Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have personally used the Hero Engine for my MMO and I think BioWare made an excellent choice. Idea Fabrik keeps the HE up to date and includes a huge amount of support resources. HE is constantly evolving and without limitation. So, please, think (or research) before you speak. Yes, because your amazingly complex and next gen mmo is so far above the level of understanding of anyone who has used or developed in Hero Engine for more than 5 minutes. Seriously. You're still in the kiddy pool, one day you'll get to the big kids pool but you're not there yet and have a lot to learn. The fact an Engine's main tout is that it's easy to develop in is the developer of said engine trying to cover up for it's plethora of deprecated and poor design. Also, RE: engine being developed for WoW. I was referring to the wc3 engine being developed and modified for blizzards purposes, not that the engine was developed brand new specifically for WoW. Also, you can apparently still post after your time has run out and you haven't resubbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinkitink Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Also, you can apparently still post after your time has run out and you haven't resubbed. Really? Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkSugar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I'm sure BioWare can dish out some $$$ to the devs at HeroEngine if they want something improved with it. Even without it, I'm sure the engine is developed, not left at its current state. It's working relatively good and I use it myself for a game project, I can see why BW likes it! You are right, however, that money will come from Subscribers. The question is whether they will have enough of them to pay the Developers at Hero Engine to fix the current issues. But then again, some of the Higher Ups at Bioware are friends with the developers at HeroEngine, so money may not be a factor. Who knows!? All I know is about more than half of Tor's playerbase is waiting on Guild Wars 2 and or Diablo. If Bioware doesn't fix the issues by then, this ship will have official sunk and Blizzard will win once again. The only people that will be left are the Roleplayers and even they will be pissed because they would have rather stayed in SWG.... Edited January 27, 2012 by PinkSugar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yes, because your amazingly complex and next gen mmo is so far above the level of understanding of anyone who has used or developed in Hero Engine for more than 5 minutes. Seriously. You're still in the kiddy pool, one day you'll get to the big kids pool but you're not there yet and have a lot to learn. Tokeee, how many titles have you shipped in your game development career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akaidian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would rather see risks than mediocrity. OH the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlysith Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 OH the irony. I lol'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Tokeee, how many titles have you shipped in your game development career? Oh snap, credentials time. I've shipped 3, one of them with a company we're all well acquainted with. My turn. How many have you shipped, what were they, and where is your name in the credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Oh snap, credentials time. I've shipped 3, one of them with a company we're all well acquainted with. But outsourcing your engine is the "lazy" way out? Why don't I believe the above, fantastical story? My turn. How many have you shipped, what were they, and where is your name in the credits? Two. I was the I.T. guy though, so it's not terribly relevant, especially since I'm not the one demonstrating a complete lack of game development understanding. There's plenty of reasons to outsource an engine, and that doesn't make you lazy or incompetent. Edited January 27, 2012 by JustTed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentonj Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's a bad engine for a game which appears to be dwindling at a drastic rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's a bad engine for a game which appears to be dwindling at a drastic rate. You don't have proof for either of those claims. You just made them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 But outsourcing your engine is the "lazy" way out? Why don't I believe the above, fantastical story? Two. I was the I.T. guy though, so it's not terribly relevant, especially since I'm not the one demonstrating a complete lack of game development understanding. There's plenty of reasons to outsource an engine, and that doesn't make you lazy or incompetent. I love quoting myself for those who have little to no reading comprehension Why did you choose an Engine that wasn't developed to your exact specifications? Hero engine was not built FOR swtor. It was built to for hero's journey and then turned into a mass usage tool so that indie developers could have a lower cost of entry and less risk to develop their game in a limited scope while still having the architecture to support something that is multiplayer. When you have the kind of bankroll that EA/BW have. You have zero excuse not to have a custom engine designed for you. So yes, it is in fact lazy and incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hero engine was not built FOR swtor. ...so? When you have the kind of bankroll that EA/BW have. You have zero excuse not to have a custom engine designed for you. So yes, it is in fact lazy and incompetent. Because with money, you can just purchase more time, right? Shipped titles? I'm