Pewpewtrooper Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm on a PvP server I would love to see an opposing faction, I only ever see Rep in Illum. Why is all the open world pvp on pve servers /cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If this is on a PVE server, than I agree with the OP. I play on a PVP server and expect this type of play, but if someone rolls on a PVE server, PVP should be optional. I just wish PVP was more important and widespread on my PVP server! What is the difference between PVP and PVE servers then? The difference is "suppose' to be, you have the "option" to PVP on a PVE server. But when you can "accidently" be flagged or "tricked" into flagging by the opposing faction player..,then it is not really "optional". And this whole thread is about a issue on PVE servers. PVP servers, this would not be a issue or should it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) If this is on a PVE server, than I agree with the OP. I play on a PVP server and expect this type of play, but if someone rolls on a PVE server, PVP should be optional. I just wish PVP was more important and widespread on my PVP server! What is the difference between PVP and PVE servers then? Well lets see, in SWTOR, The PVP servers are where you get skilled PVP players who want a challenge. The PVE servers have 3 general types of players.... 1) PVE types who spend most of their time attempting to keep themselves unflagged while they quest, 2) skilled PVP players who indulge in PVP at times of their choosing in the warzones and with other consenting people, and 3) no-talent people with no pvp skills or morals who spend their time tricking unsuspecting PVE people below their level who are currently fighting mobs into getting flagged so they can attack them and be guaranteed a win. <edited to make paragraphs> Edited January 25, 2012 by VarnieTsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbird Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Pretty sure this is the end of the world. Didn't the mayans predict this or something with their calendar? How about if I bring my 50 Operative to the area and constantly follow you around flagging/killing you unless you give my Republic alt 100,000 credits? Not the end of the world, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That's precisely what we're doing here: we're on the forums asking Bioware - the highest level guys around - to come and take care of the problem. Unfortunately, they seem to have us on /ignore. Well. That, or they're having a Pong tournament. Who knows. LOL. So true, so true. One has to wonder just WHY are we on /ignore though. Doesn't bode well for what the answer might be. Let's go Bioware. Stephen Reid? Georg Zoeller? Someone? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm on a PvP server I would love to see an opposing faction, I only ever see Rep in Illum. Why is all the open world pvp on pve servers /cry Well, I wouldn't exactly call it open world "PVP." Open world "PVP" would be people wanting a challenge. lol. This is more like open world "guaranteed-win-gankage" being instigated by no-talent people who probably can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and would never survive on a PVP server. If you're on a PVP server, I'd guess you're looking for the former rather than the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retadine Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ya it's griefing but I think for the OP, if you're seeing flagged Imps on a PvE server, you must know that they're up to no good. I had a similar thing happen to me on Tat and I just played around it. Switched off my pet's AoE abilities, avoided using any of my own AoE abilities and just watched those imps stand there for a few mins. Don't be a victim. Victimize them aggressors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublehelix Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I am still waiting on an official answer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ya it's griefing but I think for the OP, if you're seeing flagged Imps on a PvE server, you must know that they're up to no good. I had a similar thing happen to me on Tat and I just played around it. Switched off my pet's AoE abilities, avoided using any of my own AoE abilities and just watched those imps stand there for a few mins. Don't be a victim. Victimize them aggressors! If I saw a flagged Imperial near me, hanging aroud me, obvious he's waiting for me to go "uh-oh!" and accidentalyl flag myself for an easy kill..... I'd mess with him. Dance for him, salute him, wave hello, do some custom emotes, that sort of thing. Hell, maybe even try to strike up a conversation with him, and see what happens. 1. He gets mad and cusses me out. Well, he knows what he needs to do to stop seeing me dance and wave at nothing. 2. He starts an actual conversation. Cool, might be a cool guy then, and I'd offer any help he might need should he roll a Republic guy. I'm a Gray Jedi, after all, and don't care about these "rules" and "regulations" people have. I do what I think is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ya it's griefing but I think for the OP, if you're seeing flagged Imps on a PvE server, you must know that they're up to no good. I had a similar thing happen to me on Tat and I just played around it. Switched off my pet's AoE abilities, avoided using any of my own AoE abilities and just watched those imps stand there for a few mins. Don't be a victim. Victimize them aggressors! Unfortunately, that only works if they're not stealthed, or if they're not on a speeder out of your perception range when you engage the mobs. No, the only way to completely avoid it is to completely alter your playstyle. Never use aoes, never use auto target, etc. Why