Wolfeisberg Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I hope it is true, but on another forum that I visit that has a general gaming section, one of the posters their stated they got a 24 hour ban for exploiting. He said that he would wait for people to start doing their aoe's and he would enter them while stealthed to force the other player to PvP flag and he would kill him. He said Bioware told him it was an exploit, he didn't listen to the first warning, so he kept on doing it till he got the 24 hour ban. I know I will report anyone who uses this exploit. I did not join a PvE server to have to change my way of playing to account for PvP. I did not join a PvE server so that I have to keep watching my back from other players wanting to gank me. Edited January 25, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkeos Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 In RL you call those people lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I don't understand the big deal here. This happens in the other big mmo too with aoe's. It's in every mmo with some kind of flag system to pvp. Also someone suggested you cant pvp until you turn on /pvp, but then you could attack guards and whatnot (which are npcs that are attacking you) without any repricussions etc. Of course not. You would still flag (with that countdown warning) when entering enemy quest areas. And the guards are instant death most (maybe all) of those areas anyhow. As to the other part of your message, what part of "I want no part of PvP ever, otherwise I would have just ROLLED on a PvP server" is giving you difficulty? Edited January 25, 2012 by VorpalK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? The only way around it that I can see is to require you to switch on your own PvP flag before you're able to attack the flagged player - but that's a clunky extra step that would take the spontaneity out of seeing someone in your hub area and deciding to punish them. Or worse, seeing them attacking a fellow player or your friend and being unable to defend them without going rightclicking and going through sub-menus. For some, that extra step might be the lesser of two evils (and some might even see it as completely fine) but I know that I personally enjoy the risk/reward of being flagged because I've been snooping around somewhere I shouldn't and that would be vastly mitigated if I knew I had the time to mount up before any Republic players manage to find the menu option. Anyway, not saying either is right, just food for thought. Stop acting like you have to go through some complex ritual to flag for PvP. Typing /PVP will instantly flag you for PvP. You don't have to right click on anything or go through any submenus. Either way, this is a PvE server where the rules specifically state that PvP is supposed to be something mutually consented to. Having to flag yourself to express consent is certainly a reasonable "extra step" on a PvE server. There is no reason in the world that people who want no part of PvP should have to spend their time worrying about whether some unintentional act on their part or some griefer exploiting the mechanics is going to flag them and force them into unconsensual PvP. The fact that you are too lazy to type four characters to flag yourself does not change that. It takes all of one GCD to do it, and it is not some unreasonable burden on you since you rolled on a server where PvP must be consensual. If you want to be able to jump into PvP at any given moment without having to worry about your flagged state, you are welcome to roll on any of the numerous PvP servers available. Even without that, if you had bothered actually reading what people have said numerous times, this is not some new mechanic people are asking for. Many games have solved this problem, and examples have been given. Some games automatically block indirect AoE damage to PvP flagged players from a non-flagged player. This still allows you to directly target a flagged player. Other games (Rift has been cited multiple times) take the extra step to have game options you can check or uncheck to prevent you from taking any action that could autoflag you for PvP. In some cases, this is checked by default, In other cases (again, Rift), you have to set that option. It is simply a straw argument to suggest that this is some kind of burden on you if you want to engage a flagged player or that this is some kind of puzzle that has never been solved. There is no "lesser of two evils" here. You can PvP if you want. There is no reason that someone who doesn't want to should have to go out of their way to avoid it simply because you are too lazy to flag yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Think of pcs as just smart npc pats you gotta watch out for. No. I'd rather not have to think of them at all. I enjoy PvP, but in games like WWII Online. When I play a game like SWTOR, I don't participate in PvP. All you PvPers who do this stupid ganking ***** are only hurting your (our) playstyle. You cry that there aren't more PvP opponents, but then gank people and you wonder why? You've created a poor reputation for yourself, and it's no wonder people don't want to participate. Grow the eff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't understand the big deal here. This happens in the other big mmo too with aoe's. It's in every mmo with some kind of flag system to pvp. Also someone suggested you cant pvp until you turn on /pvp, but then you could attack guards and whatnot (which are npcs that are attacking you) without any repricussions etc. Are people that upset to die in this game where you lose absolutely nothing? I never bought the whole "its so easier to level on a pve server" nonsense either even in wow. Think of pcs as