Taurusaud Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Did you even take the time to read how the data is collected? Seriously, if you're not going to take 30 seconds to educate yourself just depart from this thread. Thank you sir. Forget the thread, I honestly wish these people would just depart from this planet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherig Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Why did you choose an Engine that wasn't developed to your exact specifications? I mean, EA and BW make enough, you could have outsourced your Engine development and made the engine fit your game. Instead, you chose the lazy way and are trying to make a game fit an engine. Not only that, you picked a terrible single-threaded engine that can't even process commands before animations finish, hence all of the ability delay rage you're seeing. Seriously. Blizzard built an engine to fit their game, they're billions (trillions yet?) richer. You didn't, and you're missing out on Billions in part due to this decision. Why? You do realize BioWare is EA now, EA owns them so using EA's engine in a EA susidiary makes sense, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokedust Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hope they fix this game(the pvp part of it) until Diablo 3 comes out. Cause if I don't quit this game until that time, I will surely do it in then, if the pvp is in the same condition. Not more big programmer talk pls. I'l also a programmer (a real working one for the last 6 years), but I will not start to give advice's to Bioware(who i love for Mass Effect) or EA( who i hate for a lot of things). The way they will act in the coming month or two will decide the future of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranlaen Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't know for sure if the game is poorly optimized or the engine is at fault but what i do know is the game cannot handle more then 50 people in same area without lag.Hero engine i understand was made for a fantasy mmo that got ditched when the makers realized they could make more selling the engine .Which is intresting because one of the main difference between a fantasy setting and a sci fi is the much high amount of projectiles in a sci fi and one problem in swtor is the animation lag.The game looks like graphically like 2008 or so which is not big deal but hogs resources like a 2012 game with all the latest innovation in graphics turned up.I do not know but the game certainly is not smooth at all for some reason.I could be in a area playing on my travel laptop in rift fighting along 100 people with no or little lag despite it having a intergrated graphics card yet in swtor i cannot even play on it and using my gaming laptop with much better specs i have to go low setting in ilum and still lag terribly when both armies clash and there no more then 60 at best in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenoria Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) It's true. Why not use blizzard's engine to run your game? Sure, you help the rich get richer, but good grief at least you get rich too. Not one blizzard engine has ever been sold and as it looks now they never will. For good reason they spends years developing them. And lets be honest there latest engine the one for SC2 is a diamond. The thing is so perfectely crafted in my opinion and runs smooth as hell. Early rumors for Titan at first even suggested that the SC2 engine would be the base for the titan engine. But like everything regarding titan we simply dont know. Its even better to not sell out, when you hold the most powerfull weapon why would you give it to somebody. Even if they pay for it. OT: Simply put the engine even if its a highly customized hero-engine was not ready for what it is being used for. The amount of problems preformance wise with it are incredible. I get the feeling they simply didnt fully understand what there engine was capable of and what it wasnt. This for Blizzard was easy to tell since the WoW-engine at the start of the alpha was a highly customized WC3 engine. If to this date the WC3 engine is still part of the WoW engine nobody knows (except blizzard) What they did to the WC3 engine? Again nobody knows, and we probably for years and years to come will never know. The only thing we do know they have evolved the WC3 alot over all the years. With the latest additions being: -Sunshafts -New water / lava (liquids) graphics -Directx 11 support -64-bit version of WoW -Developer tool edit: Forgot they added a tool into for developers to edit the game while its running. Edited January 28, 2012 by Aenoria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdela Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Everyone is aware that the engine was licensed in its earliest days, and they haven't received newer code for it right? They licensed it because they liked the tools it had, not because it was a complete and fully featured engine. In fact most of it was unfinished, which means that BioWare did most of the work on the engine for the game. You're all aware as well that the engine on which a game runs is more of a groundwork for rendering, animation systems, API calls, etc. than for actual game logic right? You're not just conflating all of the source code into one thing and calling it the Hero Engine? No? Good, glad we got that cleared away. Now we can have pertinent discussions. source: http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ This a million times. If you go to the hero engine website and watch some of the developer videos, you will see that the tools around the engine are really nice and fully-featured. If you built your own engine, you will be building your own toolset. Why waste your time on the tools if someone did the toolset better already. It would be like creating your very own IDE, compiler, and language before you go build a