Ajjantis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It is safe to say that those worrying about an overnerf were indeed correct. With 677 expertise, before the patch my opener without buffs would hit for around 2200-2400 on light armored wearers. Log on to test it out this morning, with the red buff and relic, I see my opener just hit mr. sorc for 1800. But dont worry, with buffs running it will atleast crit for just about 4k. Other ops/scoundrels may be seeing different results, but I am talking about targets with equal gear. But even if we talk about ganking fresh 50's, I think its safe to say the days for hitting for over 5k are over. And before any "you shouldn't be able to hit for 5k anyways" nonsense gets posted, keep in mind that they placed in a 5k hit medal for a reason, and op/scoundrel are(were) the niched burst class. I was initially for this nerf, as I did not find it fun, or skillful, to be able to kill equal geared players within 5 seconds. Unfortunately with this overnerf, I fear that this spec will now join our other 2 in being underwhelming and undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMossy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You fail to mention the bit where its actually now possible to stunlock for 5.5 seconds thanks to Jarring Strikes now giving no resolve during the knockdown.... So yes your hidden strike may be hitting for less but you can now do more damage because they cant react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelijr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Damage might be reduced, but so is the Resolve. You can now stunlock a person for 5.5 seconds straight between Jarring Strike and Debilitate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawler Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i've lost 500 dam on tooltip so above 1k on crit ....bai bai 5k medal ;[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiapollo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yes while possible to 5.5sec stun some one now we must wait 45 to 30 sec before attempting to do it all over again. Edited January 31, 2012 by Demiapollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenonParsec Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I was initially for this nerf, as I did not find it fun, or skillful, to be able to kill equal geared players within 5 seconds. Unfortunately with this overnerf, I fear that this spec will now join our other 2 in being underwhelming and undesirable. What overnerf? Your own numbers prove a 20% reduction in burst, which you said you were for. No surprise, once you discovered you couldn't ez mode stealth around and kill people in the space of one knockdown, it's suddenly an "overnerf." Plenty of Ops heal, and a few will discover the lethality tree for the very first time, and fewer still with actual PvP skill will do just fine as concealment post-nerf. Most will quit, and re-roll sorc, then be disappointed again after discovering sorc isnt a super class, the forum just has mostly bad whiners. The mmo circle of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caultonpos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Damage might be reduced, but so is the Resolve. You can now stunlock a person for 5.5 seconds straight between Jarring Strike and Debilitate. gotta love people that cant play - you BREAK IT and so there is a 2 second stun at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Most will quit, and re-roll sorc, then be disappointed again after discovering sorc isnt a super class, the forum just has mostly bad whiners. The mmo circle of life. Actually, rerollers are discovering that sorcs pretty much are a super class and are superior in every way to the operative, especially when it comes to healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itshotpocket Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, rerollers are discovering that sorcs pretty much are a super class and are superior in every way to the operative, especially when it comes to healing. Agreed, much more complete healer, not as high burst as dps but more sustained and from ranged \0/ just boo on having to re gain all my pvp gear against all these crazy hard core pvpers lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What overnerf? Your own numbers prove a 20% reduction in burst, which you said you were for. No surprise, once you discovered you couldn't ez mode stealth around and kill people in the space of one knockdown, it's suddenly an "overnerf." Plenty of Ops heal, and a few will discover the lethality tree for the very first time, and fewer still with actual PvP skill will do just fine as concealment post-nerf. Most will quit, and re-roll sorc, then be disappointed again after discovering sorc isnt a super class, the forum just has mostly bad whiners. The mmo circle of life. Lol I love when other classes barge in and pretend they know whats best when they have no clue. Lethality isn't that good, and still not as good as post nerf Concealment. Healing is okay, but I dont care for it, too energy and cast dependant. I also dont think a class should be nerfed into being healers to be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustavovalle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Most