flowqz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) dunno if anyone cares cause its swtor and not wow in wow there was a theory that players that get into the instance first / the guy with lead as soon as the first boss dies sets the loot for the whole instance. what i mean with this is player x had chance y to let token z drop. this may be the same in this game but i dunno! Edited February 2, 2012 by flowqz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMcG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 dunno if anyone cares cause its swtor and not wow in wow there was a theory that players that get into the instance first / the guy with lead as soon as the first boss dies sets the loot for the whole instance. what i mean with this is player x had chance y to let token z drop. this may be the same in this game but i dunno! We tried changing who leads/zones in/loots the boss to no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMcG Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 What was this doing all the way on page 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acearrow Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 For some people their seed is glitched my jedi knight leader always has complained about that and the fact is almost always the boss drops the same stuff when he is there for example i missed out on a raid and i missed rakata legs and boots drop so we did it the next week and the legs and boots drop for sages again some people have a glitched seed swap out who leads the group often helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 For some people their seed is glitched my jedi knight leader always has complained about that and the fact is almost always the boss drops the same stuff when he is there for example i missed out on a raid and i missed rakata legs and boots drop so we did it the next week and the legs and boots drop for sages again some people have a glitched seed swap out who leads the group often helps Update on my loot distribution. Our group is the 2x Assassin, Merc BH, and Warrior DPS. With myself(Inquisitor) as the Group Leader / Phase leader, We see 90% of our drops come in the form of Heavy Aim... With the Bounty Hunter as the Group/Phase leader, We saw 90% of our drops come in the form of Warrior drops.. With the Sith Warrior as the Group/Phase leader, We saw 85% of our drops come in the form of Sith Inquisitor drops... Clearly, something is horrendously wrong. But these results made me very curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpminix Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ive had loot evenly distrubuted but at one point i wound up in a group with 3 bounty hunters 2 mercs 1 powertech with me as sorc heals. It really sucks to have only one Bounty hunter item drop in 2 runs what would be better for gearing if the loot in the run only dropped for the classes in the run. IE 3 bounty hunters and a sorc. you get only BH and Sorc gear. No IA or SW. Although that would kill the time sink part of this mmo so we will probably be stuck with some groups getting no loot for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chnmmr Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 My experience of HMs is that loot drops tend to be mostly for one class, and that class only for that run. There's usually another class tossed in there but majority of loot on a run is for one class only. Whether that class is or isn't in the group is a different matter and appears to be random. Something is strange, and you KNOW it's strange when the guild makes a game of guessing the class an item drops for and is usually right. Going to try HM D7 with the exact same group as today and see what drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invoker Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Something is definitely off. We run a full jedi group through the HM's and we're seeing loot for smugglers and troopers only. We brought a smuggler with us and he walked away with an entire instance worth of loot down his pockets. New jacket, new boots, hell he walked away with an entirely new kit. And this happens 9 out of 10 times. We're barely seeing any other loot dropping from HM flashpoints. Hell, even Kaon is wonky when it comes to loot distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andex Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I ran a couple of friends through the lower level Flashpoints on the Republic side (Hammer Station, Athiss, and Mandalorian Raiders) for probably 3 days. I was the one that invited them to the party and I took about 4 different people into the instances, always just the two of us. The flashpoints continuously dropped the same gear for every person that I ran through (whether they were trooper or smuggler or Jedi). For example: on Mandalorian Raiders it was constantly light armor leg piece at the beginning and then a Clan Varad smuggler jacket at the end. I'm a level 50 Jedi Sage. Edited February 4, 2012 by Andex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltin Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 bumping for great justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 11 out of 13 runs is not just unlucky.. It's ridiculously unlucky. If the system is using something static to set the seed, or we are somehow getting the same "random" seed, it's not going to be random loot. It's not just false emp... If we use the same 4 guys, we seems to get nearly identical loot from most bosses. We're talking 2-3 hard modes a day. It's pretty easy to say RNG is RNG when you don't do the math. We're talking a 1 in hundreds of thousands of chance to see 11 out of 13 be the same. Hell, we might be into the millions by now. If it is truly random it means there's 25% aka 1/4 chance for each token to drop. If we take that one event is smuggler jacket dropping and other event is any other jacket dropping we get 1/4 vs 3/4 all simple math really. Multiplication rule for probabilities tells us that probability of this event you described happening(11/13 smuggler jacket) is exactly 0.00000013411 or otherwise about 1 time in 10 million cases.