Gear based PvP is amateur hour

[darthmorbous]

Non WoW-clones online games would like to have a word with you. Like Vindictus, for example.

 

or DC Universe

or Continent of the ninth

or 1.4 Age of Conan (so sad they turned it into PvE carebears stat game now, is way worse than swtor even now)

[Xsorus]

Basically, people want to take the RPG out of MMORPG.

 

RPG's at their core are building your character up.

 

those who focus on a character are generally more powerful then those who don't.

 

you can simply look at every single MMO since release, and it's in some way building you your character.

 

be it UO, with Skills and Vanquishing Weapons

 

or DAOC, with Realm Rank system.

 

they all have a way to show who has played their character longer over who is a bloody nub.

 

*edit*

 

PS, everytime I see a "Guild Wars 2 will be amazing post" by people in these threads or on Forums, I kept help to wonder, How bloody stupid can human beings get?

 

GW2 will not be the second coming, It will not have the most amazing PVP ever, and it will not be any different from any other MMO you play.

 

In fact, you will be doing the same collective Meh everyone has done for the past few years since WOW when it is released.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Xsorus

[ataborik]

I love when I dont need to grind gear and I can play PvP to improve my skills (my own) and instead of better gear I have better flexibility ....

 

The game which should be about flexibility and not grind should release soon (not GW2, but GW2 will be similar and it wont be about gear) :-)))))

 

You will receive more and more skills and you can tweaks your builds but your original build is still strong and should be comparable to someone else who invest more time but have better posibilities to change the build or play something different..... But who knows, maybe it will be about gear .... again....

[Ojoecinco]

The haves vs. the wanting?

 

The hard working vs. the work-less?

 

Where have I heard this argument before???? Hmmmmmm......

 

Oh yeaaaahhhh, last election... thaaaaat's right!

 

TO THE LITTLE KIDS CRYING ABOUT NOT HAVING GEAR & GETTING FACE STOMPED......

 

Welcome to reality. It exists.... even in video games. In RL, you work your tail off, make powerful friends, and go through the daily "grind" to get ahead. Sooner or later you find yourself behind the wheel of a Porsche at a stop light, while the stoner in the car next to you, who has put life on easy-mode, sits in his beater Honda and complains that he WANTS a Porsche and SHOULD have one because..... It's not faaaiiiirrrrr. Well, guess what, kids?

 

It doesn't work that way.

 

Translated to in-game: You see a guy in much better gear (the Porsche in my example above)... run. He's better than you (face it, yes he is), has worked harder, longer than you, and has EARNED the right to the advantage. BUT NEWSFLASH!!!!!! Just like RL, you too have the exact same opportunity to be in the same position. You just have to EARN it.

 

Leet is Leet & a Dead Beat is Dead Beat. Funny how art imitates life like that isn't it? Run along now and let your tears go fall onto some other forum. Maybe go find one debating the meaning of a Dashboard Confessional album or something?

[Mongrul]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

who are you speaking for? an entire generation of people?

 

and cool opinion you got there

[mordredz]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

ROFL unless you live with mom? ppl have been loving the fact they have to grind/work towards gear to show they put work into there toons for um years, not sure what your smoking but tell your mom to share next time champ...

[mordredz]

I love when I dont need to grind gear and I can play PvP to improve my skills (my own) and instead of better gear I have better flexibility ....

 

The game which should be about flexibility and not grind should release soon (not GW2, but GW2 will be similar and it wont be about gear) :-)))))

 

You will receive more and more skills and you can tweaks your builds but your original build is still strong and should be comparable to someone else who invest more time but have better posibilities to change the build or play something different..... But who knows, maybe it will be about gear .... again....

 

Ya your talking about MW3, so go play it and enjoy?

[Deridia]

I am sure a couple of ya didn't play DAoC ....

 

DAoC is the best MMO ever for PVP. Granted, ToA and New Frontiers ruined it slightly but 8v8 in emain was the stuff of legends.

[Umpire]

I didn't read any of this but it's true

[venjinze]

It's always the people that just hit 50 that come here and complain that they are getting rolled in PvP. Let me tell you, if there was NO PvP gear in this game, people would still be rolling you in end game PvE gear.

 

It isn't hard to get PvP gear, or any gear for that matter in this game. It's not only the people that live in their mom's basement that are rolling around at battlemaster. Actually, when you're BM, it takes like an hour out of your day to get your armaments and 3 wz wins. That directly contradicts all these people that think you have to put in long hours and countless days to grind Battlemaster gear.

