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Are we seriously going to get absolutely no word on faction imbalance or low pops?


GeLopez

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This is a easy solution.

 

1. Merge Servers

 

2. Create Republic/Empire limit restrictions when you create a character on a server to make sure its al balanced.

 

No response because developers are busy buying plane tickets and bank accounts over seas for the great escape lol.

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The solution is so simple, it's laughable.

 

Patient: "Hey Doc...... every time I poke this, it hurts"

 

Doctor: "So don't poke it"

 

Player: “I’m on a low population server and it sucks”

 

Developer: “So don’t be?”

 

As for faction balance…….

 

Hypothetically, let’s say there's 90% of the community that refuses to play anything but the Empire.

 

How does BioWare change that desire or convince players to roll Republic? You can’t.

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I think a server merger would be helpful with low pop servers. It would still offer an imbalance, but at least the lower numbered faction would have MORE of the lower number to form groups with.

 

bad idea!

 

You'd still have an imbalance and worse, you may have lost servers that were actually sort of close to balanced... unless you want to do a quick calculation for each server, see how many Imps there can be to reach balance, and then drop all the surplus Imps from all servers onto the server with the lowest number of Reps.

 

cheer for balanced servers!

 

Which they'll stay for about 2 days when people start migrating because they want to be with their guildies again, etc.

 

Not really true, if you play the empire and republic sides you can see that the talent was definetly on the Empire side because the Republic side is not done up nearly as nice.

 

The horrible light towers that caused green lines...not on empire side and not sure if they are fixed yet...think they might be.

 

Taxi pathing...way better done on empire side then republic side.

 

locations of quick travel points much better done on empire side.

 

the list goes on and on...

 

Captain El'amber

Level 39 Scoundrel

with a heart of gold

 

Excuse me but how is that attitude going to help?

 

Best way to get players to switch is to make the other faction attractive to them.

 

And that is not BioWare's job because I assume the Rep side of the game they have created would be considered attractive by them...

 

If BW wanted to do so, there would be an easy thing to dorelease the game as a Rep only version: You pay half the price of the sub, you can log onto any server, but your only option when creating a character is Rep.

 

Probably much easier to be done than starting to give Reps boni based on the ratio of Imp to Rep and what not on a server.

 

The job to talk players into switching falls onto you, the gamers...

 

And pretty much saying Rep is *****, well, not helping! :p

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The solution is so simple, it's laughable.

 

Patient: "Hey Doc...... every time I poke this, it hurts"

 

Doctor: "So don't poke it"

 

Player: “I’m on a low population server and it sucks”

 

Developer: “So don’t be?”

 

As for faction balance…….

 

Hypothetically, let’s say there's 90% of the community that refuses to play anything but the Empire.

 

How does BioWare change that desire or convince players to roll Republic? You can’t.

 

your post is so narrow minded. my server was high pop and dwindled to low pop in the past two weeks. am i supposed to predict this? you blame the consumer for picking a server that BIOWARE PROVIDED? like it was some privelage? we PAYED for this game only for it not to be what it calls itself.

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The solution is so simple, it's laughable.

 

Patient: "Hey Doc...... every time I poke this, it hurts"

 

Doctor: "So don't poke it"

 

Player: “I’m on a low population server and it sucks”

 

Developer: “So don’t be?”

 

As for faction balance…….

 

Hypothetically, let’s say there's 90% of the community that refuses to play anything but the Empire.

 

How does BioWare change that desire or convince players to roll Republic? You can’t.

 

Yes. It's like the old story about the elderly man who goes to the doctor and says "I think something's wrong. This never used to happen, but when I sit on the commode, my giblets hang in the water."

 

Dr. fills out a prescription pad for him, hands him the scrip and sends him on his way.

 

When the elderly man leaves the Dr.'s office, he finally reads the scrip: "lower the water level in your toilet."

Edited by Blotter
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The solution seems simple.

 

Open world and Warzone PvP need to be detached from the Empire/Republic confrontation, and relegated to neutral faction skirmishes where both sides are mixed.

 

For Example: Alderaan is now Organa Vs Ulgo (players of both factions are distributed according to variables separate from their Imp/Rep allegiance).

 

People get the PVE/Story elements they want AND get to play in full and balanced Warzones.

