Polebreaker Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Regardless of what you think about the OP's tanking abilities, he has brought up a valid point. That half of you high-fiving chuckle-heads choose to miss the whole point is telling, and seriously calls into doubt your ability to problem solve. +1 to OP, it's an issue and needs to be looked at. This. 90% dummies in this thread so far. No reason you should not be able to zone back to loot, WHATEVER the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teldaril Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It didnt happen to me in False Emperor. Under normal circumstances i have a position he cant kick me down the ledge but it did happen in other FPs. Its annoying when you cant loot. Serious issue, should be on the highest priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerekGalen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This. 90% dummies in this thread so far. No reason you should not be able to zone back to loot, WHATEVER the circumstances. Agreed. There is no reason to be locked out of an instance after you have cleared it - we had this happen to a dps on our very first run through of FE - we killed him and he couldn't zone back in, and his quest (illum world quest) wasn't completed. We had to do the entire zone again just to update his quest. This would be avoided if he didn't leave the zone when reviving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashorian Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 regardless of what you think about the op's tanking abilities, he has brought up a valid point. That half of you high-fiving chuckle-heads choose to miss the whole point is telling, and seriously calls into doubt your ability to problem solve. +1 to op, it's an issue and needs to be looked at. ^2345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ok try this for a possible fix... dont click ok on the quest completion. just get rid of it so it stays pending in the top right of the screen until you are back in the FP? ofc im at work atm and cant test it but worth a try if someone has a go later. cause from what i have seen its the quest completion that then turns the entrance red, and also you dont get anything until AFTER u finish and hand in the quest, so leaving it alone might sort it until u have at least gone back in to the FP to get ya gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirranter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 As far as his 2nd point of not being able to re-enter the instance, yes that is a load of crap and their programming for lockouts is incorrect. As far as design of the fights, i dont see the "hard earned" part at all, this is a very easy straight forward fight that shows you exactly who is being targetted by what, if you can't set up malgus for the group to knock him off without you getting knocked off, you're doing it wrong, i've done this HM FP everyday for the last week and its a joke, HK is more difficult than malgus, and thats not saying much. Besides that, very fun story driven fight, i enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upandb Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No need to get on the dude's case about his tanking abilities. The fact is when you're dragging Malgus to the edge right before he hits 10%, he still CAN use his Force push, so you need to line it up correctly to compensate. A simple, friendly suggestion is more called for. Anyway, you can just tell your team not to kill him. One time I got pushed off (completely forgot about his Force push since I had my back to the stair wall the entire fight). I had our second knockback (Juggernaut), so they couldn't kill Malgus without me anyway. This was pre-grenade. So I was able to zone out, zone in, then run back across the first bridge before they killed him, and then we timed our knockbacks. Not really a big deal. His lightning hits hard but with good cooldowns/healer you can surivive long enough for the tank to come back. But the main issue, yes, is that you should most definitely not be locked out of loot, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMatrix Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I do this fight as a tank almost every day, and never got knocked down. Besides, since timing generally means that its not even garanteed to be the tank who's last to have to solo him (which is probably the best time to pull him over), it may not even be said tank's job to bring him there. Just walk parallel to the bridge, and if he pushes you you're fine. If you have someone with a pull, you can also just wait at the last minute and pull him by the bridge while he's channeling lightning. If you're killing him really fast then you will get him there before the 4th force choke, so then the tank has to pull him over, but again, as long as you walk parallel, you wont have any issues. As a guardian with force push, you don't even need to get him all that close to the bridge either, since you can just send him flying from pretty darn far. Oh, and if your damage dealers are pretty good, you can just kill him straight off =P (since he hits like a little girl, if you have damage dealer gears handy wear that during the fight as a tank too...and the healer can probably do some damage also... all that put together means its not that hard to straight up kill him before he goes in lightning channel phase) As a side note, I don't know where that rumor started that you needed 2 knockbacks pre-patch to finishing him off. Force push will send him flying in the pit from across the bridge. Force wave and whatever troopers have will send him in the pit from pretty far too. You only need 1. Edited January 24, 2012 by PhoenixMatrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Duck Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 OP - In order to NOT get blown off the bridge/ledge near the 10% mark ... as you are dragging/pulling him in to position, try to position yourself and Malgus PARALLEL to the bridge. At this point if he pushes you it is okay because you are just blown DOWN the bridge and not over the side. Illustration (ie - do not pull him at an angle): BRIDGE and you (T) and target (M): --------[ ]--------------[ ]--------------[ ]-------------[ ]--------------[ ]----------- ----> (M gets pulled down bridge parallel) --> M T --> (T gets thrown this way) --> --------[ ]--------------[ ]--------------[ ]-------------[ ]--------------[ ]------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) ok try this for a possible fix... dont click ok on the quest completion. Doesn't work. It's already over when that pops up. Easiest fix is to have something to interact with as the last step of completing the flashpoint. This could ALSO resolve a dangling problem with this instance -- just before the final fight, Malgus is ranting about how only he has the codes to stop the destruction of the space station that's going to take out the Republic Fleet that's closed on it. (Republic side naturally). So, how exactly do you beat his Xanatos Gambit? You knock him off a ledge. Errr. Yeah. So everyone dies? Better answer: leave something behind when he falls -- a datapad or something -- that has a recording of the cancellation code, get the code from it, and enter it on the keypad on his throne. Destruct cancelled (or, at least, delayed long enough for the heroes and the Fleet to get the heck out of range), and the whole unrezzable loot loss issue resolved. This should be applied to all of these instances that end instantly on a boss kill, being locked out like this is just bad design. Edited January 24, 2012 by Ancaglon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) The OP clearly needs a lot of work in proper positioning which would completely prevent the 2nd issue from becoming a problem. While most agree, the 2nd issue should be fixed, it can be completely avoided by smarter players. There are many bugs in HM Ops too, but smart players can adapt and work around those to complete the encounter. People in this thread, while some called him "bad", etc some also offered advice in positioning and he ignored it thinking he is "skilled" and knows how to tank. Clearly, he is mistaken on both parts. I, as a Guardian tank, have done HM False Emp for 2 weeks straight, every day. Never died once, never knocked off, and never received my Columi chest. RNG fail. 8( The point is, it can be easily avoided, just play better and you won't even be concerned that if you get knocked off, you won't receive loot. Before you jump on the "you are elitist" bandwagon, take the time to think about all the people in the world that don't have this issue because of proper positioning, then think about the OP. If it was really as widespread as he makes it sounds, they would have fixed it already. Edited January 24, 2012 by Parali bad quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Every. Single. Time. He blows me off the ledge, and I am unable to enter the instance to receive loot or complete the quest do to this bug. I have missed out on loot I can use, and at this point I have come to the belief that it's impossible for a melee tank to complete without suiciding for the rest of the parties benefit. Can we PLEASE get a fix on these heroics? There is NO reason we should EVER not be able to re-enter an instance. EVEN if it's completed. The only thing you need to do is program it so once it's completed, the area is deserted! Instead of making all these people (and I know I'm not the only one) miss out on hard earned loot. When there is this easy of a fix, I am very ticked that we haven't even gotten a 'we're looking into it' Filed a bug report on the loot I missed out on, my friend received it in hopes they could transfer it over to me even though I don't get to complete the quest, but NO they completely give me a canned answer saying it's been forwarded to the team, and do nothing for my missing loot! So there you have it. No I will not tank HM False Emperor for you. We one shot him everytime with me tanking its all about preposition . walk backwards to the ledge. if you do that he will suck you in instead of throw. place your self in that cut out on the pillars and stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so really the only option would be to have the whole group wipe and start the fight from scratch if someone dies until they fix it. i can see a few people not wanting to do this tbh and just ignoring you and finishing the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXGenesis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomfate Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) This. 90% dummies in this thread so far. No reason you should not be able to zone back to loot, WHATEVER the circumstances. Really ? And why is that ? If you fail and then get no loot, while it is admittedly due to poor design it is still your fault for the most part. I would actually like for a bioware employee to say "Working as intended" on this issue. Edited January 24, 2012 by Bloomfate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorizdin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ... I have come to the belief that it's impossible for a melee tank to complete without suiciding for the rest of the parties benefit. While I agree with your fix in general that you should be able to get back into the instance I've run HM FE at least 10 times with my Jug and never had a problem getting knocked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canarith Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Again refocusing to the main issue, being locked out. So, we are going off from the fact that apparently everyone else is able to tank this instance and finish that encounter except you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canarith Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 While I agree with your fix in general that you should be able to get back into the instance I've run HM FE at least 10 times with my Jug and never had a problem getting knocked off. You aren't the only one. Practically everyone in this thread has informed the OP that they don't have a problem of being knocked off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andaman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I had a similar issue in HM Taral V. We barely beat the boss, got "Finish FP" pop-up, and got killed by the remaining adds. We respawned at Med Center and couldn't come back in to loot the boss. It is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratix Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I agree loot should be available when you zone in if the boss dies at the same time your group wipes but that is a separate issue. There are a lot of constructive suggestions for the op. I am going to throw one in but this may or may not work depending on your group's dps. Also, I have not done FE HM after