 

I don't PvE, so PvP gear is the only progressive item set I can work towards.

 

DAoC was great but there was still gear differentials in newly leveled players, don't kid yourselves. And a huge skillset differential, as with any MMO.

 

Stop making excuses.

Edited February 27, 2012 by venjinze

[rzrknight]

hehehe yeah right,

 

You guys are very funny actually , the system is not skilled based cause you cant EVER gear up and fight on the same lvl?

 

No the system is not skill based to YOU cause you want things given for free every damm time.

 

This system is quite skill based atm IF you spend your time and get the gear to make it so.

 

Skill based PvP <> Lazy PvP.

[_Marou_]

DAoC was great but there was still gear differentials in newly leveled players, don't kid yourselves. And a huge skillset different, as with any MMO.

 

You didn't play it, huh? Prior to ToA, which most players credit with killing the game, the best gear was player crafted/enchanted stuff. So, everyone was really on a level playing field (gear wise) immediately upon hitting level cap. Assuming they could afford the gear (everyone could).

 

PvE raids ruin PvP games by adding a gear grind to them. DAoC didn't have meaningful PvE raids.

[Jellison]

I hated WoW's gear>skill system, sigh.

[veyl]

The haves vs. the wanting?

 

The hard working vs. the work-less?

 

Where have I heard this argument before???? Hmmmmmm......

 

Oh yeaaaahhhh, last election... thaaaaat's right!

 

TO THE LITTLE KIDS CRYING ABOUT NOT HAVING GEAR & GETTING FACE STOMPED......

 

Welcome to reality. It exists.... even in video games. In RL, you work your tail off, make powerful friends, and go through the daily "grind" to get ahead. Sooner or later you find yourself behind the wheel of a Porsche at a stop light, while the stoner in the car next to you, who has put life on easy-mode, sits in his beater Honda and complains that he WANTS a Porsche and SHOULD have one because..... It's not faaaiiiirrrrr. Well, guess what, kids?

 

It doesn't work that way.

 

Translated to in-game: You see a guy in much better gear (the Porsche in my example above)... run. He's better than you (face it, yes he is), has worked harder, longer than you, and has EARNED the right to the advantage. BUT NEWSFLASH!!!!!! Just like RL, you too have the exact same opportunity to be in the same position. You just have to EARN it.

 

Leet is Leet & a Dead Beat is Dead Beat. Funny how art imitates life like that isn't it? Run along now and let your tears go fall onto some other forum. Maybe go find one debating the meaning of a Dashboard Confessional album or something?

 

And the republican shows up. What's funny to me is that there's no "hard work" involved in getting Battlemaster gear. You que up, run around doing everything that isn't the games actual objectives and within a months time, you're 60. The only "dedication" you put into the grind is time and even that, you don't have to actually sit at your computer and play. You could afk out in a corner somewhere after the game starts and still achieve 60. (Kind of like a politician getting into office just because his daddy was there? Yeah. Same concept: earning a title you don't deserve based on the backs of other people.)

 

Even the rich who are spoiled rotten sitting in their Porches still have a feeling of Entitlement and BELIEVE that everything should be handed to them first. They "earned" it after all, right? (This argument also goes to all of the "hardcore" pve guilds out there whining about color crystals, raiding isn't hard, get over yourselves.)

[Fylkras]

Venjinze I tend to agree with you however I think if we look at the difference that gear makes then we begin to see the sort of gearflation people are talking about. The point being what does having several tiers of PvP gear add to a game? What does it take away? Of course people want to be rewarded for their PvP awesomeness but what kinds of rewards are most in line with MMO PvP?

 

Many of us are happy with minor gear differences and more social/label rewards. A nice title for example Fylkra "The Curbstomper" Blackraven has no in game effect and is a perfectly valid reward for say, killing 30 people in a match without dying. A 2% PvP immunity piece of gear has an effect on the game balance.

 

I am not saying that gear should be removed, I am simply saying it's a very slippery slope when you start adding gear differentials. I am personally against it but I also think whining about something that you can get in a few weeks of *** kicking is really no big deal. As the old folks used to say "It builds character!". I AM concerned as they add more and more Pseudo-levels this gearflation will create more problems than it's worth. How much time should you have to put in to be able to play with the big boys?

