Soonerjohn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Where did I make anything up? And yes in pvp a 2 min cooldown, 12 second, 25% damage reduction shield is worthless. Are you serious? That shield kicks ***. Along with power barrier, that is a huge damage reduction for that 12 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Where did I make anything up? And yes in pvp a 2 min cooldown, 12 second, 25% damage reduction shield is worthless. My point was that Mercs have no utility, even with Pyrotech. People crying about a BH standing on a ledge nuking you should be ignored. People crying for nerfs for a skill that an entire tree is built around that is countered by multiple skills on EVERY class should simply not be taken seriously, especially when the class has next to no survivability. You realize 25% damage reduction is flat and additive right? Power Barrier adds another 10%. So if you have 40%+10+25% armor, your damage reduction is now 75%. You have 2 knockbacks, 40-75% damage reduction to kinetic/energy/weapon and can heal yourself. What other survivability do you want? My Shadow TANK takes more damage than Mercenaries do. Edited January 27, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilrasis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The TL;DR to your post is "I can't deal with classes' strengths, so you should nerf them." The "long way up the ramp" in Huttball is the only way you should be going. Using the vents is stupid because half the time it doubles the amount of time it would take you to get up there and the randomness of it prevents your teammates from following close behind. But, continue complaining about ranged classes being ranged. Its actually more of a situation of a class on in a particular environment (specifically huttball) that has all strengths and no real weaknesses. You're more than welcome to continue to make unfounded, snarky comments and ignore the intrinsic concepts of PVP in favor of your blinders, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Where did I make anything up? And yes in pvp a 2 min cooldown, 12 second, 25% damage reduction shield is worthless. My point was that Mercs have no utility, even with Pyrotech. People crying about a BH standing on a ledge nuking you should be ignored. People crying for nerfs for a skill that an entire tree is built around that is countered by multiple skills on EVERY class should simply not be taken seriously, especially when the class has next to no survivability. 25% straight damage reduction for 12 seconds is pretty huge. I know I'm not a merc, I'm a pyrotech, but I have the ability and I'm telling you you're seriously selling that ability short. I get your point about little utility because short of huttball KBs don't do very much at all anyway. I just think that arms is too dependent on tracer missile. The ability needs to be adjusted, as does the rest of the tree so the nerf doesn't hit them so hard. The problem isn't neccesarily that they do too much damage, it's that the one move is too important and their DPS rotation is simplistic compared to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atorob Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 lol i just finished reading most of this, seriously i dont see anyway that a merc could of 4 shot you unless you started the fight with half health, i play arsenal in full champ/rakata gear with trinkets and biochem goodies and have never seen dmg even close to what your saying. for me a 3k tm crit is high, my hsm/rail/unload is where i see my crazy dmg come out. to all the merc haters lol, please go lvl one and see if you dont sit spamming tm. I mean why wouldnt you, its stacks heat signatures on the the target, procs unload, and boosts rail shot dmg. why use another ability such as power shot that doesnt really do much for our other dmg abilities. anyone who complains about mercs in pvp apparently has problems, arsenal is a turret spec, things like cc/los/interupts from enemies destroy the mercs dmg, not to mention the advanced class has no grip/leap/sprint/grapple/vanish which means you are going to spend most of the time sitting in the same spot turreting opponets down until you are forced to move and reset or die. the only people that should really complain about this class are the ones that play it atm, the dmg is too easy to shut down with a simple interupt or moving behind a box/los spot, and for wz's like huttball the class doesnt really bring much utility to the table as far as team play goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithraw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I'm going to call BS on the topic starter because there is no way he got killed by 4 tracer missiles. I play a mean mercenary in PVP (~650 expertise) and tracers seldom crit for over 4k, for me it's usually between 2,8k and 3,6k. OP must have missed the Heatseeking Missiles, Explosive Dart, Railshot and/or Missile Blast (all instant casts) somewhere in that. Possibly something else too because of the Thermal Sensor Override ability. OP is one of those people he refers to in his own signature. Mercs being a pain in your 4ss? Learn to stun/interrupt/LoS! Edited January 27, 2012 by Mithraw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I believe it, just because I know I can do it with a Sniper. Pop your relic and adrenal and