Descends Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Multi-threading is a technique and not a readily functional and available feature. There are many ways how to overuse it and even more ways to screw up things up with it while not achieving anything worthwhile. You still would have to account for the number of processing units available and the fact that data cannot be cached by the CPU indefinitely. but it would sure run better on 4-8 cpu than 1.....regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrathisKond Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 hero: Awards Finalist for "Best Engine" from Game Developer magazine.[7] unreal engine: Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2011 Top Industry Driven Tech of the Year NCTA – 2011 Best Engine Develop – 2011 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2010 Best Engine Develop – 2010 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2009 Best Engine Develop – 2009 Best Tools Provider Develop – 2008 Top Industry Driven Technology of the Year NCTA – 2008 Hall of Fame Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2008 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2007 Best Technology Game Developer Choice Awards – 2007 Outstanding Achievement in Online Game Play AIAS Interactive Achievement Awards – 2007 Outstanding Achievement in Visual Engineering AIAS Interactive Achievement Awards – 2007 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2006 Best Graphics (Technical) GameSpot – 2006 Best Graphics:Reader’s Choice (Technical) GameSpot – 2006 Best Graphics Spike TV Video Game Awards – 2006 Best Graphics TeamXbox – 2006 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2005 Best Graphics Technology (Xbox 360), Technological Excellence IGN – 2005 Best Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards – 2004 so ...no. I can get behind this logic. Most people I know think the screwdriver is the best tool around the house. That's why I've replaced all my hammers with screwdrivers. Because why would you ever use a hammer when you could use a screwdriver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 [...] You can really sum it up with one simple jerky sentence fragment "2012: still using dx9." [...] Skyrim uses dx9, FYI. Using the newest version of DirectX doesn't make a game inherently better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) MMORPGs simply cannot look as good as an FPS, there are more players, the environments are a factor of 10-100 times larger than a small little FPS level, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. You're just so ignorant and yet convinced you know everything. I have a B.S. in Computer Science. How about you? I don't think you have any knowledge of what you're talking about at all. I think you're just another loudmouth American who is too busy to stop and consider "maybe there is more to this situation than I think" and instead you just get loud and belligerent demanding the impossible. No one is saying TOR should look like a FPS. Thats ignorrant. but it should have high res textures enabled in the game world. MMO's have been doing that for a long time. AOC , Rift, Aion, Lotro. all games released in the last 5 years. They were in game for 4 hours in beta and promptly removed. Its not impossible i think it just boils down to some mistakes BW made in their devolpment cycle. the engine does not run the options they have now very well( which are very limited graphically) No one is being loud or belligernt . attacking American culture on a whole is pretty stupid and for all your degree's you lack a severe amount of maturity . the community is basing their opinion based on expierences in other MMO's. which there is a stark contrast compared to TOR from games that released 4 years ago and were in devolpment far before TOR was.As for advertising of the product, they advertised it with high res textures.They confirmed to several fan sites in 2009 that high res textures were in game not just cutscenes. Edited February 16, 2012 by wifeaggro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) It's the best engine period, if it is indeed the best engine. It's been used extensively for just about every genre you could think of: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games I'm not some lover of unreal, there is just no doubt that it's one of the greats whereas hero engine apparently isn't. You can really sum it up with one simple jerky sentence fragment "2012: still using dx9." But the game is fun and lots of people like it, you can still like the game and admit that they made a mistake or two can't you? There are a ton of mistakes made in SWTOR, it's just I don't think the engine is one of them. Engines are customizable to the point where it won't even resemble the OOTB engine. The engine is essentially just a tool to use. And you state that they were nominated for an award....how is that a bad thing? Opinion incoming: Mistake: no full control space combat and space pvp. ^^ That one is huge for me... Edit: followed your link, and the only MMOs I noticed that have ever used this were created by Chinese Gamer International............... Edited February 16, 2012 by Azzras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyraele Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 perhaps this is true with low settings on lowend hardware...but on good hardware the opposite is true..which is why they cant implement high res textures because the curve sucks. if you struggle to run guild wars..you must be playing on very poor hardware indeed. my specs 4.5ghz i5 7970 8gb 1600mhz raid 0 hitachi (doesnt improve load speed in this game for some reason) games that run worse than this one at max settings? 0. since most people dont have nice hardware it may make sense to accomodate the lowend of the spectrum...but if you have trouble running guild wars..you must be the absolute lowest end on the market..so as much as im the 1% highend, youd be the 1% lowend i would guess. not meaning any disrespect just putting it in perspective. I don't struggle to play GW. Most of the time the FPS is in the hundreds, like 300-400 according to FRAPS. I don't know how it can go that high but that shows up. There are just bursts of these low FPS scenarios that last a second or 2 when transitioning in and out of town. Other than that there is nothing wrong. I have: Core 2 Duo 3GHz 8800 GTS 512MB 4MB ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteis Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree it's terrible and I hate the limitations it very obviously imposes. I wish they built one themselves like Blizzard did. Would have been so much better I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairMagpie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 but it would sure run better on 4-8 cpu than 1.....regardless... Not per se. It's down to programming. I have been playing games which made use of multi-threading and ran like a 500 pound woman through mud but I have also seen games which made efficient use of it. To say that it it will is not correct, that it has the potential to do so in some cases (not all all of them!) that is another and not the same. In the end it's requiring a completely different code architecture as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berezo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 they got this engine for FREE, it was a money decision. They decided not to spend the extra buck to make an investment in their own game engine. Now, as the players, we have to suffer for the cheapskate decision to save an extra buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrathisKond Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree it's terrible and I hate the limitations it very obviously imposes. I wish they built one themselves like Blizzard did. Would have been so much better I'm sure. It would've also cut out their budget to fully VO the game. Or