website. I mean you certainly could do that, but it is a gigantic waste of time. I'll save you some time: http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/management-tools/. Watch that video and you can easily see how useful the toolset can be. I would love something as fluid and integrated in doing my programming work. Maybe I should build it, but I shudder to think of the amount of time it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vollkel Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 ... that those who work for profit can gain access to celebrity A-lists, whereas those who care for technological progress dont. in a world that has chosen the wrong way, bioware plays its cards "right". the answer to the first question raised is: money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think HeroEngine is not the poroblem, the problem was that BioWare didn't kept in touch with the creators of HeroEngine and used the not optimized early version as their base to build on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizznyc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make an opinion about this engine, when you experience first hand how terrible it is. Is the blame on the engine, or the programmers programming said engine? I personally don't think the hero engine (again my opinion here) was meant to be used in a large-scale MMO title. On the other hand, the engine programmers at BioWare, probably are putting in things this said engine cannot handle, and we have these issues. I personally see this game going the road of Final Fantasy online. Making customers 'wait' until a 2.0 release to get out all of the quirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KagatoTheThird Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us Proof that the average number of people playing at any given time is in fact dwindling. It could be that everyone is still paying but just not playing. However, Occam's razor is a fine for the current situation in swtor. Wow your failure to understand just what this tool is is epic. All this does is show is show the sever load based on the avrage of all the severs status (light, standard, heavy or full). these are based on the sever caps that bioware has full control over and we know for a fact they have raised and the number of severs. Notice how the graph dips and sabalizes at a lower level after dec 20 and about jan 3? Guess what happend then, a massive exodus from the game? going by your so called population graph we had the highest population on day 2 of early access which is utter nonsense. to quote Billy Madison " what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul" Edited January 28, 2012 by KagatoTheThird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't know for sure if the game is poorly optimized or the engine is at fault How about both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerX Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 basically it was easier for the devs Wow, so the whole dev process was a huge minecraft session Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make an opinion about this engine, when you experience first hand how terrible it is. Is the blame on the engine, or the programmers programming said engine? I personally don't think the hero engine (again my opinion here) was meant to be used in a large-scale MMO title. On the other hand, the engine programmers at BioWare, probably are putting in things this said engine cannot handle, and we have these issues. I personally see this game going the road of Final Fantasy online. Making customers 'wait' until a 2.0 release to get out all of the quirks. The engine can do whatever they make it do. It's not a black box, they have full source access to change anything they want to in it. In fact I'm sure the majority of that code is actually theirs now. They'll likely fix optimization given time, just like WoW has improved theirs over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysann Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The engine can do whatever they make it do. It's not a black box, they have full source access to change anything they want to in it. In fact I'm sure the majority of that code is actually theirs now. They'll likely fix optimization given time, just like WoW has improved theirs over time. Wow never went to 2 FPS while spamming B for backpack. SWTOR does. This crappy engine is single threaded in the UI and rendering and that is pathetic, or the thread synchronization is blocking whenever UI events occur. In any event, no professional company in the mmo genre has ever released a product with such glaring fps issues as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyZaMa Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I love the way the engine looks and there is a multi-thread release coming soon. However, I'm not going to stop playing just because of some issues. I really, really like this game and its been a long time since I had this much "fun" in an MMO. I am confident in Bioware. I don't have the same faith in other companies... Well said, and totally agree. Loving this game. Everything can be fixed, and I am sure Bioware will fix all issues in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmJakub Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) The engine can do whatever they make it do. It's not a black box, they have full source access to change anything they want to in it. In fact I'm sure the majority of that code is actually theirs now. They'll likely fix optimization given time, just like WoW has improved theirs over time. I love the optimism and I wish I could share it, but realistically this kind of thinking only gives BW a free pass to delay any such actions indefinitely. They have not even openly admitted there is an FPS problem when there are multiple people on screen in WZs/Illum etc. Even their recently released guide just briefly mentioned