomped in PVP by players that rightfully outgeared you. And you wouldnt complain once. It was understood. You were a newb and needed to get gear. MMO's aren't fair. And thats why you play them. to gear up and be better than those around you. Where did all this sense of entitlement come into play? Its ridiculous guys. Everyone expects free handouts these days. RNG does not equal Work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 i strongly reccomend BIOWARE not to make easier the gearing up. let them go to WOW. ppl all round the world are looking for some challenge..and not some WOWish crap. I agree , really , now is just hand me gear for free , and BW listen proven fact is the change on the pvp gear drops. I can only hope one day a company make a MMO that is hard again , today it feels like playing on very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yeah I remember vanilla WoW. I remember spending many hours praying to the RNG in BWL, AQ40, and Naxx for stuff to drop. I remember the satisfaction of finally being geared to the point where I didn't have a mathematical handicap against any other player, (and the malaise of roflstomping undergeared players without any effort). Then I remember BC coming out, and making all of my gear/previous effort obsolete. I spent over a year raiding, first for the achievement, then farming for the purpose of gearing up. Be damned if I'm ever going to spend any lengthy amount of time again doing something I generally dislike for the payoff instead of the journey. I don't blame Blizzard for dumbing things down; I blame myself for investing that type of effort in a video game. Anyway, some day all the current rating 140 stuff will be obsolete. If the path to it is not enjoyable, then to me there's no point--it's just chasing your tail. I've done that enough in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember the good old days of Vanilla Wow and EQ when you actually had to work for the gear you earned. And you were HAPPY to do so! Remember farming countless hours of Alterac Valley turning in Wolf Pelts for reputation so you could, hopefully, a few weeks or a month or 2 down the road have a cool epic weapon! LOBO! And the gear meant something! It wasn't something that people complained about and demanded. Remember the good old days when you first reached max level in your class, you got roflstomped in PVP by players that rightfully outgeared you. And you wouldnt complain once. It was understood. You were a newb and needed to get gear. MMO's aren't fair. And thats why you play them. to gear up and be better than those around you. Where did all this sense of entitlement come into play? Its ridiculous guys. Everyone expects free handouts these days. Alterac valley was fun. I hope BioWare implements a warzone similar to it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuleh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 People talking about Vanilla WoW as if it was some kind of hardcore PvP, don't mean to be an elitist but it makes me laugh. Anyone remember the good old days of UO Pre-AoS when all you needed were reagents, your runebook and skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWB-NL Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I personally do not mind 'working' (I prefer calling it putting in effort, being a game and all) for gear. However a few observations from my side: I do not particularly like the massive impact gear has on PVP in many games, SWToR included. So you are a Battlemaster? In that case you shouldn't have any problems killing an inexperienced PVPer by virtue of your superior skills and experience. You shouldn't need to have such a gear advantage that such a player has no chance against you no matter the skill.I'd prefer PvP to be skill and coordination (across teams) based, not gear based. Requiring a major investment of time to be on even terms with those that has been playing forever constitutes a major entry barrier for PvP which could very well prevent a lot of very skilled players from bothering to participate.PvP should be players challenging themselves (and each other) to become better, in a competitive environment where the best player wins. While the best player might be a long term player who has honed his skill over time, most time invested and best are not one and the same. Again, if you are so great you do not need gear to beat others. Feeling that spending a lot of time on PvP entitles you to bash newer players into the ground by virtue of your superior gear and considering this a right bestowed for playing this much? Going to have a long term bad effect on PvP community and participation.If it were up to me, PvP rewards would not have an impact on the outcome of PvP. I have no issues with titles, ranks, unique visual gear and whatnot, but personally making those who are already the highest ranked (and thus *should* be the best) also the best geared is a case of 'rich getting richer' which interferes with actual competitiveness of PvP. This is not aimed at anybody in particular (nor the OP, as I agree on the general concept that especially in recent years gear can be too easy to obtain which cheapens the sense of accomplishment), but my personal impression is that a lot of people who defend the gear gap as something they have earned are actually scared of being 'exposed' by what would happen if their gear level was equal to their opponent, and prefer 'hiding' behind their gear advantage. Finally in case this topic is aimed at today's changes: I suspect the commendation gains have been tuned such that the overall rate of gear gain has stayed roughly equal. However in the new situation it will for the most part be a predictable influx of gear, where there is some sort of correlation between time invested and gear level, rather than a pure crapshoot where people can be geared after a few bags, or be Battlemaster and have little to show for it. (Both of which have happened far too often). I'd say that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I remember awful games where you had to stand in same spot for week(s) killing same monsters 10 hours a day just to get a level. Very awesome...not. Those games were junk and glad they are history. Hopefully teh "gear" will be removed from MMOs in near future. Edited February 7, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Having to WORK in a game, for GEAR, was not "good old days". Doing it for FUN in a GAME, regardless of what the reward was, if any, THAT was the "good old days". I miss 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenomen Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 All these People who want to have a huge Advantage given to them because they have little Life outside of their Game. Its sad and creepy at the same Time. Yeah working your *** off in a game, sounds like something a sane Person would do, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Remember pointless grinding for hours and hours just to get a token for anything? I don't miss it. Fair grinding it fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceogar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I remember swg where it tooks months becoming a jedi and months to become a good crafter and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogurt Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 meh Gear plays a point but I still prefer how Shadowbane did it... You get the crafter documents once the city is built near a stat rune spawn or good place for you folks to level. With gear similar to Diablo drop style that can come out really nice from a automated crafter or drop from trash mobs. The runes and your build where the majority of your character stats came from. This sandbox crap is lame. And Ilum is not world pvp and people just make me want to facepalm everytime I read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 my friend i would subcribe for the next ten years to an mmo that offered such pvp and im still searching since the legend of mir2 EVE has these features but it's not for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 People that enjoy that "wowish crap" are the majority paying for future development of this game for you. Be grateful Wow haters that pretend they havent been playing wow for years and pretend to hate the game to fit in make me laugh. I don't pretend that I didn't play/enjoy it during vanilla, I sure as hell hated it when TBC came out and they dumbed everything down though. Still if we want to go for REALLY difficult gearing, lets do it...AO style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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