Why would anyone want to fight against NPC in 2012?

[Katarine]

Person Vs Person, Player Vs Player is sooo old! I mean, C'mon! The Romans slaughtered thousands of People, we've been slaughtering people (people Vs People) for milenia!

 

War after war, World Wars 1, World Wars II ... add all those wars up & we've slaughtered tens of Billions of our own race. Name any other species that can make that same claim!

 

It's 2012, we've been on this planet now thousands of years & we're still doing it! Oh, & now people want to slaughter other people in a Game too!

 

We are in the 21st Century & this barbaric practice still goes on with a few people, as a race we should be moving away from barbaric slaughter & into enlightened Civilization & yet we still have some elements of this animalistic need to hunt & slaughter each other.

 

Fortunately it is only a small minority, no more than 20% of the current mmo playerbase - they are just very loud in the forums & thus they think themselves a Majority. Hence why, after millions of dollars market research the game companies make 99% of mmo's PvE Centric ... I wonder what that is about?

 

Eve Online is one such MMO that is PvP Centric & if you log on, at any time of the day, EU Peak, US Peak, AU Peak ... you will NEVER see more than 40,000 players on. Others simply fail right out the door, APB for example.

 

The majority of PvP'ers play games centric on PvP (Call of Duty, Battlefield, et al), log into the Lobby & select a 'toon/avatar' & jump straight into battle. PvP mmo's are not overly popular simply due to the leveling system - most pvp'ers want to log in & start slaughtering other players immediately ... not have to kill 10,000 Rats simply to get to level 10 before they can start the slaughter.

 

If you do not want to fight NPC's no one is forcing you to fight npc's ... no one is stopping you from buying & playing Call of Duty, Battlefield ... heck there is even Star Wars Battlefield for Space Age people slaughter.

 

Meanwhile, most of mankind have progressed ... we have laws now preventing wholesale slaughter of our fellow man. I'm certainly glad we do. If I have a bad day at work I would much prefer to harmlessly vent that on 10 Rats than try to ruin another person's day. If you think War is Glorious, if you think War is glamorous, then you have simply never been in a warzone. There is nothing glorious about seeing your friend, that an hour ago you were having a drink with, have his arm torn off at the elbow.

 

So, ask yourself ... if Hundreds of Millions of Dollars are spent on developing a game, would you research the market first & ascertain what your projected market wanted or would you simply make a game that you liked & figured EVERYONE else would love it too?

 

So, whilst you enjoy slaughtering other players you ARE a tiny Minority, despite what you may think. If you think PvP is still in its infancy & will overtake PvE, I think you'll find that PvP is actually dwindling as mankind grows up & makes a move into a more enlightened civilization ... either that or we'll simply Nuke ourselves to extinction.

[BlueRahja]

If only they made games specifically designed for player vs player combat...Naaaah...that's crazy talk!

 

They did, its called lineage 2. Enjoy being bullied and held down by people who have been playing since day one. Isn't pvp awesome?

[KrazieFox]

They did, its called lineage 2. Enjoy being bullied and held down by people who have been playing since day one. Isn't pvp awesome?

 

 

I play/have played Lineage II & only twice in 5 years have I ever been attacked by another player - both occasions I didn't fight back, I simply asked 'Why are you attacking me?", the replay was 'Because I can'

 

I then simply went onto /General & Shouted PK'er (Player Killer) at <my Location> & they fled, knowing pvp players would come & attack him back ...

 

So, I would disagree that Lineage II is a PvP game. I am 100% PvE & I loved Lineage II

 

 

Eve, Warhammer, APB ... they are PvP Centric

[pEEtrsCZ]

I feel quite the opposite.

 

PvP is repetitive. You fight other players and....what? Get better gear to fight the other players some more? The tactics are ad nuaseum because you are always facing the same enemy classes. You do get much better at "twitch" gaming. And if that's your gig then PvP is for you.

 

PvE, especially instances, has fun story and great set-piece battles. There can be enemy encounters that require you to solve tactical problems, do puzzle work, or simply enjoy the view. It's the good bits of KOTOR with the added benefit that I can play it with 3-7 of my friends.

 

I enjoy PvP, because reading people minds is much harder then exploiting stupid AI of mobs.

 

There's one thing where you couldn't be more wrong. PvE is boring and repetitive, because every time you go to instance, it's the very same instance which you've done thousand times before (mobs are same, their position is same, even tactic is always the same).

 

PvP is not, team composition is different, player skill is different every time. So yes, you play on same maps, but that's about it. Tactic is different, because if you stand against team full of tanky classes you need to play different then when you face team full of force users etc. That's why PvP is definitely not boring, because it's not the same all the time you do it.

 

Off thought on PvP: I wish they implemented player collisions in PvP, because that's major tactical feature I miss. You just can't body block, either to block movement or break los.

[wixxkruppel]

There is absolutely zero reason to do pve after you hit 50 in this game.

 

Credits have absolutely no use.

 

PvP gear > PvE gear, and full champion gear can easily clear all pve in this game.