(For anyone interested in math it's 0.25^11*0.75^2) Just for the reference, probability of each of the jackets dropping 3 times and one of them 4 times is between 0.0001 and 0.0008 depending on the pattern of the drops which is few times in 10 thousand cases.(Again if anyone is interested, it's: (1*0.75*0.5*0.25)^3 for perfect pattern, 1 jacket for each class then again and again and any jacket in the end). If these numbers don't tell you much maybe this one could: Probability that at least one of those 11 smuggler jackets was something else is 99.9999761% However what you need to know is that even if it's "working as intended", nothing related to computer programming is ever truly random, it's just simulating random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnisJunior Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If it is truly random it means there's 25% aka 1/4 chance for each token to drop. If we take that one event is smuggler jacket dropping and other event is any other jacket dropping we get 1/4 vs 3/4 all simple math really. Multiplication rule for probabilities tells us that probability of this event you described happening(11/13 smuggler jacket) is exactly 0.00000013411 or otherwise about 1 time in 10 million cases.(For anyone interested in math it's 0.25^11*0.75^2) Just for the reference, probability of each of the jackets dropping 3 times and one of them 4 times is between 0.0001 and 0.0008 depending on the pattern of the drops which is few times in 10 thousand cases.(Again if anyone is interested, it's: (1*0.75*0.5*0.25)^3 for perfect pattern, 1 jacket for each class then again and again and any jacket in the end). If these numbers don't tell you much maybe this one could: Probability that at least one of those 11 smuggler jackets was something else is 99.9999761% However what you need to know is that even if it's "working as intended", nothing related to computer programming is ever truly random, it's just simulating random. What you calculated was the probability that 11 smuggler jackets dropped AND THEN 2 more dropped. This is deceptive, as the chests need not drop in that order. You didn't account for all possible permutations in which these events could happen, making it seem way smaller than it should be. Your answer should be multiplied by 13 choose 2 (i.e. choosing 2 spots out of to place the non-smuggler jacket in the ordering), or 78. Still unlikely, but 78x more probable than the answer you gave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 What you calculated was the probability that 11 smuggler jackets dropped AND THEN 2 more dropped. This is deceptive, as the chests need not drop in that order. You didn't account for all possible permutations in which these events could happen, making it seem way smaller than it should be. Your answer should be multiplied by 13 choose 2 (i.e. choosing 2 spots out of to place the non-smuggler jacket in the ordering), or 78. Still unlikely, but 78x more probable than the answer you gave You're right, technically for purpose of this discussion those 2 other class chests don't have to be the last two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminLeet Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 We run lots of hard modes and if there is a Bounty hunter in the group then there gear drops more often than any other class. The exception to that is when we run with no imperial agent then their gear drops. Last night we had 3 inquisitors in the group with 1 BH and of course the agent chest gear dropped. well here is to 2 more weeks of trying to get my chest. i filled out a ticked complaining abut the issue and they replayed with this "We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you, however, the items that will be dropped as an award for finishing the mission are really random. On the other hand, we are advising you to call our customer support via phone in case that your account has been locked out due to a wrong SQA entry." Of which I'm wanting to know why they are saying my acct is locked when it is not. Is Bioware threatening me saying if i keep complaining about the issue they will lock my acct? or was it just a customer service rep that did not delete the 2nd half of there auto past? I'm not very happy that Bioware response is that there gear is "really random" when clearly it is not. some classes for 1 reason or another are getting more loot than others. they can not arguer with the numbers. To bad they cant keep track of it and post the results for all to see. I was very nice in my ticked i thank them for there time and told the rep to have a great day. Seams like being nice got me no where. I will not keep running hard modes if i keep getting drops for classes that are not even in my group. there are plenty of free mmorpg out there that i play and some that are not free. I will not have my time wasted. The other ting is the rep told me that i could complain at the following link " http://www.swtor.com/community(you" and of course that did not work. I'm very upset with the level of customer service i have received on this issue and others as