 

The fact that your "hero" is a real piece of dog poo unless he has his super blaster and jacket and boots and belt and stims and... etc. etc. makes you wonder how much "skill" is really required. At some point you have to admit that if you took your gear and gave it to another player they would basically do just as well as you and that is the real sad part of gear based systems. The gear functions as a crutch and people say "damn I need better gear" instead of "Damn I need to learn to play this class better".

Edited February 27, 2012 by Fylkras

[kirorx]

The haves vs. the wanting?

 

The hard working vs. the work-less?

 

Where have I heard this argument before???? Hmmmmmm......

 

Oh yeaaaahhhh, last election... thaaaaat's right!

 

TO THE LITTLE KIDS CRYING ABOUT NOT HAVING GEAR & GETTING FACE STOMPED......

 

Welcome to reality. It exists.... even in video games. In RL, you work your tail off, make powerful friends, and go through the daily "grind" to get ahead. Sooner or later you find yourself behind the wheel of a Porsche at a stop light, while the stoner in the car next to you, who has put life on easy-mode, sits in his beater Honda and complains that he WANTS a Porsche and SHOULD have one because..... It's not faaaiiiirrrrr. Well, guess what, kids?

 

It doesn't work that way.

 

Translated to in-game: You see a guy in much better gear (the Porsche in my example above)... run. He's better than you (face it, yes he is), has worked harder, longer than you, and has EARNED the right to the advantage. BUT NEWSFLASH!!!!!! Just like RL, you too have the exact same opportunity to be in the same position. You just have to EARN it.

Leet is Leet & a Dead Beat is Dead Beat. Funny how art imitates life like that isn't it? Run along now and let your tears go fall onto some other forum. Maybe go find one debating the meaning of a Dashboard Confessional album or something?

 

It is not earned, its just rinse and repeat for gear. It takes zero...I mean ZERO skill to log in and do warzones. You dont have to win, you dont have kill people, you just have to log in again and again and again. You can be a key board turner and still get BM gear in this game.

 

Dont get me wrong i like your analogy; In your stoy the protaganist had to earn it still.

 

You wont make it far in life if all you do at work is "show up"

 

BTW, a porsche...really? That better not be a convertible.

 

I dont think a MAN that is driving a porsche is doing well persay..I shake my head and think, "now that is a guy that cant change a lightbulb".

 

Men do not drive cars like that, strippers drive cars like that.

Edited February 27, 2012 by kirorx

[Izini]

On the second day after hitting 50 I had 2 champ relics, 1 champ off hand, 4 armor pieces of Cent, 2 Cent implants and a earpiece. I've been top dmg on amlost every WZ I'm in and I don't have trouble with anyone in BM gear... so, maybe skill does matter and the gear you need to compete is very easy to get. Edited February 27, 2012 by Izini

[pitdingo]

thats not true.. Guild Wars made it and GW2 is going for it as well.. its called compettetive PvP. All have same gear, access to same skills. If you want to be different, you change your look, but stats remain.. thats it..

 

Huh? WvW in guild wars 2 is PvP and you will not have the same gear, you get stat bolstered to level 80, just like in SWTOR wz you get bolstered to 50. In the team based pvp, yes you will have the same gear.

[ShizuXIII]

It's hard to make a mmo with good pvp that doesn't rely on gear, i mean people get bored when there's nothing to work towards.

 

 

Guild Wars.

Ok, it was 100% instanced pvp.

So is SWTOR, unless you consider Ilum pvp.

 

Gear was irrilevant on GW: you could create a pvp character fully geared from the start.

 

The reward?

Ladder position.

Unlocking every single skill in the game, for every class, without the need to ever touch any kind of pve.

 

Also, pvp itself was the reward on GW.

[Ojoecinco]

It is not earned, its just rinse and repeat for gear. It takes zero...I mean ZERO skill to log in and do warzones. You dont have to win, you dont have kill people, you just have to log in again and again and again. You can be a key board turner and still get BM gear in this game.

 

Dont get me wrong i like your analogy; In your stoy the protaganist had to earn it still.

 

You wont make it far in life if all you do at work is "show up"

 

BTW, a porsche...really? That better not be a convertible.

 

I dont think a MAN that is driving a porsche is doing well persay..I shake my head and think, "now that is a guy that cant change a lightbulb".

 

Men do not drive cars like that, strippers drive cars like that.