Edited by AJMTL
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The only way they can fix the population imbalance is to over bonuses to making a Republic character. Some kind of cool race can fix that issue, but even then how many people currently raiding or those that have put a lot of work into their character will drop it to reroll. It would be a tool to get those that are currently leveling up toons and unable to find the character they want to play(which is my problem, not a SWTOR problem, I had the same issue in Cataclysm as well)

 

I at this point in time don't think faction changes are possible, I have doubts that BioWare even discussed that possibility, this isn't WoW where a Warrior is a Warrior. If anything transfers will be something that we will see progress in this game. Once they release new Legacy races people might want to change to one of those on an existing 50, if the demand is high enough we'll start to see race changes. Possibly soon we might see a AC change. Once that's all sorted out we may see Faction changes coming, but I still doubt it.

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Sorry but I am curious, what do you think can be done? Server mergers? That won't fix imbalance just low pop.

 

Not being sarcastic, I am curious what you think can be done.

 

it could be done in a such a way that does fix imbalance, actually.

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My server is a Republic Server... it's just like WoW most servers are more populated towards one side while the other is less, my server has far more Republic on it then Empire, just gotta find the servers

 

what is your sever, because that's the first i've ever heard of republic being more popular.

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What he meant (I assume) and I agree 100% is that any gamer who feels like there aren't enough gamers of his faction on that server and in turn switches over to the other faction is actually causing the problem.

 

If on a server of 1000 Imps and 1 Rep a gamer starts a Rep, sees just 1 Rep and then switches over to Imp, well, you do the math:

 

Ratio could have been 500 : 1 now it's 1001 : 1...

 

questions?

 

On another note: why should BW do something about the imbalance of the factions?

 

a) this is not DAoC so you don't go 'oooh, Albion (or Imp) is now attacking our Midgard (or Rep) border with hundreds of players... and we are just 50 defenders... :eek:

 

Chances are that some player may gang up on you, but hey, don't like that, only want fair PvP? Don't pick a PvP server... because even on a balanced PvP server you might be out of luck and have a good many Reps on a different planet while a gang of Imps is just waiting out there.

 

b) why should anybody want to play as one faction or the other? Somebody said something about 'market research'... sorry, wrong department, you need to address this with Sales!

 

Because it falls upon the gamer to try and sell his/her faction to another gamer if he wants him/her to switch.

 

If you can't do that, well, you sure you really like playing on that side?

 

I can give you dozens of reasons why you should play Rep... and yes, I am playing only Rep right now...

 

but I will add Imp shortly... not because I don't like Rep anymore as such, just because I have drained the gaming options BW has provided on that side.

 

See, that may already be a way to sell Rep to an Imp: 'Played all the classes on Imp? Done all the quests? Why not try Rep to see what you get there?'

 

First off: Im not responsible for other people having a balanced faction. Its not my job to suck it up (and all the ancillary issues that come from it - lack of grouping/partying options; fewer guild opportunities; failed/cancelled operations; zero world pvp zone opportunity; over inflated prices on the GTN coupled to a lack of resources) so that other players can enjoy their game. Once you pay me to play this game i might reconsider. Until then, if im paying for this, im not responsible to maintaining a faction balance. Should i choose to switch factions this is not "my fault". Player obligation or duty has no place in this discussion. Players go where they want. If they dont want to play one faction theyre under absolutely no obligation to do so.

 

Second: you kinda answer your own question... very few people have anything good to say about playing republic. Not JUST because of the aesthetics, but because of the lack of other players. Its a very big issue that diminishes a persons enjoyment in an MMO. Amazingly you seem to be under the impression that its once again my duty to start hyping up the republic. Its not. i have no responsibility for maintaining a faction balance in this game. Ill go where i like. If i have no incentive to play republic, i wont. Playing it because i should help to maintain faction balance is a massive red herring. We arent responsible for it. We dont care about it. If bioware dont want to do anything about it then nothing, i promise you, nothing will be done about it. People will either just switch factions or feel like their playing half a game and quit. Its in biowares interest to maintain faction balance. Not mine.

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On another note: why should BW do something about the imbalance of the factions?

 

The rest of your post was answered already by the poster before me so i don't see a reason to basically repeat his thoughts. Which I might add I wholoeheartedly agree with.