will quit, and re-roll sorc, then be disappointed again after discovering sorc isnt a super class, the forum just has mostly bad whiners. The mmo circle of life. Sorc = GOD Best in PVP and PVE, reroll all to sorc. THE SORC REPUBLIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes while possible to 5.5sec stun some one now we must wait 45 to 30 sec before attempting to do it all over again. Bummer. So people will actually be able to fight back? That is a tough blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajjantis Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 What overnerf? Your own numbers prove a 20% reduction in burst, which you said you were for. No surprise, once you discovered you couldn't ez mode stealth around and kill people in the space of one knockdown, it's suddenly an "overnerf." Plenty of Ops heal, and a few will discover the lethality tree for the very first time, and fewer still with actual PvP skill will do just fine as concealment post-nerf. Most will quit, and re-roll sorc, then be disappointed again after discovering sorc isnt a super class, the forum just has mostly bad whiners. The mmo circle of life. Yes indeed, I was initially okay with this nerf. It didnt sound all that bad to me. After trying it, obviously my mind has changed. Popping relic and opening on a geared sorc (used to be my easiest class to kill) for 3.5k is pretty crappy. The hit to the damage alone would have been more than sufficient to quiet the operative haters, but the armor pen coupled with it is overkill. All of my attacks have had a noticable hit to the amount of damage they put out. Being able to chain our 4 second stun after our knockdown simply puts us at the same level of other classes. Sorcs for instance can chain their long stun with the 2 second backend stun from their whirlwind. In regards to our other trees, lethality is completely countered with cleanse. And our healing tree is subpar to merc and sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itshotpocket Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Bummer. So people will actually be able to fight back? That is a tough blow. Uh how are they fighting back in 5.5 seconds? All they did was wreck Concel pve and give us a longer stun in pvp 0_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadkhan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I went 44-1 with 200k dmg and 60k healing last night as a level 25 without using any of the skills that were nerfed. I'm not so sure its as bad as people make it out to be. If anything it will encourage players to use more of the skills and mroe of the ranged dps of operative which will in turn invoke more balance in those skills and the class in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prettydancer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I went 44-1 with 200k dmg and 60k healing last night as a level 25 without using any of the skills that were nerfed. I'm not so sure its as bad as people make it out to be. If anything it will encourage players to use more of the skills and mroe of the ranged dps of operative which will in turn invoke more balance in those skills and the class in general. Level 25. Next, pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Bummer. So people will actually be able to fight back? That is a tough blow. Thats the funny thing about a burst class. If you cant kill your opponent in the first initial damage, you probably arent going to kill them at all. And thats why the nerf is such a pain. The operative has no range. It cant kite, it cant take a hit, and it cant control. So you take away its burst dps, and now it cant dps. It essentially nullifies the class. If they had done this, and increased the range in the lethality tree it might have made lethality actually playable. As it is, that entire tree is broken for the Op. At any rate, while it may be possible to lock someone up for a time. Thats not really very helpful when the rest of your targets team annhilates you. When you popped out, killed your target, and could restealth... well.... that was the point of a burst dps class. It would be kind of like... nerfing sorcs dps by 20%, and range to 10. See how long you last in a group pvp setting. At any rate, heres hoping the revamp the lethality tree so its actually playable. I dont mind having to work for my kills. I just mind nerfing my intended purpose into the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligand Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I love that people somehow think that we can stun for longer now. Last I checked Debilitate was on a 45 second (30 talented) cool down. Wasting your one stun to try to kill someone in stunlock has to be the worst way to play, and one of the worst class designs. Furthermore, the stun from Hidden Strike lasts 1.5 seconds. However, the GCD is also 1.5 seconds so they are already out of the stun the next ability you use (almost; the animation time of the ability lets you get off one ability if you are quick). In other words, your next ability better be debilitate, or they are free to run, stun, knockback, etc. and you've basically lost the fight (against an equally skilled and equally geared player). I logged on to check out the nerfs