well. but all my complaining has got me no where. No matter how many tickets i submit they always respond back with not enough info or come up with some random excuse as to why they can not help me. So im trying to complain on the site like they told me to do. if this dose not work i will go to 3rd party site to complain in hopes to get the message out about my experiences that i have had with them in hopes that other will not waist there money. I have not canceled my subscription yet but i think it will not be to long before i will at the rate i am being treated. Hope this helps other with this issue see that it is not just them and that Bioware needs to fix the issue. I think i will start keeping a log of loot that drops so i can get the real % on loot drop. the issue is that i don't think i will be bothering to run many more hard modes till something is done with the drop system. Thank you for reading my post hope eveyone has a great day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 What you calculated was the probability that 11 smuggler jackets dropped AND THEN 2 more dropped. This is deceptive, as the chests need not drop in that order. You didn't account for all possible permutations in which these events could happen, making it seem way smaller than it should be. Your answer should be multiplied by 13 choose 2 (i.e. choosing 2 spots out of to place the non-smuggler jacket in the ordering), or 78. Still unlikely, but 78x more probable than the answer you gave The point being that its not RNG that is broken its the fact that RNG is casing people to be come fastly disenchanted towards the end game. the fact being people will unsubb. ive had the same problem have run 45 plus FP's we have 40 pieces of bounty hunter gear, 3 IA , and 2 pieces of force user. now that every mathmatcian has explained how aRNG works. Let the community explain that people are simply not logging in anymore some classes of maxed on columi and are no longer logging and others are simply disenchanted by not progressing. no one is willing to run those damn hard moes 20 times a piece to get a set of tier 2 gear that is completely outnumbered by a set of PVP gear that is much easier to get once your valor 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzNasty Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) I'm a BH. I don't usually run with a premade, but I've been running HM's nightly for almost a month now and only have two pieces of Columi (Off hand and chest). I've run well over 30 HM's and most of the gear I end up seeing is Sith Warrior/IA gear. I got super lucky on my offhand roll a week and a half ago. It was me vs. 3 BH's. When I first starting running HM's I had no idea what the loot tables were. But as I've spent week after week trying to get any kind of tier 2 drop I don't even feel like running FPs anymore. As of right now I've run over 12 FP's without a single drop I could use. What's the point of playing an MMO for 10+ hours if it doesn't advance my character in any way? I know the FP's so well I don't even think about what fights are coming up. I know exactly what everyone has to do for every flashpoint, and I can even take people on their first runs and be confident that we won't wipe once. I've basically stopped logging on because there's no point until the rest of my guild is read to raid. FP's don't even give enough credits to cover my repair bills. And I'm sure as heck not gonna run those awful daily-quests anymore. Edited February 5, 2012 by FuzzNasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm a BH. I don't usually run with a premade, but I've been running HM's nightly for almost a month now and only have two pieces of Columi (Off hand and chest). I've run well over 30 HM's and most of the gear I end up seeing is Sith Warrior/IA gear. I got super lucky on my offhand roll a week and a half ago. It was me vs. 3 BH's. When I first starting running HM's I had no idea what the loot tables were. But as I've spent week after week trying to get any kind of tier 2 drop I don't even feel like running FPs anymore. As of right now I've run over 12 FP's without a single drop I could use. What's the point of playing an MMO for 10+ hours if it doesn't advance my character in any way? I know the FP's so well I don't even think about what fights are coming up. I know exactly what everyone has to do for every flashpoint, and I can even take people on their first runs and be confident that we won't wipe once. I've basically stopped logging on because there's no point until the rest of my guild is read to raid. FP's don't even give enough credits to cover my repair bills. And I'm sure as heck not gonna run those awful daily-quests anymore. Iam currnetly in the same boat as you only all your gear has dropped in my FP's lol 41 pieces of BH gear. im sick and tired of the FP's now and ive cancled my sub the normal OP's have solidfied my decision as 8 pieces of war gear were assigned to our Off tank even though he has all his gear. every single piece was assgned to him 3 op's in a row.i may revist TOr later i dont know. i can handle bugs, rudimentary boss encounters but i just cant stomach running 40 hard modes to get 1 piece of columi run another 40 get another piece. im not a big alt player and the story is not engaging enough to get me to play the smae content over for 50 lvls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovive Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Experiencing the same problem with our pre-made group. 