 

Far as this goes? Why should they? For the long term goal of having the game keep a healthy population and rentention rate.

 

Do they have to? Certainly not. They can do whatever they want and they don't answer to me. Only reason I care is because outside its issues I actually rather enjoy this game so I would like to see it be as successful as possible. At this rate I simply don't see that happening.

 

I'm going to tell you now that if they don't do something about this soon it is going to get way out of hand and the game as a whole is going to suffer. I've seen it before for a myriad of reasons. Normally imbalances aren't a huge deal but the level it is happening at in this game is simply insane and the likes of which I have never seen before.

 

If you care about the long term health of this game and better yet if someone out there is invested in this company I strongly suggest you knock someone upside the head that reviews or manages these issues because if something isn't done about it soon it is going to be too late.

 

...and it is going to eventually suffer the same fate a lot of other mmos have. Could haves, would haves, and should haves that had a lot of potential but overlooked glaring issues that ended up killing the long term goals of not only players but the investors and ultimately the company invested in the game.

 

They have a lot more to lose from this than I do. It gets to a point I feel it isn't salvageable I'll just move on to the next game or go back to some previous ones I still enjoy.

Edited by GarbonzotheDude
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Low pop solution - Roll on a busier server - or - server merges

 

Faction balance solution - Tell players they MUST roll republic or they cant play.

 

1st one might work, the second.... i doubt it.

 

free character transfers, as in RIFT would do the job nicely.

 

 

But if it comes down to "reroll", its K thx bai as far as I'm concerned, its tediously boring to go through the same bloody story again, the same side quests and so on. Much more so than other MMOs as the voice overs are more memorable than text, take longer and if you skip its just the same 2 boring quests ad nauseum.

 

Free xfers would be fine. I've tried re-rolling, its really really bad.

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Let me make a positive and a negative post on the question of the game balance sorting itself out. First the positive side:

 

Clearly the forums and the hardcore players indicated before launch (if you were on the servers in beta you know this) that the majority were going empire.

Not a MASSIVE majority by the way, but a comfortable one (maybe something like 58/42 (just to pull a number out of my heiny). We knew there woudl be an imbalance but it wasnt unworkable.

 

This i think is the picture bioware probably got too.

 

However, bioware have a long term strategy here. So they will be anticipating new players arriving and those new players to be completely unaffected by the forums (and more likely affected by the movies and clone wars). They might even be MMO virgins so to speak and wont really be looking at playing classes or factions that give them specific MMO benefits. Instead theyll choose the class and faction that appeals to them. And no doubt Biowares market research will have led them to a decent conclusion that most of those will head to the republic. Its more heroic, and its fighting nazi's in space. Its an easy sell.

 

So likely what is going on is this:

 

Bioware anticipate that the factions will become unbalanced in those first few months.

The people coming to the game right now are still really the players who have held an interest in the game and followed it through its development. Thus, imbalance exists and likely will continue to exist.

 

But!

 

In around 6 months to a years time, players will start entering the game who werent part of the build up and werent on the forums listening to people scream about robes, lightning, pebbles, hats, colors, etc. More importantly, they wont know theres a run on the bank (the theme of my negative post to follow) on the republic side.

 

Should the game be successful and have a future it will require these players. The playerbase shouldnt be static. None of us wants to see it go from whatever release was to 60% and just hover there. We want expansion and growth. So do bioware. And growth probably means a strong push in numbers to the republic side. Thus, if bioware do try and balance the servers they may end up acting too early and actually causing of all things, an imbalance in the other direction.

 

So thats why they cant do anything yet. They have their own growth forecasts, they have the research on faction tendencies in neutral players and they are looking to offset the hardcore players with the new players so that 6 months to a year down the line those factions will BOTH be healthy and vibrant.

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And now for the negative side to the question of balance sorting itself out.

 

Im going to reference wow. Sorry dudes, but its where i came from. Im going to talk about one server in particular... a server i spent most of my time on in the minority faction.

 

Thaurissan Alliance.

 

Thaurissan is an oceanic server. It came into existence during vanilla, but at a point in the game when the pendulum began switching from alliance to horde domination (in terms of numbers) in game.

 

I should note i was not on the server from day 1. I joined it during the burning crusade when my (orc female!) rogue on barthilas finally got fed up spamming for tanks to get keyed. I decided to make a shammy and the call went out from Thaurissan.