with a bit of crits luck it is possible to do it on some Battlemaster squishy like Sorc, for example. Probably it wasn't exactly 4 tracers, but I am sure it was darn fast, anyway. Edited January 27, 2012 by Gaidax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 totally agreed. everytime i run into battle and see 2/3 sorcs spamming lightnight and people attacking the melee i take my palm and place it over my face LoL, I hear ya. And I'm the one stealthy going in the back to stop one of those 3 sorcerers... but then the other 2 focus fire on me and no one is there to help. Don't nerf Sorcs... BUFF NOOBS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugig Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 With the travel time of TM in the air, plus heatseeker's travel time and instant cast time and Rail shots instant cast, if I do it right I can get all three to hit my target in the space of ~1 second. Now I am only lvl 49, so no exp stat yet but my targets in the 10-49 bracket dont have any either, the max crit I have seen thus far from TM was 2600, heatseeker 3400, railshot 2500 this is with 1200 aim, 32% crit and 79% surge. So we can see how a merc can make 3 hits look about like 1 hit if the person isnt paying particular attention, and those 3 hits can take off a fair chunk of life, this when added with the highly visible TM animation and the very audible TM sound makes the ignorant and uninformed run screaming to the forums that because he/she is a skilless twit TM needs to be nerfed. Inevitably those skilless twits are always the loudest whiners and they will eventually get TM nerfed, and when you nerf the core ability of a spec, a spec that has nothing else going for it, then that spec becomes unviable and people will stop playing it, then it will go the way of the Smite Cleric never to be heard from again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Better get LOS'ing....no wait, better interupt....no wait. Better look at this my merc/commando denier buddies, my level 21 with a barely improved Grav round and only High Impact Bolt easily topping charts using only Grav and High Impact Bolt as the main sources of damage. http://imageshack.us/f/703/screenshot2012012712225.jpg/ Sorry but if my Commando can do that at level 21 when Grav round is not nearly as strong as it is at 50..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnightBL Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Expertise is for roflstomping newbies, if you don't have battlemaster yet don't complain when you get merc'd. Simple. Also if you are really getting killed that easy by grav/traver spam well.... I love to but you need to learn to LOS, because like it or not LOS is part of the game the fact that you need to stand still and it can be interrupted during the cast justifies the damage it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Expertise is for roflstomping newbies, if you don't have battlemaster yet don't complain when you get merc'd. Simple. Also if you are really getting killed that easy by grav/traver spam well.... I love to but you need to learn to LOS, because like it or not LOS is part of the game the fact that you need to stand still and it can be interrupted during the cast justifies the damage it does. I'm sorry I didn't know the Tracer/Grav rooted Commandos/Mercs constantly to a spot nor that there are several other abilities that can be used... Oh wait they can move just like everyone else and have several other abilites! I know just how easy Commandos are to play considering that screenshot is mine with my lowbie Commando showing how faceroll they are. Edited January 27, 2012 by Zarthorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilslash Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If you get all crits with your relic proc, and expertise buff then sure you can kill almost anyone in about 6-8 seconds with 3 tracers heatseekers and railgun. Only a sorc can really match that kinda damage. Tracer needs to have a cooldown added to it maybe 6 seconds or even 8, it would stop the spam and force them to use other moves. I have a full battlemaster geared merc, with rakata chest and helm, which i stopped playing because its faceroll. Best thing is arsenal spec isnt even the best, pryo is so much better full mobility and constant dmg, just noone seems to have realised this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 And people are OK with this? I see that they're nerfing Operative since they can kill you in 4 globals, yet we're leaving Merc Damage alone when they do the same thing? I am not OK with this. They are so OP. I have 700+ expertise and I get 2 shot by tracer missle. On top of that Grav round takes 8 hits to kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnightBL Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm sorry I didn't know the Tracer/Grav rooted Commandos/Mercs constantly to a spot nor that there are several other abilities that can be used... Oh wait they can move just like everyone else and have several other abilites! I know just how easy Commandos are to play considering that screenshot is mine with my lowbie Commando showing how faceroll they are. ^ Free spam kill above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrummer Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 To OP: You should have interrupted/stunned/CC'ed them. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No that's pretty much what happened. The BH is a well known pvper and pvp's with the 2P rakata for the 15% crit bonus to it and all the rest of the gear is BM. It was a 1v1 fight because i wanted to test it. he cast 4 spells and I was dead. Maybe they have an instant cast or something i missed.. is that possible? What more likely happened: TM -> TM -> TM -> High Impact Bolt -> Demolition round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourne Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 They have several instant casts based off of Tracer Missile, but it's still very likely you died in 6 seconds. Nah, I have 670'ish expertise and they blow my shield up then blow me up before my force speed is even finished...but I'm a Sorc so I expect such to happen if I stay in his los without cc or interrupts. Really though, I think each class/build pretty much handles an appropriate role now and shouldn't be toned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsane Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Tracer needs to have a cooldown added to it maybe 6 seconds or even 8, it would stop the spam and force them to use other moves. I have a full battlemaster geared merc, with rakata chest and helm, which i stopped playing because its faceroll. You have a full bm merc but you don't even know how giving tracer a cd would destroy the entire arsenal tree? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) ^ Free spam kill above That's your only defence left isn't it? Forgetting that I can simply: -Stock strike to create a gap -Shock wave to create a gap with a slow -Cryo nade to stun -Pop my damage reduction shield and simply DPS race you, a race I'll win. -Kite you using Hammer shot, Nade launcher and High impact bolt. -Get a stacking mitigation shield from using Grav round, so with each shot, I get harder to kill. You seem to keep missing the point. Commandos/Mercs have a considerably easier time beating others with an excessively skewed risk vs reward scale, If I can beat people while purposely only using two skills to do damage with (Grav Round, High impact bolt) and yet it would require that same person to use more or less all there toolkit to kill me..... There is a problem. Edited January 27, 2012 by Zarthorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kel-vin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just shot a unicorn out of a cannon at a flying elephant being ridden by hitler. I have as much proof this happened as you do being 4 shot. Get fraps/bandicam and make a video. If you can't do that I can't believe you. That's like saying you took a 1 foot dump and you couldn't flush then came on here telling everyone about it. I don't want to see picks of something so ugly. Get the metaphore? /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulpp Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) You have a full bm merc but you don't even know how giving tracer a cd would destroy the entire arsenal tree? lol. Just ask him for his name/server, and they disappear pretty fast Anyway, wish grav's crit for 4k+. Trinket popping+bio, I don't see those numbers -- maybe if I faced someone with zero gear. But I think that's closer to 3.5ish. Edited January 27, 2012 by Averran rude comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortobowden Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 That's your only defence left isn't it? Forgetting that I can simply: -Stock strike to create a gap -Shock wave to create a gap with a slow -Cryo nade to stun -Pop my damage reduction shield and simply DPS race you, a race I'll win. -Kite you using Hammer shot, Nade launcher and High impact bolt. -Get a stacking mitigation shield from using Grav round, so with each shot, I get harder to kill. You seem to keep missing the point. Commandos/Mercs have a considerably easier time beating others with an excessively skewed risk vs reward scale, If I can beat people while purposely only using two skills to do damage with (Grav Round, High impact bolt) and yet it would require that same person to use more or less all there toolkit to kill me..... There is a problem. - If stock strike knocks them out of melee range, they're not sticking close enough to you. -Shockwave's gap is countered by any charge, or pull -They could pop their CC break and stun you back -Most other classes have some sort of defensive ability to use, too and continue to interrupt and attack you if you stand there regardless of any shield. -How are you kiting without a slow when more likely than not they've got a slow on you? -Assuming they can't keep you from casting, which most classes can if they look at their stuff if they die to just Grav Round/ High Impact Bolt, they're either ignoring you, only using a couple dps attacks back at you, or being attacked by someone else as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 My understanding of Merc mechanics is that they use tracer missile to add heat signatures to the target and then use Rail Shot to stack damage. Rail shot is an instant cast. Rail Shot has a 15 second cooldown, but it's otherwise quite nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Can't tracer missle be interrupted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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