Lethality is THE PVP Spec.

[RicR]

I spec engineer for pvp, it's how I play.

 

Huttball- not really a sniper WZ but I can put ot just as much damage if thats what was required to WIN the huttball game but it isn't, it's the score that matters so when you see these post of I can do this much damage blah blah blah just tells me you're a one way pvper and more then likely spend more time trying for medals when you can be part of a team and put scores on the board. And alot of times it's those non cover using lethal snipers that Juggs and w/e class find at edge to leap to and score on. Your 500k damage is pointless without being able to carry that ball for a goal.

 

Voidstar -Civil War my plasma probes are great defense on turrets and doors against those stealthing in to ninja. Because playing defense rather then running around racking kills and damage result in more winning matches.

 

either way the spec for pvp is dependent on the player on how well they play the class. I don't understand where the concept of doing the most damage in a match makes you feel that is the best spec for pvp. You get a few medals so what it doesn't win matches , completeing the match objectives is what matters passing the ball assisting the ball carrier defending turrets and doors planting bombs etc. tell me what spec is able to do all that and that is what I would consider the best for pvp.

[rekoil]

Have to agree re: vs a decent healer, lethality becomes frustratingly limited , cant nuke the healer down or his buddy with guard up- definitely the biggest weakness I have discovered so far Edited February 8, 2012 by rekoil

[daniteh]

It isn't in any way better than MM in PVP. Not even close.

 

Lethality is just a spec for people who don't want cover and enjoy running around.

 

With a competent healer in ranked wz's, lethality will be nowhere to be found.

 

MM is just hard mode but when it is mastered, and I doubt anyone has done it yet, they will be beasts in ranked WZs.

 

While I do agree that marksman is a good pvp spec, i disagree with you when you say its better than lethality "when mastered." It's fair to say that after playing a sniper in beta (to 50), aswell as playing to 68 valor now, i have "mastered" marksman. This is not to sound cocky, its just if you define mastery as experience, I simply have it.

 

I have pvped for the majority of my days as marksman, and did enjoy it, before the 50 brackets. I was doing more damage than I do now as lethality, as marksman in mixed brackets. Now that there are 50 brackets, I simply cannot do as much damage as i used to, no matter what kind of game, or kind of team composition. With lethality I ALWAYS do more damage than my marksman spec.

Edited February 8, 2012 by daniteh

[Ravzar]

Daniteh more damage in a warzone could simply be because lethality does less burst so it means you need to use more damage to kill someone so you have a higher damage to killing blow ratio. Marksman is a single target burst damage spec and will always not put out the same DPS as dot specs. With Marksman your big damage is on 15s and 30s cds which also accounts for that. You also don't have any aoe dots like you do with lethality.

[GladiatorSam]

If you are just tab spamming dots, it will make you do a lot of damage on the charts. However If it's not contributing to any of the kills, it is just worthless pressure. It might be better to just burst someone down so their entire team just crumbles.

[daniteh]

If you are just tab spamming dots, it will make you do a lot of damage on the charts. However If it's not contributing to any of the kills, it is just worthless pressure. It might be better to just burst someone down so their entire team just crumbles.

 

Yes, as lethality you want to tab dot as many people as possible. This being said, it adds to your dps, but that doesn't mean you can't pressure people (or own) people 1on1. Actually, i find it easier to kill a majority of people 1on1 as lethality (accept sorcs... which were easier in marksman). Tanks/dps are actually a lot easier to kill in this spec b/c of internal damage.

[Ravzar]

For the cd they should really make aimed shot (and your equiv - forgot what it is called) elemental damage - say some BS on the tooltip about overloading your weapons to deal a fiery shot etc etc - makes sense to me. Every other class gets a single target elemental or internal spell. That or buff vital shot to do the dot damage over 6s instead of 15s. We don't need more burst we just need more sustained against heavy armour targets imo. Even if you go lethality the dots don't tick very hard. The damage really comes from cull and even most of that is weapon damage.

[Veala]

The only situation Marks will outperform Lethality in is a very long term brawl at an objective. Don't get me wrong, that can happen at a single door in Voidstar or at the middle node in Alderaan, but more often than not you'll have breaks between fights that allow Lethality to recover energy between nukes. If you pace yourself as Lethality and take advantage of your short CD Adrenaline Probe, it's rare that you'll run into energy issues. Don't get me wrong, it happens, but it happens a lot less often than I find myself in a situation where I need to kill a tank/heavy armor class.

 

Marksmanship advocates say that you have to "pick your targets" as MM, but that's just a nice way of saying "my spec's effectiveness is noticeably impaired by 4/8 classes in the game". Fact is, heavy armor wearers are some of the most popular classes in the game. It's exceedingly rare to play a Republic team without at least 2 Jedi Guardians and probably multiple Troopers. Same for Empire, but swap Bounty Hunters outnumbering Juggs. MM is a good spec, but its weakness crops up a lot more often than Lethality's does.