 

One of the biggest fails of game design I have ever seen.

Edited January 20, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[twinionx]

Hello , i just cant figure it out why people bother doing dungeons ,"raids" etc i mean why would anyone prefer to fight against an NPC instead of fighting other players ?it's not because of the story or because of the gameplay mechanics if you wanted any of these you could get a single player game and enjoy it solo or co-op.

I went yesterday to help some guildies because they couldn't find an 8th person to do a dungeon called eternity vault or something , it was the first dungeon(and probably the last) i played in this game , the intro was a BLAST i got really excited especially the part with the drop pods it was epic ,after that it was boredom, from the first 20-30 mins my eyes were bleeding i was bored and sad , sad because i could acknowledge the effort BW put in the dungeons and could only dream what kind of game SWTOR could become if that effort was put in PVP.

It took us 2-3 hours to clear it ,after we were done i was regretting and whining about the wasted evening while my guild mates were excited and were planning to do the same or another one today....

So guys why do you do dungeons, raids etc ? what kind of enjoyment does it give you ?

I know PVP got a lot of issues first and foremost the gear progression it's kinda stupid giving advantage because of the gear while everyone could have around the same gear and have fun but still it's way more fun than PVE.

 

Thanks for your time , i just had to get this out of my chest.

 

Please forgive my English i'm not a native speaker.

 

PvE = wanting to solve a puzzle

PvP = wanting to play a sport

 

different strokes for different folks.

[radersdad]

Although I enjoy pvp it has been my experience it is easier to get teamwork out of pve play than in pvp. Large scale pvp is too messy with people running around twitching and panicking and pissing themselves even after going over a plan. Just the nature of things.

 

In pve I find I can get people to more or less do their job and not crap their pants because they get targeted and take damage. As a raid leader it is more fun, as a control-freak it doesn't make me want to throw my hands up in exasperation.

[Mephismo]

I feel quite the opposite.

 

PvP is repetitive. You fight other players and....what? Get better gear to fight the other players some more? The tactics are ad nuaseum because you are always facing the same enemy classes. You do get much better at "twitch" gaming. And if that's your gig then PvP is for you.

 

PvE, especially instances, has fun story and great set-piece battles. There can be enemy encounters that require you to solve tactical problems, do puzzle work, or simply enjoy the view. It's the good bits of KOTOR with the added benefit that I can play it with 3-7 of my friends.

 

This about sums it up

Very well written:)

[Philophobic]

Easy: The Loot!

[Rigo]

If killing a player dropped shinies then more people would probably do it.

[Katarine]

Even Eve can be enjoyed by PvE'ers if you are careful. Now they have THE best Character Creation in the current MMO Market & their Skill System (which is real-time & second to none) make it quite appealing to some PvE players & who knows ... one day maybe the PvE players will outnumber the PvP players in Eve ...

 

If that were to happen I wonder if the Developers would close the game down or do what ArenaNet did & change their PvP centric game into a PvE Centric game.

 

Simply said, PvE is the bigger market. If you have no interest in PvE, if you simply do not want to fight NPC's in 2012, then you have so much choice now ... there are so many games available to cater to nearly every taste.

[HELhikari]

I like PvE and PvP - it just depends what mood I'm in at the time. The good thing about PvE is you can't game the system by kill swapping.

[KrazieFox]

If killing a player dropped shinies then more people would probably do it.

 

Actually this used to happen, back in the 'Dark Ages' of mmo's ...

 

... it was not popular & subscription numbers dropped greatly to prove this point.

 

Thus players dropping their gear has been done, was hated, & quickly dropped.

 

Very few people will pay a Subscription n order to frustrate themselves ... if you had uber gear you'd NEVER leave town with it on, as you'd get jumped by Joe Bloggs & his mates & lose it all. Thus any decent gear you'd keep in a bank & only put it on occasionally to 'feel good', before getting back into cheap gear to fight.

 

So, it's not a concept yet to be added by an entrepreneurial game developer, it's a concept that is a decade or more old & failed spectacularly.

 

Hardcore is a very niché area, only a handful (10% or less) of pvp'ers would play with such a mechanism in place.

[Amp_]

To each their own.

[Rigo]

Actually this used to happen, back in the 'Dark Ages' of mmo's ...

 

... it was not popular & subscription numbers dropped greatly to prove this point.

 

Thus players dropping their gear has been done, was hated, & quickly dropped.

 

Very few people will pay a Subscription n order to frustrate themselves ... if you had uber gear you'd NEVER leave town with it on, as you'd get jumped by Joe Bloggs & his mates & lose it all. Thus any decent gear you'd keep in a bank & only put it on occasionally to 'feel good', before getting back into cheap gear to fight.

 

So, it's not a concept yet to be added by an entrepreneurial game developer, it's a concept that is a decade or more old & failed spectacularly.

 

Hardcore is a very niché area, only a handful (10% or less) of pvp'ers would play with such a mechanism in place.