1 SW, 1 BH, 2 SI. The majority of what we get is IA gear. At most, each player in our group has 1 columni piece (I have none). All of us have a cunning companion, each of which has at least 2 columni gear. Wish I had some better numbers to show, but we are seeing what the OP is for the most part. Edited February 6, 2012 by Bovive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandal- Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Same problem here, I am a marauder and done upwards of 50 HMs and had just 2 Columni items, 2 of my friends who each have been with me for about half are both now full, (a Merc and IA), they both keep coming to try help me but we keep getting loot for them which they already have, it's pretty disheartening to be honest because I've now spent probably 48+ hours of my life doing the same instance over and over, trust me they're not fun anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltin Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Same problem here, I am a marauder and done upwards of 50 HMs and had just 2 Columni items, 2 of my friends who each have been with me for about half are both now full, (a Merc and IA), they both keep coming to try help me but we keep getting loot for them which they already have, it's pretty disheartening to be honest because I've now spent probably 48+ hours of my life doing the same instance over and over, trust me they're not fun anymore. But hey, Bioware says there isn't a problem, and loot "truly is random". ! horse pooey. Something is broken, and they're blatantly ignoring the issue by not responding to threads like these. They can't even give the courtesy of saying "Hey, we hear your issues, but honestly have no idea what the cause is yet. We'll look into it, and we'll get back to you." That would be an awesome response. Instead, we're left wondering how many (200+) HMs it's going to take to get a piece of loot that should have a 25% drop chance. We're left here assuming that Bioware doesn't care about the community. They've done little to make us think otherwise. I used to see this on 'the other game' too. Blues would ignore posts about obvious, game breaking issues about the game, but would respond to threads such as "How do I turn my helmet off?" In a heartbeat. It's all disheartening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandal- Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Truly it's ridiculous, done a load more HMs today, same again, Malavai Quinn and Lieutenant Pierce, my companions now each have 4 pieces of columni, me I have 2 !!!!! I mean what kinda of stupid system allows this to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novastinger Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is a morale killer. I've easily done 30+ HM flashpoints to completion without a receiving a single columi drop from them. It's sad when comparing the amount of time spent in flashpoints for zero result, to the very short (1 night) time to complete normal operations and the resulting rewards. I've done so many daily/weekly flashpoints that I'll get one from columi commendations, despite the awful commendation gain rate, before getting one in a flashpoint. As a side note, my normal HM flashpoint group of friends doesn't do them together anymore, and now I actually see different items drop because of using a different composition of players. Try varying the people you group with while doing HM flashpoints, because I'm absolutely convinced the boss drops are tied to the specific players in that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileithia Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Adding my frustration. The system is obviously broken. Regular group - Cons Tank, Cons Healer, Cons DPS, Random DPS False Emperor (Run about 10 times)- 3 nights in a row, Consular Chest piece (Got lucky) EVERY fight on the ship dude drops the exact same Consular tanking gloves (i didn't even know he dropped anything else until talking to other guildies). That's where our luck ends. Taral V (more times than I can count) - Smuggler every time Malestrom Prison (more times than I can count) - Jedi Knight once, Trooper every other time Directive 7 (about 8 times) - 1 Consular, Smuggler for the rest KuS (4 times / 8 chances at helm) - 1 consular helm, 1 Trooper off the bonus, and JK for the rest. Other zones we've only run a couple times, but the main 3 being Taral V, Malestrom, and FE and we could predict the loot on almost every drop. That's not random, it's frustrating and getting to the point where we don't want to play anymore. I can understand getting screwed once or twice, but with the amount of zones I've personally run and only having 1 piece of gear to show for it, it's beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltin Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 We're never going to get a comment from Bioware, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltin Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Leader A Resulted in ONLY... ONLY.. Bounty Hunter gear dropping. Leader B Resulted in ONLY... ONLY.. Inquisitor and Agent gear dropping. Leader C Resulted in ONLY... ONLY.. Bounty Hunter and Inquisitor dropping. Leader D Resulted in ONLY... ONLY.. Warrior gear dropping. We're able to somewhat control our drops using the spreadsheet we decided to make following the 30 Hardmodes of never having an Inquisitor piece drop (and we run 2 of them.) But, our Columi tokens for the past 3 days are as follows.. Bounty Hunter, Bounty Hunter, Imperial Agent, Bounty Hunter, Warrior, Bounty Hunter, Bounty Hunter, Warrior, Bounty Hunter, Imperial Agent. lol gg rng gg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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