 

Unlike some of the other servers which had relatively stable factions with a moderate horde lean (1.2:1 - 1.5:1), thaurissan was struggling. I saw a post in forums asking for more alliance since the ratio was veering towards 3:1. I liked a challenge so i answered the call. I made my shammy and levelled her up.

 

From the period i started to the time of hitting outlands, the population on alliance plummeted. Guilds were quitting the server in droves (i think this was around the time the IOQ dailies were introduced and the sheer misery of doing those dailys on a horde dominated server led people to decide to vote with their feet). The server pop went from 3:1 to around 5:1 with guilds like armory of light (one of the biggest casual guilds on the server) also threatening to drop the server.

 

My own character was going through a miserable experience being chain ganked. And if i was stupid enough to fight back (and maybe even win), a few level 70s horde would appear to sort me out. The horde wanted to pvp. They all saw me and it was chain ganking. So far from leaving teh alliance alone to get on with stuff and try and help the recovery, horde actually exacerbated the situation. Horde werent just happy to have the run of the server, they seemed to want the alliance completely wiped from the server. (i mention this just to point out that much as you might think empire will give you an easy time of it because its in their collective interest, they wont! its in their INDIVIDUAL interest to NOT give you an easy time).

 

But then something wild happened. Id just hit 66, i was fast approaching end game yet again when...

 

Blizzard opened a new server, dreadmaul, to deal with some of the bigger oceanic servers having too many people. And for reasons that i still dont understand, they actually included thaurissan in the free transfer list.

 

And EVERY SINGLE ALLIANCE PLAYER I KNOW left.

 

The server plummeted. It became a defacto pve server. The horde won the server and completely lost their pvp server in the process. The horde moaned about the lack of alliance on the forums, but they understood why we all hopped it.

 

Instead they complained to blizzard and finally blizzard did the unthinkable...

 

They opened faction specific free transfers to alliance (something i had only seen in the EU game) AND opened pve---> pvp transfers for the first time ever.

 

Initially it brought a slightly more alive alliance community. But this was short lived. Guilds used it as a spring board to places like frostmourne once the lockout on server transfer was up.

 

The server pop never recovered. Sure, it drew players who wanted a serious challenge (indeed my last ever character was (yet another) rogue on thaurissan), but it was all but destroyed. Players like me came, and we grouped together and we spent our time hunting down horde (not hard), but once you got past that you also realised you had higher prices, less access to nodes and farming, less money, less opportunity to raid, and less opportunity to group (until the dungeon finder went x-server). As for open pvp zones like wintergrasp? Ha! You were at a distinct disadvantage in terms of gear and opportunity compared to your rival horde player, and this even spilled over to alts and heirlooms.

 

It also meant that if you rolled dps just so you could survive your leveling process, you were likely fighting every other player in the server for a spot in the few raids available. Indeed, the norm was very much druid or rogue so you could at least get some payback.

 

People who think servers will just fix themselves are wrong. They wont.

 

What you saw in thaurissan is exactly what youre seeing here: as the faction balance gets worse, there are less incentives for people to roll that faction. To the winner certainly goes the spoils in a dual faction game. Not only are you battling numbers, youre also battling every unintended consequence found in the game. It WILL attract players of course who LOVE the idea of the challenge of it all, but they too will get fatigue from poor access to resources, crafted items and drops, as well as high prices, guilds falling apart, poaching, forced speccing, ltd access to world pvp objectives (and gear), lack of depth in raiding rosters and thus cancelled raids when people drop out (as they always do) from RL commitments; endless regearing of new tanks and healers just to get back to progression raiding and a bazzilion other things that all add up and make the experience fairly miserable for someone who just wants to own the empire.

 

What you will see is not the server sorting itself out, but 3 players leaving for every 1 that arrives until it hits an absolute core of players who like nothing else than world pvp and ganking empire players questing. Arp Arp! It doesnt sort itself out. It simply gets worse until it cant possibly get worse. :)

Edited by ippollite
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ippollite, congrats, you played 'that other game', now you are obviously the man in the know when it comes to MMOs! :rolleyes:

 

As to your positive post: do you actually have any idea how many people in game have never posted in this forum here, never been here?