 

Yeah, Lethality can be dispelled. In a small scale encounter, that can be a real problem. In a fight involving 4-6 players on each side though (ie. most fights you'll find yourself in), it's a non-issue. The human brain can only process so much information at once, and the interface for recognizing debuffs in this game is pretty bad. There are probably only a handful of people in the game that are capable of recognizing a Lethality dot combo and realizing that they need to dispel it before you've already finished your Cull. Even if they do recognize it, they have to decide if it's worth the GCD to dispel it or if they should keep healing whoever is being focused. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that missing one GCD on a dispel instead of a heal can make the difference between someone dying or not.

 

TL;DR. Lethality and MM are both good, but Marks' weakness crops up a lot more often than Lethality's does.

[NoTomorrow]

I don't like that if i want to gun down heavy armor i need to go lethality. But i think bioware will do nothing about this.

[daniteh]

I don't like that if i want to gun down heavy armor i need to go lethality. But i think bioware will do nothing about this.

 

I don't think bioware plans on making any drastic changes to sniper in the near future, or at least there hasn't been enough outcry to call for any changes to be made.

Edited February 8, 2012 by daniteh

[saido]

+1 MM in PVP. No issue here. Toe-to-toed an operative 1v1 in a WZ and won. Usually get 6 medals a WZ and some objectives and rate high on the damage. It's play-style.

[Ihazcrayon]

Lovin lethality. Leveled all the way up with MM and swapped to lethality. I lost quite a bit of credits swapping back and forth because I find both fun. Lethality fits more my playstyle. And you can still have decent burst with a nice energy pool if you do it right. Also with a lil help of RNG gods but you can get your crit high with spec points anyways.

[Gaidax]

For the cd they should really make aimed shot (and your equiv - forgot what it is called) elemental damage - say some BS on the tooltip about overloading your weapons to deal a fiery shot etc etc - makes sense to me.

 

Fires a shot that removes all the rust in the barrel generated by Sniper Tears to cause XXXX Internal damage due to blood poisoning from the rust.

 

Or maybe this: Cursed Shot: you perform a ritual dance for 2.5 seconds, by the end of which a brick falls on a head of your enemy causing XXXX internal brain damage and locking all enemy skills, except for Tracer Missile for 4 seconds.

 

Dam I'm good... Bioware, Y U NO TAKE ME AS A DEV??

Edited February 8, 2012 by Gaidax

[MightyHalo]

Even as MM if I want only damage in a WZ, which is rare, I just spam corrosive dart on as many people as possible.

 

Quoting damage totals is kind of ridiculous.

[Ihazcrayon]

The thing is i dont spam corrosive dart. It's kinda ridiculous to do so since it ticks so low. The bread and butter is in cull. I do corrosive grenade in a group then dart my target, ambush...cull....explosive probe...and cull again energy permitting (which I usually have a healthy amount unless I have to defend myself). Usually I don't have to since my team usually will assist.

 

So fun!

 

*EDIT*

 

The only time I spam dart is if I know I will probably go down and want to defend a door/node

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ihazcrayon

[ScottHK]

From looking through the talent trees, theoretically I'd of imagined Engineering would of been the best for pvp.

 

Then again, it just looks good on paper, I've still to actually try it.

[Mythicrose]

The thing is i dont spam corrosive dart. It's kinda ridiculous to do so since it ticks so low. The bread and butter is in cull. I do corrosive grenade in a group then dart my target, ambush...cull....explosive probe...and cull again energy permitting (which I usually have a healthy amount unless I have to defend myself). Usually I don't have to since my team usually will assist.

 

So fun!

 

*EDIT*

 

The only time I spam dart is if I know I will probably go down and want to defend a door/node

 

Any reason you're not putting in a weakening blast before a cull? Also isn't there a nine second gap between your first cull and second? Are you doing in those nine seconds?

 

I'm just trying to understand your playstyle here. You'd weaken someone with your method, but that's not enough to kill someone if you have a gap of nothing between culls. Maybe you're just setting up an opponent to fall to a team mate, though.

[VaJJ]

Lethality is like Sorcs, so many AoEs and spread damage they will always lead the charts.

 

MM is like Tracer Missile, focused damage on a single person with high burst and easier energy management.

 

If you like seeing big numbers at the end roll Leth, if you like to see big numbers each shot go MM.

 

 

With that in being said I have never had a Leth Sniper out damage me unless I joined the match late... Skill > Spec.

[VaJJ]

Any reason you're not putting in a weakening blast before a cull? Also isn't there a nine second gap between your first cull and second? Are you doing in those nine seconds?

 

I'm just trying to understand your playstyle here. You'd weaken someone with your method, but that's not enough to kill someone if you have a gap of nothing between culls. Maybe you're just setting up an opponent to fall to a team mate, though.

 

I would guess interrogation probe or trying to dot/proc explosives to regain energy. Even in Leth there are people who go heavy engi for the added energy regens rather than get weakening blast (IMO the cooldown is way to long and the damage too low to actually spec).

[MaroBaro]

Playing lethality defeats the purpose of playing a sniper.

[shadowAI]

Lethality is like Sorcs, so many AoEs and spread damage they will always lead the charts.

 

Except a sorc can cast over 35 spells consecutively before resource issues

[mBass]

Playing lethality defeats the purpose of playing a sniper.