this with a comment that low GPU usage should be expected as majority of heavy lifting in this scenarios should be done by the CPU. My understanding is that the game engine in the current form is not even able to utilize any modern day quad core or better CPUs. (so really the poor performance is still not the end user's problem and rather for Bioware to fix). Anyway how about we take a more common sense approach and all unsub until all these things are fixed so we dont have to pay for our wait in the meantime, especially when nobody can tell how long are we to be waiting for. Edited February 8, 2012 by IAmJakub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogitu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 In any event, no professional company in the mmo genre has ever released a product with such glaring fps issues as this one. this ur first mmo i guess or even one of your first pc games altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjetl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Nope, it's worse than you think. WAR used DAOC's engine. DAoC used NetImmersion initially then "upgraded" to Gambryo with ToA. War used Gamebryo HERO's big claims to fame are: 1) it makes it easy to do collaborative development (e.g. over the internet) 2) they can host everything, including CS and billing 3) HORRIBLE FPS and performance Edited February 8, 2012 by Kjetl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrmrstacrdwower Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Many reasons probably. To try and prove that is still a top engine (hasnt been for years). More likely though is to save money. We lose in the end We don't lose Bioware and EA do by failing to deliver on yet another MMO, at least from EA's part, and showing the MMO/Gaming Community exactly what kind of design and development teams Bioware has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) So... we are doomed regarding the character responsiveness ? If yes, I don't think I'll stay long time... Games developed with HeroEngine Faxion Online Star Wars: The Old Republic from BioWare[11] Unreleased games being developed with HeroEngine Hero's Journey - Company's game the engine was developed for. Origins - Developed by Burning Dog Dominus by PitchBlack Games[12] The Repopulation - Being developed by Above and Beyond Technologies Visions of Zosimos by Forever Interactive What is Faxion and how well did it do for Bio to look at all the metrics and say this is the one. This pic looks like it came from SW:ToR. Allot of the pics from the game Dominus looks like SW:ToR. http://www.dominusthegame.com/media/screenshots/ Edited February 8, 2012 by Amiracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenthiosLestaran Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Games developed with HeroEngine Faxion Online Star Wars: The Old Republic from BioWare[11] Unreleased games being developed with HeroEngine Hero's Journey - Company's game the engine was developed for. Origins - Developed by Burning Dog Dominus by PitchBlack Games[12] The Repopulation - Being developed by Above and Beyond Technologies Visions of Zosimos by Forever Interactive What is Faxion and how well did it do for Bio to look at all the metrics and say this is the one. This pic looks like it came from SW:ToR. Allot of the pics from the game Dominus looks like SW:ToR. http://www.dominusthegame.com/media/screenshots/ Yeah look at the HD textures. That alien species looks really cool, like some kind of guy made out of organic crystal or..like, glowing vines. Pretty neat. The graphics are similar but undeniably better in these screen shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neocoma Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Why did you choose an Engine that wasn't developed to your exact specifications? I mean, EA and BW make enough, you could have outsourced your Engine development and made the engine fit your game. Instead, you chose the lazy way and are trying to make a game fit an engine. Not only that, you picked a terrible single-threaded engine that can't even process commands before animations finish, hence all of the ability delay rage you're seeing. Seriously. Blizzard built an engine to fit their game, they're billions (trillions yet?) richer. You didn't, and you're missing out on Billions in part due to this decision. Why? You know ..they could have used a "good" engine. At least Unreal Engine dont bring up that many problems. TERA looks good doesnt it? So does Blade and Soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Bottom left hand pic, looks like a frozen planet that I have already seen...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seallone Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 AMEN I have a good gaming pc and everything is slow loading, major lag if you play for long time due to memory leak I play a lot, being disabled it allows it haha, but after 3 hours of gameplay the game is eating over 2 gigs of ram and slows to a crawl. oh and don't log out using quit button in game it takes FOREVER for the game client to quit. what I do is alt tab, open task manager and end task on swtor.exe then the game instantly exits. then i relog for another 3 hours of gameplay before the memory leak monster eats it all up again. and this is on a SSD hard drive. Yeah but have you got DX installed and installed all update's and done the repair, If not its your problem. Not BW YOURS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Why? Because heroengine rocks. That's why...the more BioWare will be updating it, staking out performance issues, the smoother it will be. I have NO problem with anything in this game with performance. Yes I know, just because I don't doesn't mean everyone doesn't. I love the heroengine and I know BW will continue to do lots of good work on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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