 

So what makes you think that the current population of the SWTOR servers is even remotely based on what people were saying in the forum in beta?

 

SWTOR exceptionally well (we all know the 'more than 1 million subscribers' bit) and yet, how many people do you see posting here?

 

The forum doesn't account for anything but just being that: a forum, a place where people can make their voice heard if they choose to.

 

Obviously a lot of people rather play the game than post here. Or maybe they use another forum to speak up?

 

Point is that saying 'well, all the players now are the ones that were on here in beta' is the biggest BS you could have dropped!:rolleyes:

 

Well, actually no, the rest of your postings are also rather... well, you know.

 

See, here is the thing: the character I'm currently levelling (and no, it's not my first one, it's my 5th) so far I have done everything alone.

 

No grouping, no PvP (don't consider him a PvP character, sorry) and yet, still, I had and am having loads of fun with him.

 

Maybe it is because I like the class... or maybe it is because I can take my time: can't do a Heroic 2+ quest now because there are no other gamers (or rather in my case because I'm not looking for other gamers)? And alone you are not strong enough.

 

Hey, guess what: give it 2 or 3 level and then come back! You may not get as much XP (hello 5 XP) but you still get the experience of completing that quest.

 

Yes, SWTOR is a MMO - but that really just means that a massive amount of players are sharing the same game online.

 

It doesn't mean you need to be in a group! You can play solo... and if you choose to, yes, maybe you will team up with other guys.

 

And quite frankly, on The Swiftsure there is pretty much always someone chating a LFG or LF#M... on Republic!

 

So, you are on a server where there is very little population overall? Was that the case when you started? Or did suddenly most of the population migrate to another server/leave the game?

 

If you chose your server on the very first day of early access, congrats, you took a wild guess as to how popular a server was going to be.

 

It's now 6 weeks later and you are still holding on to that server? 'Stupid is...'

 

Because in those 6 weeks if you had seen the signs, you could a) have switched to a more populated server (just look go to the server selection screen) and levelled your character up there (because it sounds rather unlikely that on heavy population servers you are still just looking at pretty much no gamers on your side you can team up with!), and

b) once you feel strong enough started PvPing... and guess what? Peak hours on Swiftsure (which probably is the NA server with the biggest population) you may find an Imp gangs once in a while in contested territories on questing planets but for most parts you are looking at 1 Imp guy alone or 2 Imps together out for a bit of PvP.

 

Which means that non-Ilum PvP (including WZs, HB) is fun! Or as much fun as you can have based on the composition of the group, and I'm not just talking classes...

 

So yes, it all comes back to you being the problem... I know, I know... you don't know in advance how the population is balanced on a server... wrong!

 

By now BW has done its job and added server forums so, if you are not sure, if you are not in any communication with other gamers who may tell you 'hey, yes, I like my server X, it's not perfectly balanced but heck, we got enough Reps to team up with/kill' (poor lil' you... ever heard of community? Oh, wait, sorry, the forum access is under the 'community' button), then you can actually have a look there or even post the question there! :eek:

 

But let's assume you are not a sad loner sitting in his mom's basement all day (looking out the window of my second floor flat, I'm wondering what that may be like... guess I'll give that a thought when coming back from going to the movies now, with some friends) you may actually be able to get together and unite on a particular server :eek:

 

Can you imagine 5 friends together, jumping onto server Y and building new characters, on Republic, effectively doubling the Rep population there! Wow!

 

Guess what, you just made life for all the other Reps there potentially less miserable...

 

Isn't that a nice thought?

 

Instead you went 'nah, I just go where the most people are which happens to be Imp on pretty much any server, because I like to be save in a crowd...

 

Listen, news flash: this is not a massive warfare game where it all comes down to hundreds of gamers clashing with another horde for RvR sorry grand scale PvP all the time.

 

Not even the real RvR game, DAoC, was that in it's best days, it's one of many options you have in game.

 

So, maybe, instead of jumping from a low population server's Rep side to a stronger populated server's Imp side and then whining here saying that's the only way you can enjoy the game, if you like to play Rep: stand to it!

 

Don't jump the ship because there are more Imps... it's like saying 'I don't like pasta, but there is more of it than that steak I'd actually like to eat... so I'll have the pasta despite the steak being enough to fill me'.