patch 1.1 so that may have changed as well. Apart from the first time we did FE HM where we used two knockbacks to knock malgus off, the other times we were actually able to kill him before he did his immunity phase. I think this has to do with the timing of when he casts his doubt ability on a raid member. For us, he used to emote saying that he is going to cast doubt close to 10% on a player and then would not go immune at 10%. We would be able to get him down to 4-5% when the person actually goes 1 on 1 with Malgus and the player finishes him off then during the 1 on 1 phase. I am fairly confident that if we had not killed him in the 1 on 1 phase, he would have gone immune after coming out of that phase. Now, if this is indeed the mechanic that he will finish his doubt phase before going immune (maybe we just lucked out ./shrug), trying to use it to your advantage is not so hard as it should be fairly easy to test and see if it works for you. Zerix (Sith Marauder/Veela PVP Server) Edited January 24, 2012 by Zeratix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToasterofDoom Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Actually, you do not even need to knock him off to beat him. You can just kill him outright. We managed to do this last night on HM. We pulled him to the bridge last night when he was about 15% but he still had not done is 4th and final personal challenge/duel thingy. So he started with that on the bridge and the dps just ripped him apart and he actually died on the bridge and we won. He never even had the chance to channel his lightning. Of course our dps was unholy, but still it is possible to win w/o knocking him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillBill Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Really ? And why is that ? If you fail and then get no loot, while it is admittedly due to poor design it is still your fault for the most part. I would actually like for a bioware employee to say "Working as intended" on this issue. It doesn't matter if it's 'his fault', he's paying a monthly sub for the game so he should be allowed to have it be 'his fault' and not suffer for a bug. This simply can't be working as intended, there's just no sense in being locked out of an instance for any reason whatsoever. If he wanted to run back in after it was complete and just wander around endlessly in an empty flashpoint, why would it matter? He's paying his monthly sub for the privilege. It's a video game. Most of us have day jobs, we're just looking for something fun to do in the evenings. Spending around an hour in an flashpoint just to miss loot on the climax of the whole thing is not fun, regardless of whether he dies to something he could avoid or something totally out of his control. That's the issue he's complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfox_ Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 OP could be the worst tank ever but lets look at the issue at hand. The issue here is if you get knocked kicked into the bottom and the rest of your team finish the Malgus fight, you don't get loot. It doesn't matter who you are, you get knocked to the bottom = no loot. This is possibly the worst design error and it occurs not just in False Emperor but its especially bad in FE since you cannot rez whoever died. Once you kill the final boss, you should not be locked out of the flashpoint. One of my lessons was a hardmode directive 7 run. On the last boss fight, we all died except for the tank. The tank couldn't rez as he was still in combat for some weird reason. Since we couldn't re-enter the flashpoint, we had to release back to medcenter and were all locked out of the flashpoint as the boss was killed. The three of us were unable to receive loot while the tank got a Columi pants he couldn't use... It doesn't matter who you are or how bad you are. Fact is, most of us are after the Columi token the last boss drops. Wasting an entire run and a day's lockout due to poor design is terrible and is something that definitely need to be fixed. You can call others terrible as much as you want but one day you will be in the same boat if this is not fixed. Thank you, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. I really don't care what others think of my skill, just that this needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykomyke Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've tanked this place so many times and have never gotten knocked off a single time. No matter what you say, you're doing it wrong and getting knocked off is completely your fault. Stop complaining and do the fight correctly. This. You tank the boss until 13%. At 13% you drag him over to one of the ledges and then face towards the ledge (with the boss in between you and the ledge-his back to the ledge). IF he knocks you back you might get knocked off...but I've never had him knock me back there. Ever. So continue your pithy threats, I'm sure your server will find a much better tank to tank HM FE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykomyke Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thank you, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. I really don't care what others think of my skill, just that this needs to be fixed. Here's a CRAZY IDEA. (HOLD ON TO YOUR PANTS 'CAUSE IT'S SUPER CRAZY) Don't release in boss fights. Honestly someone dying on a boss fight is usually a wipe anyhow. But let's just assume that you don't wipe and the tank is about to kill the boss with 3% life left while blowing all his cooldowns. Congratulations what is your team going to do next. A)The tank loots the boss and then wonders why noone rolls on it. B)The rest of the dead team members release immediately upon dying thereby locking them out of the instance. C)The Tank teabags his own teammates corpses for being derps and dying. D)The Tank rezzes the healer who died, who then rezzes the other 2 players that died. If your answer was anything other than D, congratulations...you are not a team player and/or don't understand boss fights. That's right folks, for the mere price of PATIENCE, you too can never be locked out of an instance again. In the case of gimmicky boss mechanics (like FE) you have your teammates wait for you to zone in before killing the boss OR you have your teammates wipe and reset the boss because they are that nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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