just smart npc pats you gotta watch out for. No it does not, and no it is not. Read the thread, your mythical claim has been debunked multiple times. Kthnxbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I hope it is true, but on another forum that I visit that has a general gaming section, one of the posters their stated they got a 24 hour ban for exploiting. He said that he would wait for people to start doing their aoe's and he would enter them while stealthed to force the other player to PvP flag and he would kill him. He said Bioware told him it was an exploit, he didn't listen to the first warning, so he kept on doing it till he got the 24 hour ban. I know I will report anyone who uses this exploit. I did not join a PvE server to have to change my way of playing to account for PvP. I did not join a PvE server so that I have to keep watching my back from other players wanting to gank me. I hope it's true too. I tend to doubt it though, I mean if that's the case, why wouldn't someone at Bioware let us know. They are completely ignoring us, and so presumably ignoring the issue. If they think if they ignore it it'll go away, they're wrong, the problem will remain and the only thing going away will be players. I know I sure will go away and will be doing so when this month's subscription expires if they don't at least acknowledge the problem or tell us that it's working as intended. Silence is not cutting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Says the likely griefer.... Edited January 25, 2012 by Trineda removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Says the likely griefer.... One of my favorite activities is to jump into the AOE of Empire players to flag them, then just stand there and watch them. Don't attack them while they're fighting mobs...just observe. They start to get all paranoid, and sometimes even attack me. Then it's self defense. Edited January 25, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I had it happen to me too. I reported both offenders for griefing. Not sure, it made a difference but it made me feel better. They seriously need to do something about this. I rolled on a PvE server to avoid this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Are people that upset to die in this game where you lose absolutely nothing? It has nothing to do with what you lose. Some of the people on PVE servers have zero interest in PVE. They just want to quest and craft and hang out with their friends, etc without worrying about if the skill they just used might unintentionally flag them for PVP because some clown was hiding in stealth in the middle of the mob they were planning to attack. Let them do it in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) And when said player IS careful because he made sure nobody was around before firing off his AoE? Ok, then his mobs are his, and he didn't hit anybody except the invisible opposite-aligned faction player standing in the middle of those mobs. Wait a minute... that goes back to the crux of the issue, doesn't it? And the response will be "then don't use AoEs where players could be invisible," which only creates the same circle argument. Edited January 25, 2012 by Trineda removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 And when said player IS careful because he made sure nobody was around before firing off his AoE? Ok, then his mobs are his, and he didn't hit anybody except the invisible opposite-aligned faction player standing in the middle of those mobs. Wait a minute... that goes back to the crux of the issue, doesn't it? And the response will be "then don't use AoEs where players could be invisible," which only creates the same circle argument. Then you revive exactly where you died and continue on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 One of my favorite activities is to jump into the AOE of Empire players to flag them, then just stand there and watch them. Don't attack them while they're fighting mobs...just observe. They start to get all paranoid, and sometimes even attack me. Then it's self defense.Afraid to roll on a PVP server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 And when said player IS careful because he made sure nobody was around before firing off his AoE? Ok, then his mobs are his, and he didn't hit anybody except the invisible opposite-aligned faction player standing in the middle of those mobs. Wait a minute... that goes back to the crux of the issue, doesn't it? And the response will be "then don't use AoEs where players could be invisible," which only creates the same circle argument. It is a pathetically weak argument, I agree. These griefers only give PvP a bad name, thus hurting its acceptance among a larger audience. If they weren't so mentally impaired, they might see the bigger picture, but I hold out no hope for them. Thus the need for game mechanics to save them from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaru Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Okay I play on a RP-PVP server, so to me this just seems so blown out of proportion and ridiculous Yeah, I realize it's a PVP server, and I realize I made that decision, but seriously why does it matter if ONE TIME you get flagged and die? It takes a total of 1 minute to respawn or get back to your body and you don't even get damaged gear. It's REALLY not that big of a deal and your whining about it is hilarious to be honest Edited January 25, 2012 by Esaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadEdward Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 While there are certain ways to exploit the system, how would you actually attack someone who is flagged if you couldn't damage them? If AOEs didn't do damage to opposing players, what good would they be? There are certain game mechanics which just can't be changed without completely breaking the game, this is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbledum Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 there's a special subset of PvP'ers that enjoy pvp on an mmo. they dont like fair fights or balance. now lets look at the sort of individual that likes to take part in this sort of behaviour. 