should we have to play that way on a pve server? Why should other players have the ability to force these options on us, either pvp with them (or more accurately, be ganked by them since we're also fighting a bunch of mobs and they're usually way higher level), at their whim or alter our playstyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? The only way around it that I can see is to require you to switch on your own PvP flag before you're able to attack the flagged player - but that's a clunky extra step that would take the spontaneity out of seeing someone in your hub area and deciding to punish them. Or worse, seeing them attacking a fellow player or your friend and being unable to defend them without going rightclicking and going through sub-menus. For some, that extra step might be the lesser of two evils (and some might even see it as completely fine) but I know that I personally enjoy the risk/reward of being flagged because I've been snooping around somewhere I shouldn't and that would be vastly mitigated if I knew I had the time to mount up before any Republic players manage to find the menu option. Anyway, not saying either is right, just food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyler Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Pretty sure this is the end of the world. Didn't the mayans predict this or something with their calendar? Actually, this is a game breaker for people that don't like to PvP. Shouldn't happen on the PvE servers. If you can be tricked into PvP, than the advertisements are wrong and BW is misleading subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 but I know that I personally enjoy the risk/reward of being flagged because I've been snooping around somewhere I shouldn't and that would be vastly mitigated if I knew I had the time to mount up before any Republic players manage to find the menu option.So why'd you roll on a PVE server? Should come to the PVP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If I saw a flagged Imperial near me, hanging aroud me, obvious he's waiting for me to go "uh-oh!" and accidentalyl flag myself for an easy kill..... I'd mess with him. Dance for him, salute him, wave hello, do some custom emotes, that sort of thing. Hell, maybe even try to strike up a conversation with him, and see what happens. 1. He gets mad and cusses me out. Well, he knows what he needs to do to stop seeing me dance and wave at nothing. 2. He starts an actual conversation. Cool, might be a cool guy then, and I'd offer any help he might need should he roll a Republic guy. I'm a Gray Jedi, after all, and don't care about these "rules" and "regulations" people have. I do what I think is right. Yeah, but see, in this scenario he's still accomplished a large part of what he wants which is to make you stop doing what you wanted to do and entertain him. He's got your attention which is probably the main thing he wanted. I've seen this all too much over the years and it always reminds me of my grandkids trying to get attention. They'll do whatever it takes to get attention, even if they have to resort to negative behavior. I see no reason to encourage this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? The only way around it that I can see is to require you to switch on your own PvP flag before you're able to attack the flagged player - but that's a clunky extra step that would take the spontaneity out of seeing someone in your hub area and deciding to punish them. Or worse, seeing them attacking a fellow player or your friend and being unable to defend them without going rightclicking and going through sub-menus. For some, that extra step might be the lesser of two evils (and some might even see it as completely fine) but I know that I personally enjoy the risk/reward of being flagged because I've been snooping around somewhere I shouldn't and that would be vastly mitigated if I knew I had the time to mount up before any Republic players manage to find the menu option. Anyway, not saying either is right, just food for thought. If ever other game on the market has been able to accomplish this then surely swtor devs can also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarbonn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The fact that there's been no response from the Devs indicates to me that they have no solution for this and hope the problem will just go away without them having to deal with it. It's the wrong approach, in my opinion, because this is exactly the kind of problem in a game that will immediately cause a pve player to unsubscribe. Getting ganked by someone when you have no intentions of doing any pvp (I know people who have ZERO intention of doing pvp in this game) is one of those things that causes such anger in a player, and as we know, anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. And suffering leads to unsubscribing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ignore the trolls. This does need to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If this is on a PVE server, than I agree with the OP. I play on a PVP server and expect this type of play, but if someone rolls on a PVE server, PVP should be optional. I just wish PVP was more important and widespread on my PVP server! What is the difference between PVP and PVE servers then? The problem is you have the PvP cowards hiding on the PvE servers in order to grief people at their leisure as opposed to actually playing PvP with the big boys and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Most MMOs that care about their customers don't let this happen. You should have to target another player and attack them to flag PVP. AOE attacks should not function in this way. Its just another oversight from the programmers that needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roane Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? It's actually rather simple. The opposing faction player must be specifically targeted to be hit by an unflagged player. The problem occurs when AoE hits the flagged player (or his companion maybe?). If I am targeting a mob or targeting nothing (as for much AoE) and am not flagged, players should not be hit. There are more complicated systems which introduce more safeguards against other exploits (standing on top of an NPC so someone right-clicks on the griefer by accident, for example), but this one targeting check would help quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So why'd you roll on a PVE server? Should come to the PVP servers. Simply through wanting to be with my friends from WoW, really. My guild is made up of people who are all from the same WoW server (albeit in a few different guilds there). Since I didn't get the game until after Christmas, the choice had already been made pretty much. I do have a Republic side character on a PvP server that I intend to level at some point. Speaking for others, I'd imagine some would like the option of flagging themselves (or knowingly going into hostile territory to explore, at least) but don't necessarily want to have to worry about it all the time. That's not really me (I don't mind being ganked occasionally and I can give as good as I get ) but I can see how it might appeal to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's actually rather simple. The opposing faction player must be specifically targeted to be hit by an unflagged player. The problem occurs when AoE hits the flagged player (or his companion maybe?). If I am targeting a mob or targeting nothing (as for much AoE) and am not flagged, players should not be hit. There are more complicated systems which introduce more safeguards against other exploits (standing on top of an NPC so someone right-clicks on the griefer by accident, for example), but this one targeting check would help quite a bit. Hmmm, that's a good point, I'd not really considered that. Is this true of WoW? I was under the impression that a flagged Hordie who stands in my Consecration would take damage but flagged players who aren't on flying mounts or about to run inside an instance are so rare these days I wouldn't even know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? It shouldn't have to. It's a "PVE" server, not a "PVE if you're really really careful" server. You should not be able to affect another player in any way unless you type in /pvp. The only way around it that I can see is to require you to switch on your own PvP flag before you're able to attack the flagged player - but that's a clunky extra step that would take the spontaneity out of seeing someone in your hub area and deciding to punish them. Or worse, seeing them attacking a fellow player or your friend and being unable to defend them without going rightclicking and going through sub-menus. A clunky extra step. /sigh. It's a "PVE" server. PVE people should not be the ones who have to go through all the extra steps to remain unflagged. That's pretty skewed thinking. If you're looking for free & easy PVP with spontaneity, roll on a PVP server. That's supposedly what they're there for. And there's no rightclicking & sub-menues involved. Type /pvp and there you go. For some, that extra step might be the lesser of two evils (and some might even see it as completely fine) but I know that I personally enjoy the risk/reward of being flagged because I've been snooping around somewhere I shouldn't and that would be vastly mitigated if I knew I had the time to mount up before any Republic players manage to find the menu option. Again, roll on a PVP server. They'll be glad to see you I'm sure. And you keep talking about going through submenus to flag. I must be missing something. /pvp. Voila. Anyway, not saying either is right, just food for thought. I see where you're coming from, but you have to understand that this impacts our gameplay overall. It's not just a minor inconvenience, it means we have to play as we would on a pvp server, trying to avoid the enemy, not using aoes, worrying about stealthed enemies, etc. That may all sound like fun to you, but it is not fun for everyone and that's "presumably" why we have our so-called "PVE" servers, which in fact are only "PVE" if you can manage to remain unflagged despite the game mechanics and other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islossk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Boohoo, you probably lost more time mashing refresh on this thread than you did dying in game. go faceplant on a bed of spikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So to all you "it's griefing/an exploit" type folks, I pose the following question: how do you propose that the game differentiates between an attack which hits a flagged player accidentally and one which hits a flagged player intentionally? The only way around it that I can see is to require you to switch on your own PvP flag before you're able to attack the flagged player - but that's a clunky extra step that would take the spontaneity out of seeing someone in your hub area and deciding to punish them. Or worse, seeing them attacking a fellow player or your friend and being unable to defend them without going rightclicking and going through sub-menus. . all you have to do is type /flag (or is it /pvp, don't know). takes less than a second. I don't CARE that it takes the spontaneity out. I don't EVER want to participate in PvP. If I see someone on my faction getting beat up, that's his problem. He chose to flag. I have better things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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