 

Being limited to 35 meters, having no hiding methods, lobbing grenades, firing from a standing position while running, taking 6+ shots to kill a target, etc. etc. etc..... those are all within the definition of "sniper" though right?

[VaJJ]

Except a sorc can cast over 35 spells consecutively before resource issues

 

If specced correctly you can literally spam everything as soon as possible and never run low... I just meant in the types of damage not that Leth Snipers can only cast 4 or 5 things before running out and they can cast indefinitely without suffering any sort of power concerns.

[Karast]

The thing to remember about both MM and Let. is that in the 50's bracket fighting geared premades that know how to play both are pretty much worthless.

 

With MM your dps gets mitigated into the ground against a BM premade. You looking at a base 45-65% mitigation on everything when you take armor mitigation and expertise into account.

 

That simply guts your dps, even with the armor debuff yours going to be doing piss poor burst against any medium and heavy armor, and you have the added penalty that all of our key abilities in MM can be dodged. That means other Agents / Smugglers, tanks, and especially can easily laugh off many of your key abilities with a lucky dodge.

 

When you also take into account that a lot of the premades run heavy on commandos (high base mitigation) and sages (good mitigation + absorb + run speed for breaking LoS) MM is semi gimped.

 

Let. works well but as many have stated it has a bit of a setup 4-5 GCD's on average and you have to watch energy consumption like a hawk. If your manage to get cull off with your dots up and follow it with a probe you can do really nasty damage. The only issue is our dots can be purged, they can actually be purged 2 at a time on a 4.5s CD ability that all of the hybrid healers get. That means commando, sage, scoundrel.

 

All it takes is 1 member of a 4 man team to press purge on your target ever 4.5 seconds while your setting up your dots from they to destroy your dps, and since every premade is running 2-3 hybrids on average, as long as they are smart enough to have purge on their bars your done.

 

This does not even touch on mobility issues, the fact that our CC immunity buffs serves really as a 20 second root, it does not touch the fact that without cover for the leap immunity we are sitting ducks for melee, and if we try to stay in cover we open ourselves up to be easy targets for stealthers and other ranged dps. As we crouch there and try to get a 1.5-3 second cast off they'll just hop in and out of LoS and drop dots and then heal themselves up behind a pillar.

 

Were easily countered, heavily mitigated, and bring nothing of any real value to a group, when you compare us with the alternatives. It sucks but that's the way it is.

 

10-49 and 50 endgame are completely different. If your dieing to snipers and gunslingers its your own fault. They are the most easily countered class in the game bar none, and all of their abilities and rotations are blatantly obvious. The only time they are actually dangerous to anyone is in the sub 50 bracket where they actually have burst damage. 5k out of an HP pool of 12k is a lot. 3-4k out of 18k is not.

[Alkaholic]

The thing to remember about both MM and Let. is that in the 50's bracket fighting geared premades that know how to play both are pretty much worthless.

 

With MM your dps gets mitigated into the ground against a BM premade. You looking at a base 45-65% mitigation on everything when you take armor mitigation and expertise into account.

 

That simply guts your dps, even with the armor debuff yours going to be doing piss poor burst against any medium and heavy armor, and you have the added penalty that all of our key abilities in MM can be dodged. That means other Agents / Smugglers, tanks, and especially can easily laugh off many of your key abilities with a lucky dodge.

 

When you also take into account that a lot of the premades run heavy on commandos (high base mitigation) and sages (good mitigation + absorb + run speed for breaking LoS) MM is semi gimped.

 

Let. works well but as many have stated it has a bit of a setup 4-5 GCD's on average and you have to watch energy consumption like a hawk. If your manage to get cull off with your dots up and follow it with a probe you can do really nasty damage. The only issue is our dots can be purged, they can actually be purged 2 at a time on a 4.5s CD ability that all of the hybrid healers get. That means commando, sage, scoundrel.

 

All it takes is 1 member of a 4 man team to press purge on your target ever 4.5 seconds while your setting up your dots from they to destroy your dps, and since every premade is running 2-3 hybrids on average, as long as they are smart enough to have purge on their bars your done.

 

This does not even touch on mobility issues, the fact that our CC immunity buffs serves really as a 20 second root, it does not touch the fact that without cover for the leap immunity we are sitting ducks for melee, and if we try to stay in cover we open ourselves up to be easy targets for stealthers and other ranged dps. As we crouch there and try to get a 1.5-3 second cast off they'll just hop in and out of LoS and drop dots and then heal themselves up behind a pillar.

 

Were easily countered, heavily mitigated, and bring nothing of any real value to a group, when you compare us with the alternatives. It sucks but that's the way it is.

 

10-49 and 50 endgame are completely different. If your dieing to snipers and gunslingers its your own fault. They are the most easily countered class in the game bar none, and all of their abilities and rotations are blatantly obvious. The only time they are actually dangerous to anyone is in the sub 50 bracket where they actually have burst damage. 5k out of an HP pool of 12k is a lot. 3-4k out of 18k is not.

 

Too many words to be trolling, yet completely wrong...