and it is pretty bad. My hidden strike crit for 1.3K, about 3k on fresh 50's (<12K hp). I have much more trouble fighting heavy armor users because I do so little damage. In fact, I was fighting a pyrotech, about equally geared, and while his flame burst was hitting me for 1.8k, my back stab, shiv, etc. were hitting him in the neighborhood of 1200-1600. He then popped his energy shield (which should only be a 25% damage reduction, IIRC), and I was hitting him for 500 (!). It is absolutely absurd that, as a Niche Burst class, I cannot take down an equally geared opponent on a 1v1 fight. We will be doing EV or KP HM, possibly today, and then I can see how the nerf effects PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Me and several other operatives in my guild/friends list aren't complaining, that KD no longer fills the resolve bar, instead of them panicking to get up from a KD wasting their CC breaker they're gonna be stunned for another 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OklahomaSooner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Been saying this since the DAY that the nerf notes were released. Hidden Strike damage nerf is good - 20% is a good percentile to tone it down by. Acid Blade nerf just destroys any semblance of PVE we had, and lowers the damage of ALL OF OUR ABILITIES by a LOT. I cannot believe Bioware even thought of this. Jarring nerf is good now that it doesn't fill resolve. It looks like a 1.5 seconds stun is okay now since we can chain it with Debilitate. It should be 2 seconds regardless so we can hit a backstab or shiv before the initial knockdown ends though, since the GCD is 1.5. I mean, Bioware announced these nerfs TWO DAYS after the Biochem and stacking nerfs. They had NO TIME to "use their own metrics" to see if we really were doing too much overall damage. Its just sad to see that the balance of another game will die because of whiners and morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylittle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorc = GOD Best in PVP and PVE, reroll all to sorc. THE SORC REPUBLIC I'd rather fight a Sorc any day over a well played Operative. ...this as a Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylittle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I love that people somehow think that we can stun for longer now. Last I checked Debilitate was on a 45 second (30 talented) cool down. Wasting your one stun to try to kill someone in stunlock has to be the worst way to play, and one of the worst class designs. Furthermore, the stun from Hidden Strike lasts 1.5 seconds. However, the GCD is also 1.5 seconds so they are already out of the stun the next ability you use (almost; the animation time of the ability lets you get off one ability if you are quick). In other words, your next ability better be debilitate, or they are free to run, stun, knockback, etc. and you've basically lost the fight (against an equally skilled and equally geared player). I logged on to check out the nerfs and it is pretty bad. My hidden strike crit for 1.3K, about 3k on fresh 50's (<12K hp). I have much more trouble fighting heavy armor users because I do so little damage. In fact, I was fighting a pyrotech, about equally geared, and while his flame burst was hitting me for 1.8k, my back stab, shiv, etc. were hitting him in the neighborhood of 1200-1600. He then popped his energy shield (which should only be a 25% damage reduction, IIRC), and I was hitting him for 500 (!). It is absolutely absurd that, as a Niche Burst class, I cannot take down an equally geared opponent on a 1v1 fight. We will be doing EV or KP HM, possibly today, and then I can see how the nerf effects PvE. Welcome to Shadow/Assassin world. Please...get off your high horse already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thefriar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Lethality is complete garbage. Medic is a poor mans sorc/merc. Conceal is now total crap. There is no way to justify the PVE nerf for that. The extra stun is great but its just more time you are out of stealth and can be targeted by the abundance of ranged players in this game. The idiots who keep saying its only two skills that were nerfed really know nothing about the operative and just should stick to playing their sorc. If you are under level 50 and under level 40 valor then you also know nothing about PVP in this game. Stop posting your level 25 agent did pretty good in a warzone yesterday - nobody cares. Glad my Sorc is level 50. So now there will be 6 out of 10 sorcs in your Warzone not 5/10Enjoy the lack of diversity you whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Welcome to Shadow/Assassin world. Please...get off your high horse already. Dont get too comfortable. You're probably next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojiba Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm just going to sum this whole entire thread up with a ... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i can't hit 5k with buffs now, only 4k!!!!!! I am totally gimp now, cause i lost 1k in dmg! ****ZRFKZ0RZ!!! THE END IS NEAR! really guys....REALLY? *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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