Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[BegaTasty]

whats really a problem si the fact all these nerfs are coming because of battlegrounds. LOL no class should EVER be balanced because of that ****. Its always demanded by players who did something wrong an automatically decide xyz is over powered.

[meshade]

didn't read the thread!

 

JUST NERF THEM ALREADY ROAR!!!!

 

and remove savage kick restrictions!

[Dyne-]

Hmm...I play a dps juggernaut and I manage to kill just about everyone I come across. The issue is gear not so much the class itself. Don't get me wrong, as a melee I still feel like the ranged classes have it a hell of a lot easier, but proper usage of your abilities (assuming you're equally geared) will allow you to win at least sometimes.

[Wheem]

Actually it is much easier.. As they can see us they can stun, root, snare, jump, pull.. There is a list of things they can do to us.. To you they have to AOE in the right location, and a good op will play the guessing game, did they turn or not in stealth to hide their direction.

Stuns, roots, snares, jumps, and pulls not only all apply to Scoundrels and Operatives just like they do Sages and Sorcerers, but we're also less able to deal with them. You really have no idea how wonderful you have it in comparison.

 

You know what I do on my Scoundrel when a melee gets into my face? I either "tank" them right from the get-go, or I use Dirty Kick or Flash Grenade, then walk at 50% speed to try and get out of their LOS so that I actually have a little time to heal myself and/or my team before I have to start tanking them. I emphasize the word "try" there, since in some cases it's simply not possible to LOS them, especially without hurting my team (ie, Huttball).

 

You know what I do in the same situation on my Sage? It really varies. Sometimes I'll knock them off platforms or to the other side of objects (especially powerful on Huttball, but can also put people in crappy locations on the other maps; IE, off a side-turret platform or mid-turret balcony on Alderaan, and followed up with a snare). Sometimes I'll stun, just like on my Scoundrel, but then I'm able to follow that up with a snare removal and/or force speed, so that I'm not stuck moving at 50% of normal speed; this actually allows me to move to a better location than just barely on the other side of the object that I was hugging.

 

When I'm attacked by a melee who's CC immune (whether it's due to resolve or force jump-related talents), my Sage has it even better since I'm still able to remove snares and sprint; while all my Scoundrel can do is stand there and take the hits (I might even survive long enough to out-last their resolve bar if I get really lucky on Upper Hand procs and/or juke an interrupt).

 

Same thing when I'm attacked by ranged classes on my two characters. The Sage can interrupt Skill Missile spam without charging into the enemy team to get in range to do so, and I can follow that up with a ranged stun if necessary. And if my Sage is being Lightning spammed (and possibly taking other ranged damage at the same time)? No problem, use Restoration to remove the snare-portion of the Force Lightning and run out of their LOS; my Scoundrel has to tank all the incoming damage while I 50% walk to an object.

 

Finally, it's quite easy to break a Scoundrel/Operative's vanish if you're prepared for it; seems like most AOE's have about an 8 meter range, and lots of them are instant cast. Force in Balance (Sage ability, easily obtained by healing hybrid spec's, too) makes it fairly trivial.

 

Healing spec'd Scoundrels and Operatives aren't in the same survivability/utility league as Sages and Sorcerers, period. I invite you to start a Scoundrel or Operative healer to PvP with if you don't believe me (just be sure to get to at least level 31 before really making a judgment though; without Emergency Medpac and Emergent Emergencies, Scoundrel healers are especially trashy in PvP).

[sephsly]

nice troll thread

[mandrillagon]

nice troll thread

 

You have to expect sorc/sage to troll the thread as much as possible with their theorycraft in a desperate attempt to avoid how badly the community wants them nerfed.

[Jargonaut]

You have to expect sorc/sage to troll the thread as much as possible with their theorycraft in a desperate attempt to avoid how badly the community wants them nerfed.

 

As well as the fact there are literally hundreds of thousands of them, it's like a swarn of denial.

[Shadowous]

Have you not noticed that alot of Sorc/sages do dmg to themselves so they can heal themselves up to get that 100k heal

[tangsoo]

hah I play a sorc healer and I would just tell you to learn to stun!

You could also roll a stealth dps and if you catch us without bubble you can kill us in afew seconds without us being able to do anything!

 

If anything nerf that!