maybe it would've cut out their budget for your favorite three planets. Or maybe it would've cut the budget for PvP? More likely it would've caused the projected budget of the project to be too much for EA and this game would've never been made. Although it seems like you don't care about that, so you should probably stick with WoW, content in the knowledge that this industry will never move past it until tools enable devs to make games at a cheaper investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentonj Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The Hero Engine can't even hold more than 16 players on screen at once. Particularly during combat, it's absolutely game breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Not per se. It's down to programming. I have been playing games which made use of multi-threading and ran like a 500 pound woman through mud but I have also seen games which made efficient use of it. To say that it it will is not correct, that it has the potential to do so in some cases (not all all of them!) that is another and not the same. In the end it's requiring a completely different code architecture as well. sw:tor can't run on 1 core, and can barely run on 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyraele Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The Hero Engine can't even hold more than 16 players on screen at once. Particularly during combat, it's absolutely game breaking. This isn't true. We had over 120 players at once on the screen with no problem during one of our events. It did have a LOT of lag when we started fighting, but other than that it worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When you build your house on a foundation of mud, dont be surprised when it falls down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandriell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Quite a few complaints about lack of multi-threading support in the Hero Engine. Whats even funnier about all the complaints is that they are totally, 100% completely wrong. The HeroEngine is not single-threaded. This is false information spread by a HeroEngine dev quote that was taken out of context. That quote was talking about how the rendering and simulation processes both share a single thread, it was not saying the entire engine was in fact a single thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiam Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 they got this engine for FREE, it was a money decision. They decided not to spend the extra buck to make an investment in their own game engine. Now, as the players, we have to suffer for the cheapskate decision to save an extra buck. We don't have to, we can put our money where our mouths are and unsubscribe. That's what I have done. It is unacceptable for an Mmo to come out and run the worse on the best of rigs out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 We don't have to, we can put our money where our mouths are and unsubscribe. That's what I have done. It is unacceptable for an Mmo to come out and run the worse on the best of rigs out there. Runs fine on my rig. I'm sorry that you are having problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descends Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Whats even funnier about all the complaints is that they are totally, 100% completely wrong. The HeroEngine is not single-threaded. This is false information spread by a HeroEngine dev quote that was taken out of context. That quote was talking about how the rendering and simulation processes both share a single thread, it was not saying the entire engine was in fact a single thread. my cpu usage during swtor has never hit higher than 40% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandriell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 my cpu usage during swtor has never hit higher than 40% And your point? Cause you know that has nothing to do with whether a game is multi-threaded or not, right? Yeah, I'm sure you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Whats even funnier about all the complaints is that they are totally, 100% completely wrong. The HeroEngine is not single-threaded. This is false information spread by a HeroEngine dev quote that was taken out of context. That quote was talking about how the rendering and simulation processes both share a single thread, it was not saying the entire engine was in fact a single thread. No it's a single threaded engine. I found a post in their forums that talked about it and when would there be an upgrade. I have the link but when I click on it it takes me to the general forum. I can get the page up on google, view the page in their preview off to the right and a developer specifically said the engine is single threaded. Ugh here maybe you'll have better luck: community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?topic=889.0 If you search google for heroengine single thread, third link down is the page. Not sure why I can't view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They didnt get the engine for free. Their is a hero engine blog that reveals they got a nice check from EAWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They didnt get the engine for free. Their is a hero engine blog that reveals they got a nice check from EAWare. I think the local Costco sells the Heroengine in the clearance section. It may be next to the Tire and Lube area. There is a special of purchasing the Heroengine you get a free SWTOR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandriell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) No it's a single threaded engine. I found a post in their forums that talked about it and when would there be an upgrade. I have the link but when I click on it it takes me to the general forum. I can get the page up on google, view the page in their preview off to the right and a developer specifically said the engine is single threaded. Ugh here maybe you'll have better luck: community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?topic=889.0 If you search google for heroengine single thread, third link down is the page. Not sure why I can't view it. Sorry, but no. You are talking about this quote, right? "The HeroEngine is single threaded, there will be multithread support in the future, but I don't have a publish date for it right now." Where you promptly stopped reading cause it fully supported your argument. I even admit, on the face of it, its a pretty damning statement. However it is taken out of context of what the thread is talking about, and if you kept reading you would have seen this followup dev quote. "Just to clarify Cooper's statement ... In the current release, simulation and rendering are what run on a single shared thread." Edited February 16, 2012 by Sandriell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sorry, but no. You are talking about this quote, right? "The HeroEngine is single threaded, there will be multithread support in the future, but I don't have a publish date for it right now." Where you promptly stopped reading cause it fully supported your argument. I even admit, on the face of it, its a pretty damning statement. However it is taken out of context of what the thread is talking about, and if you kept reading you would have seen this followup dev quote. "Just to clarify Cooper's statement ... In the current release, simulation and rendering are what run on a single shared thread." I'm not arguing with you. I couldn't see the link. When I read the statement it was the only one I could read. Surely you could easily see how I could get it mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahlle Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When you build your house on a foundation of mud, dont be surprised when it falls down. Quote for truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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