 

As to your 1st part: I completely understand but my thing is that in the confines of the game, at least people clock/log in to do that. If it's that simple, then what is people's big gripe about having/not having the gear?

 

2nd: I agree on the car. I just picked it because everyone knows what it is and that they're fairly expensive. As for me & what I roll in (as a toy, not a daily driver).... 1968 Firebird Formula 400 with a 565hp 383. Cost me as much as the Porsche by the time I was done restoring it .... but blows the doors off of them. Up next will be the new NSX (building a garage this summer to house that, the Firebird, my CJ, & one more on lifts. Cool to meet another car guy!

[Ojoecinco]

And the republican shows up. What's funny to me is that there's no "hard work" involved in getting Battlemaster gear. You que up, run around doing everything that isn't the games actual objectives and within a months time, you're 60. The only "dedication" you put into the grind is time and even that, you don't have to actually sit at your computer and play. You could afk out in a corner somewhere after the game starts and still achieve 60. (Kind of like a politician getting into office just because his daddy was there? Yeah. Same concept: earning a title you don't deserve based on the backs of other people.)

 

Even the rich who are spoiled rotten sitting in their Porches still have a feeling of Entitlement and BELIEVE that everything should be handed to them first. They "earned" it after all, right? (This argument also goes to all of the "hardcore" pve guilds out there whining about color crystals, raiding isn't hard, get over yourselves.)

 

- I'm a moderate. I sit on the fence, listen to all sides, then make a decision.

 

- If it's THAT easy to get the gear, then what's the problem people have? Either it's really unreasonably hard or they want the gear instantly & without any time or effort at all? Either way, that bolsters my position in this debate that people don't want to work to have the better gear.

 

- Your last statement I take exception to. NOT because I'm insulted, but because it's incorrect. There's a gross misconception that wealthy people are lazy and spoiled. Unfortunately that's all we see in the media. People who "have" are vilified. There are a lot of bad people out there... wealthy and not. I know many many many people who are very very well off. Only ONE was born into it and even he and his wife still work hard to keep it. Point is that most people who are wealthy have had to work their butts off to be in that position. ANYONE.... and I mean ANYONE can put themselves in that position with the right attitude and work ethic.

 

IN RELEVANCE TO THE GAME: We all start at level 1. Nobody logs on for the first time and is instantly ahead of anyone else. From there.... you play for what you have. Personally, I LOVE that aspect of games like this. Especially in PvP.

[Zyillo]

It's hard to make a mmo with good pvp that doesn't rely on gear, i mean people get bored when there's nothing to work towards.

 

You're implying gear is the only thing worth working towards.

 

20 guys jump from a cliff in basic banded gear into the water, climb aboard an enemy ship (40+). Kill everyone. Take their gear and consumables (consumables being the only real substance of worth) and ride away on their new ship. This was Darkfall.

 

The story is much longer and far more epic than I made it sound here, but the premise is that there are better things in MMOs than gear grinding and resilience/expretise stacking. Those games are out there, however - they are not WoW and don't see the funding.

 

I've managed to last this long in SWTOR because I have numerous alts all moving to or already 50. This game's PvP is a laugh.

[BDutch]

We already have 2 brackets, with a little tweaking the lower bracket could easily be changed into the non-gear-based bracket, (see sig). Bam. Best of both worlds. People can PvP just for giggles, or they can PvP for gear and ranking.

[Daxx-Vosh]

If you truly want a skillbased game go and try DCUO PvP if you don't like superheros wait for TERA.

I don't care about the flames, but those games are / will be skillbased not gearbased.

 

You have to block, you have to blockbreak, you have to time your animations, you have to evade attacks / know when to interrupt and you only have 6 skills you can rely on.

 

The game had some troubles in the beginning but since they went F2P things get better day by day - as long as you don't care too much about gear progression and you're into the superhero stuff - I'm sure you'll like it... what can you loose it's F2P anyways.

 

Plus a bonus to DC - no watching castbars all day, on some occasions you won't even havet time to smoke and game at the same time because you're too busy hitting the right button combination.

[syntxerr]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

Gear comes with progression, Role Playing games are about character and gear progression.

 

There have been games offering what you want to years. Quake, Call of Duty, Counter Strike, whatever. Pure PVP. Also Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 will allow you to create a max level character and get all the PVP armour for 'free'.

 

Have fun there