[Wheem]

Have you not noticed that alot of Sorc/sages do dmg to themselves so they can heal themselves up to get that 100k heal

I've never done that on my Sage and still almost always get the 75k healing medal. And getting over 100k isn't that uncommon either (whether full DPS spec or hybrid dps/healing; and before level 50 at that). The damage prevented by your bubble counts as healing, and when coupled with LOS -> Deliverance, it's pretty easy to get a significant amount of healing going.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Wheem

[babiegirlla]

Yeah, and that`s just ONE SORC.

 

It`s RIDICULOUS with the amount of control they have being as popular and most played as they are, HAVING TO GO AGAINST freaking 3-4+ EVERY WZ.

 

I`d be happy if they just removed the sprint from non-healers, and disallowed the use of bubble shield unless a healer. Or reduce the CDs of all the abilities.

Edited February 8, 2012 by babiegirlla

[Choppaman]

No matter what class I play, the opposing team's Sage/Sorc players always dominate. The problem is, they just have too many tools at their disposal. Despite wearing light armor, they're extremely durable because of their bubble. If a fight goes south, they can always pop their in-combat sprint and run away. And with an insta-slow on top of the passive snare on their rocks/lightning, it's impossible to run from one unless you happen to catch them in CC with their CC-breaker on cooldown. And even standing toe-to-toe with them doesn't work, because they have DoTs that allow them to deal fire-and-forget damage, then pillar hump the nearest LoS object while they heal themselves.

 

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win. And to top it off, they can still fall back and heal their teammates in group situations if their DPS isn't doing the job.

 

The Sage/Sorc is just good at too many things, and has way too many tools for combat disruption and soft crowd control. This is a constant the holds true in my mind no matter which class I face off against them with.

 

And this doesn't take into account that all of their damage bypasses almost all types of armor and defenses.

 

Let the flame war commence!

 

As a commando healer, I think I have a bit more survivability, but they have far greater heals.

 

My main issue with them is their sprint, which I think the cooldown is much too short on. Sprinting with the huttball is pretty lame and gives a very unique advantage to that class when most classes are at a huge disadvantage in huttball.

[Raice]

Coz they outgear you. If you can't beat a sage or a sorc in similar gear then you need to learn to. It's not difficult, and if you need to come to the forums and ask for a class nerf then you are more than likely lacking in gear, skill or experience or all three .

 

Funny... I said the same thing when Sorcs rage-quit and demanded a nerf on me (Scrapper.) I even wrote a thread about how this whole "Hate Machine" will eventually turn around and be placed on another class. Just my luck... Sorcs were the first ones on that $hit list.

 

Of course, I agree with the other guy - they'll never be touched. If BW had the mindset to buff Sorcs with 1.1.2... they clearly have no idea what is in the best interest of game balance. Sorcs/Sages didn't need a buff to begin with. The only class that could make them settle down was Scrapper... and they got hit hard in 1.1.1. Because...

 

"Sorcs came to the forums and cried for a class nerf."

 

I tried to be reasonable before the nerfs even started going around. But... guys like you weren't interested in listening to reason. I have no sympathy for you. And... of course you don't care - because you're winning. I think it's great that the only reason you could beat us was because we got nerfed. That lightning button works really well now, doesn't it?

 

I don't blame BW for this game falling apart. Well.. I do... but I blame Sorcs/Sages too.

[Sirolos]

As a commando healer, I think I have a bit more survivability, but they have far greater heals.

 

My main issue with them is their sprint, which I think the cooldown is much too short on. Sprinting with the huttball is pretty lame and gives a very unique advantage to that class when most classes are at a huge disadvantage in huttball.

 

Leaping with the ball is just as big an advantage..actually its a bigger advantage

 

You cant stun people mid leap and stop them from reaching point b from point a

 

if hybrid specs are a problem. Then they will get corrected, but they will be buffed in another area to compensate.

Notice what they did with the Assassins.

They nerfed stance dancing, nerfed hybrid Raze specs, but buffed the entire madness tree.

 

I think they will move the AoE root from overload higher, and move the 20% bubble higher.

 

 

but when hybrids are nerfed, be prepared for another tree to be buffed.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Sirolos

[Darth_Philar]

"Sorcs came to the forums and cried for a class nerf."

 

 

I just find it amusing that people still think that any kind of QQ works.

 

Guess what? It doesn't.