 

Because by adding to the Imp side instead of staying AND PROMOTING the Rep side, you are part of the problem!

 

And that's not BW's problem... unless you expect them to force you to go Rep for the good of the game?

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This is something that has been highlighted on major media outlets like IGN, Massively and Game Breaker TV. It is an enormous issue that is probably bleeding subscribers every single day. Why are not getting any word whatsoever on what is going to happen?

 

They are in full damage control mode I think. They don't care.

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It must be totally coincidental that every person thats saying there is no way to fix this and wants BW to take as long as they want fixing other issues and can keep totally ignoring the public outcry of the single biggest game flaw I have ever seen , every one of those people have Sith or some form of Imperial icon or character in their sig. Play a republic character to 50 and then I will take what you have to say as intelligent argument.
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why would they say they screwed up when it is 100% a player preference issue?

 

Nothing they could have done would have changed anything at launch. Other than make repubs start at level 20 or something equally foolish.....

 

The prerelease hype focused more around Empire.

The classes may be mirrored but there are minor issues (differences) and the overwhelming majority favor Empire.

Empire class quests and areas are generally considered to be better and more enjoyable.

 

And many games have noticed a trend towards players preferring the "bad guys" lately. The developers should've looked at that trend and done things ahead of time to help. They also could've done things to make it harder to create characters if one side gets too much of a population advantage (split the server cap in half. So if the cap is 2000, you can only have 1000 reps and 1000 imps. That way if there are 3000 imps and 1000 reps logging in, reps would have little or no queue while imps would have a long one. Sucks but it would have encouraged people to reroll).

 

Basically I agree that there is little they can do now. They can offer reps free levels, increased legacy xp (assuming it is worth it when it comes out), faster valor, increased chance for champ/bm gear but those still probably would not convince a geared 50 (let alone an entire guild) to reroll. The best bet is a free side switch and a small incentive to use it (maybe first xxx number of players gets a little extra valor or xp or 1 or 2 days added to their subscription).

 

What they could do to help is simply improve the game so that people keep playing. In time, people may reroll naturally because they want to play alts. And do things to just make rep appear better. Work on the stories, the fleet station, small issues with our abilities and animations, etc. Make sure that the game will have some longevity so that working on population balance is worth the effort. And for future games (ones that do not have IPs that basically require 2 sides), stop using 2 sides. 3 realms is the best way to deal with population issues. Even if 1 side is more populated, chances are that it will not overpopulate the other 2. Look at the days of Hibgard on many DAoC servers. I realize that this was not an option here. But several games have come out lately that featured open world combat and only offered 2 sides.

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Low pop and imbalance are killing this game.. i have 3 lvl 50 chars, and with the last one i had a lot of troubles to find a group for heroics or fp because the pop in the planets is very low.. (like 20 ppl only in rep side) ..

this of course is a very discourage thing for new people.. so if bioware want to get new people to play the game, i suggest them fix this problem, because its a ghost town in low lvl planets.. and of course without other people to group with u miss a lot of content..

Edited by jeroberardo
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Let me ask this to all the people blaming BioWare for making the Empire "cooler" (which is utter rot in my opinion). How many Star Wars games before SW:TOR allowed you to play Jedi or the Good Guys & how many Star Wars games before SW:TOR allowed you to play Sith or the Bad Guys?

 

There's a HUGE imbalance there in favor for Jedi/Good. Players don't get much chances to explore that 1/2 of the universe and they're taking it. You're supprised? The BEST Star Wars movie is Empire Strikes Back. Top three Star Wars characters (not in any order) Darth Vader, Darth Maul & Han Solo. Two of which are Empire. Yea this is ALL BioWare's fault.

 

You getting the picture now? Probably not because it goes against your belief that BioWare is at fault.

 

 

 

FYI: Armor models suck on empire too. I'd prefer to wear a level 15 modable piece than lvl 50 one.

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And now for the negative side to the question of balance sorting itself out.

 

 

~snip~

 

 

People who think servers will just fix themselves are wrong. They wont.

 

 

~snip~

Cool story bro. One thing you're not taking into account. SW:TOR unlike WoW there is a reason to roll another character and another faction. Class Story. I already know people playing alts on Republic side and getting attached. Some will stay empire some will make the switch. Give it time. Calling for this at this stage in the game is unwise.

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