 

I mean dropped things in general. I don't mean their stuff. As in the player killed didn't loose their stuff. I hated those mechanics also in past games.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Rigo

[Luuma]

I simply will say: i don't understand why people that likes to play against each others choose an MMO. If you want competitive games, take FPS or strategy games. The core idea of MMO is more playing together to achieve goals. PVP implicits allway a looser (person or team), where in PVE all can be winner.

[Katarine]

Hardcore is a very niché area, only a handful (10% or less) of pvp'ers would play with such a mechanism in place.

 

 

Eve has such a 'Mechanism' in place. If you are destroyed, all your gear on your ship can & is salvaged by other players ... quite popular in Jita (the market Hub) - you may spend Billions of ISK on an item & if someone is scanning your cargo they could 'suicide' crash/colide into you & then his nearby friends, would come along & salvage all your cargo & equiped ship gear whilst you were getting back from your Clone Point.

 

Eve, at any time of the day (US Peak, EU Peak, AU Peak) never has more than 40,000 players online & many of those (myself included) have 2+ accounts so that's NOT necessarily 40,000 actual ,individual, players.

 

I've experience Corps members who have saved 12 (real) months for a large ship, only to have it completely destroyed upon leaving the hangar - because other players CAN do it. One Corps member lost 2 such ships in this manner & he simply stopped playing Eve.

 

But there are other players, even in such a dangerous environment as Eve, who simply want to Mine the Asteroids - these people keep the PvP alive because these people mine the materials needed to make the ships that players attack each other in.

 

Thus, even in the most Hardcore PvP mmo on the market, players still log to fight npc's (asteroids). If they did not, Eve's market would simply cave in & the game would close. Can't PvP if you don't have a ship in Eve. The market is player driven - pve players drive & maintain that market so the pvp'ers can slaughter each other. New ships needed all the time ... who makes those ships, who mines the materials to make those ships?

 

Thus, if you want a 100% Player Vs Player environment you are playing the wrong genre. Lobby based PvP games such as Call of Duty, Battlefield are where you really want to be.

[Rigo]

Eve has such a 'Mechanism' in place. If you are destroyed, all your gear on your ship can & is salvaged by other players ... quite popular in Jita (the market Hub) - you may spend Billions of ISK on an item & if someone is scanning your cargo they could 'suicide' crash/colide into you & then his nearby friends, would come along & salvage all your cargo & equiped ship gear whilst you were getting back from your Clone Point.

 

Eve, at any time of the day (US Peak, EU Peak, AU Peak) never has more than 40,000 players online & many of those (myself included) have 2+ accounts so that's NOT necessarily 40,000 actual ,individual, players.

 

I've experience Corps members who have saved 12 (real) months for a large ship, only to have it completely destroyed upon leaving the hangar - because other players CAN do it. One Corps member lost 2 such ships in this manner & he simply stopped playing Eve.

 

But there are other players, even in such a dangerous environment as Eve, who simply want to Mine the Asteroids - these people keep the PvP alive because these people mine the materials needed to make the ships that players attack each other in.

 

Thus, even in the most Hardcore PvP mmo on the market, players still log to fight npc's (asteroids). If they did not, Eve's market would simply cave in & the game would close. Can't PvP if you don't have a ship in Eve. The market is player driven - pve players drive & maintain that market so the pvp'ers can slaughter each other. New ships needed all the time ... who makes those ships, who mines the materials to make those ships?

 

Thus, if you want a 100% Player Vs Player environment you are playing the wrong genre. Lobby based PvP games such as Call of Duty, Battlefield are where you really want to be.

 

 

Thats what turned me away from eve. I loved the game but loosing stuff like that is not cool.

 

If they made a EVE carebear server I might still be playing. lol

[Cormey]

I get my PvP fix in other hobbies, for me videogame PvP just doesn't hold a candle to those. I play videogames to relax and with MMOG's specifically; enjoy the game while cooperating with and enjoying the company of lots of online friends.

[Mcclaine]

Answer from a Casual player:

PvP takes time, dedication and most importantly skill. Have a good day, when your reaction times are at their peek and you'll enjoy it. Have a bad day and you'll get ownd and all will suck.

PvE can be enjoyed no matter how you feel. Bad day: just do a few quests. Good day: do some FP's. Great day: Nuke a Op.

[HELhikari]

Actually this used to happen, back in the 'Dark Ages' of mmo's ...

 

... it was not popular & subscription numbers dropped greatly to prove this point.

 

 

Aye. Corpse looting is a very hardcore approach to PvP and not popular amongst the vast majority of people; it's a niche thing. I seem to remember some later games having separate PvP and Harcore PvP servers, the latter supporting corpse looting.

[Kesari]

Hello , i just cant figure it out why people bother doing dungeons ,"raids" etc i mean why would anyone prefer to fight against an NPC

 

Why would anyone want to fight against another player with 15k hp? Because you need to `wtfpwn` him to get the confidence you are better than the opposing player, completely ignoring the fact that PvP is anything but balanced, and that gear and class mechanics give you advance over the other player?

 

Welcome to MMOs, where everyone worse than you is a noob and anyone better than you has no life.