1. they need 20 level advantage 2. they need to play the OP class 3. they need to massively out gear you. 4. they need to have the drop on you. 5. they need skill to take a place behind class, level and gear 6. going around griefing like this is the best use of their time. you shouldn't get angry you should get amused just point laugh and remember they may have cost you 30 seconds of res/run time but they are going to be them for the rest of their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Okay I play on a RP-PVP server, so to me this just seems so blown out of proportion and ridiculous Yeah, I realize it's a PVP server, and I realize I made that decision, but seriously why does it matter if ONE TIME you get flagged and die? It takes a total of 1 minute to respawn or get back to your body and you don't even get damaged gear. It's REALLY not that big of a deal and your whining about it is hilarious to be honest Carebears gonna hate OPVP I suppose It is not blown out of proportion. OPVP's are gonna hate Carebears I suppose. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Okay I play on a RP-PVP server, so to me this just seems so blown out of proportion and ridiculous Yeah, I realize it's a PVP server, and I realize I made that decision, but seriously why does it matter if ONE TIME you get flagged and die? It takes a total of 1 minute to respawn or get back to your body. It's REALLY not that big of a deal and your whining about it is hilarious to be honest Carebears gonna hate OPVP I suppose How about you stop telling others how they should feel, eh? It's their game, their money. They want to play a particular way. They don't want to be objects of your amusement. Period. Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) (edit: Looks like the post I quoted and was responding to got deleted) No, a "normal" player who wants to pvp wouldn't have to resort to tricking people who aren't interested into paying attention to them. So tell me Mr Normal, can you see stealthed players and therefore can be more "careful?" Does being "more observant" reveal them to you? Whiney? It's a 'PvE" server!! What part of that is so difficult to understand? A complaint of "I didn't WANT to PvP and he FORCED ME TO!" is a perfectly valid complaint on a "PvE" server no matter how much it may interfere with your ganking of people who weren't expecting it and can't win because they're lower level and engaged with a bunch of mobs, and really wanted nothing to do with you in the first place. Do yourself a favor and go read the description of "PvE" server on the server select page. This is not working as per that description and either needs to be changed or the description need to be changed from "PvE" to "PvP unless you're careful & crafty enough to outsmart the game mechanics and the griefers." Then do yourself another favor and read all the posts. Maybe then you'll see that this goes beyond just being 'observant." Or, omg, maybe see that someone elses concerns might actually have some validity. Players these days.... Edited January 25, 2012 by VarnieTsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Then you revive exactly where you died and continue on your way. And when it happens repeatedly because the guy who killed you is invisible? Two deaths, and you're already at a 30-second revive timer - one more and you're waiting a minute and a half. That is NOT a solution, I'm sorry. It's as much a solution as me saying "Well, if I right-click his portrait, I can turn off his PvP flag mid-fight." It's harassment of a player by forcing him into PvP play when he does not wish to play PvP, and has taken steps to ensure he does not get engaged into PvP play unwillingly. It is not consensual between both parties, and it may be exploiting a broken rule in the game's code to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 there's a special subset of PvP'ers that enjoy pvp on an mmo. they dont like fair fights or balance. now lets look at the sort of individual that likes to take part in this sort of behaviour. 1. they need 20 level advantage 2. they need to play the OP class 3. they need to massively out gear you. 4. they need to have the drop on you. 5. they need skill to take a place behind class, level and gear 6. going around griefing like this is the best use of their time. you shouldn't get angry you should get amused just point laugh and remember they may have cost you 30 seconds of res/run time but they are going to be them for the rest of their lives This is pretty awesome. Well said! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Afraid to roll on a PVP server? Not my fault my friends wanted PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingace Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 While there are certain ways to exploit the system, how would you actually attack someone who is flagged if you couldn't damage them? If AOEs didn't do damage to opposing players, what good would they be? There are certain game mechanics which just can't be changed without completely breaking the game, this is one of them. Easy. Just type /pvp and voila. you can now damage the enemy. Is it really game breaking to you on a PvE server to have to take 2 seconds to type that to engage in consensual pvp?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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