 

Sometimes it appears to work, but that is just Confirmation Bias.

 

Bioware has tools they use to track actual metrics that determine who gets buffed and who gets nerfed. That's how it works in the real world.

[Sirolos]

I just find it amusing that people still think that any kind of QQ works.

 

Guess what? It doesn't.

 

Sometimes it appears to work, but that is just Confirmation Bias.

 

Bioware has tools they use to track actual metrics that determine who gets buffed and who gets nerfed. That's how it works in the real world.

 

Thats how its been working.

 

Ops got a nerf

 

Assassin hybrids got nerfed

 

Sentinals got "Fixed"

[Hidus]

I just find it amusing that people still think that any kind of QQ works.

 

Guess what? It doesn't.

 

Sometimes it appears to work, but that is just Confirmation Bias.

 

Bioware has tools they use to track actual metrics that determine who gets buffed and who gets nerfed. That's how it works in the real world.

 

It's not just amusing, it's downright hilarious. In their minds this is how it works:

 

<bioware employee #1> Hey guys, I'm getting reports on the forums that we should nerf ops.

 

<bioware employee #2> Hmm that's a tough call. They definitely do good burst damage but I can't say for sure it's OP. Just out of curiosity who was asking for the nerfs?

 

<bioware employee #1> It's the sorcs.

 

<bioware employee #2> WHOA WHOA WHOA! Why didn't you say it was the sorcs? Go fetch my nerfbat immediately, we need to pander to our favorite class!

[Darth_Philar]

Thats how its been working.

 

Ops got a nerf

 

Assassin hybrids got nerfed

 

Sentinals got "Fixed"

 

While it is true that players may be able to detect very flagrant imbalances and complain about them, most instances of QQ and the perceived buff/nerf are just Confirmation Bias: If you think something is true, you will always find evidence to support it.

 

Trust me, Bioware has no use for the QQ on these forums because:

1. If it is a real problem they already know about it from using their developer tools.

2. If it is not a real problem they aren't going to address it.

 

Ergo, all QQ is pointless all the time.

[Orangerascal]

As a commando healer, I think I have a bit more survivability, but they have far greater heals.

 

My main issue with them is their sprint, which I think the cooldown is much too short on. Sprinting with the huttball is pretty lame and gives a very unique advantage to that class when most classes are at a huge disadvantage in huttball.

 

I'm pretty sure most sages/sorcs will trade their sprint for heavy armour.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Zellata]

I'm pretty sure most sages/sorcs will trade their sprint for heavy armour.

 

We will even throw in our blind-on-bubble-burst thingy just to sweeten the deal

[Raice]

I just find it amusing that people still think that any kind of QQ works.

 

Guess what? It doesn't.

 

Sometimes it appears to work, but that is just Confirmation Bias.

 

Bioware has tools they use to track actual metrics that determine who gets buffed and who gets nerfed. That's how it works in the real world.

 

So the years of Design Testing, Alpha Testing, and Beta Testing - all of it filled with scientific metrics and even closer focused observation was suddenly completely different after a few weeks of Live?

 

You trying to tell me that over half the population playing Sage/Sorcs crying for a nerf, which stated the direct opposite of what all those years of metric based focus testing had confirmed time and time again, had nothing to do with their knee-jerk reaction of a hack-job on that nerf?

 

Sure... what world are you living in?

[Sconnoll]

Wow so much sage hate here, I should stop healing you bastards.

[Vincedaddy]

There is a spec for madness sorcs and whatever the sage equivalent is that lets them spam one button if every single player on the enemy team has forgotten what an interrupt is.

 

Don't know if your bad or just misinformed about sorcs... Affliction>creeping terror>deathfield>lightning>crushing darkness>from this point reapply dots/use situational abilities. How is that one button spam? In addition here's a he assignment find a sorc spec where mashing one button is viable

[SeloDaoC]

I'm pretty sure most sages/sorcs will trade their sprint for heavy armour.

 

Ill take that trade in a heartbeat, you can have all my heavy armor, plus some extra

[LatinLegacy]

I'm pretty sure most sages/sorcs will trade their sprint for heavy armour.

 

I'll take that trade! Now I would be able to run from my battles like a p...., I mean, coward instead of being constantly snared/stunned with no way out. The difference between both armor attacks is like 1 2K hit in a PvP environment.

 

-LatinLegacy