beginning to think you've never even been employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuanceNW Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I found updated graphics drivers yesterday, machine two in my home is now wholly playable with SWTOR. Didn't take any changes to the game engine, just updated drivers dated 1/25/2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 You don't have proof for either of those claims. You just made them up. http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us Proof that the average number of people playing at any given time is in fact dwindling. It could be that everyone is still paying but just not playing. However, Occam's razor is a fine for the current situation in swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us Proof that the average number of people playing at any given time is in fact dwindling. It could be that everyone is still paying but just not playing. However, Occam's razor is a fine for the current situation in swtor. And how is this data collected? With /who? That would make it pretty inaccurate, but that's never stopped people from appealing to these awful tools before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us Proof that the average number of people playing at any given time is in fact dwindling. It could be that everyone is still paying but just not playing. However, Occam's razor is a fine for the current situation in swtor. you do know there were more poeple on at a given time due to the winter break for school,collage and some poeple taht work for the x-mas time frame right ? i'm a worker and collage student (IT and mastering IT degree now) and was off durning dec 15-jan 2 time frame. also if you in the army/basic training and AIT during x-mas break everyone forced to go home, yes i'm ex-army too lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...so? Because with money, you can just purchase more time, right? Shipped titles? I'm beginning to think you've never even been employed. I've already realized the same from you. Projects are measured in manhours. You cannot purchase more time but if a project is projected to take 1000 manhours from a certain skillset, often employing one or two additional developers can reduce the customers time to receive a product while still taking the same number of manhours. You can't just throw more people at a situation constantly, that's for certain, however you can put an engine into development for a year or two and begin work on non-engine required tasks. It's amazing what you can do when you learn how the process works isn't it? Any more advice from me and I'm going to have to start charging you my hourly consulting fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 And how is this data collected? With /who? That would make it pretty inaccurate, but that's never stopped people from appealing to these awful tools before. Did you even take the time to read how the data is collected? Seriously, if you're not going to take 30 seconds to educate yourself just depart from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeckTator Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Instead, you chose the lazy way and are trying to make a game fit an engine. Not only that, you picked a terrible single-threaded engine that can't even process commands before animations finish, hence all of the ability delay rage you're seeing. They've done a extensive rewrite of the engine, they say it barely even resembles the original hero engine). it should be threaded, why else is Dual core minumum and Quad recomended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Deth Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The hero engine is bad. Champions has the same ability lag this game suffers from. Champions Online did not use the Hero engine. Yes it used the HERO System for its rules and lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I love quoting myself for those who have little to no reading comprehension Hero engine was not built FOR swtor. It was built to for hero's journey and then turned into a mass usage tool so that indie developers could have a lower cost of entry and less risk to develop their game in a limited scope while still having the architecture to support something that is multiplayer. When you have the kind of bankroll that EA/BW have. You have zero excuse not to have a custom engine designed for you. So yes, it is in fact lazy and incompetent. Idiotic statement, EA wasnt in the picture when the engine was chosen, something a develope would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokeee Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 you do know there were more poeple on at a given time due to the winter break for school,collage and some poeple taht work for the x-mas time frame right ? i'm a worker and collage student (IT and mastering IT degree now) and was off durning dec 15-jan 2 time frame. also if you in the army/basic training and AIT during x-mas break everyone forced to go home, yes i'm ex-army too lol Yeah man, I made collages in kindergarten too and they are time consuming! Whew! Oh you meant college, sorry I got all excited about making a collage of failure from the bulk of posters in this thread and hanging it on my wall and... what were you talking about? Oh. Wait. Good lord this is difficult to read. Yes, I'm well aware of the population fluctuation due to game release. However, after 1/3 and 1/14 there is still a declining trend in the number of subscribers logged on concurrently. It did not level off, although as they get lower and lower it does seem to be tapering closer to what will probably be their "6 month" player base, and then decline further after that. It's not growing, that much is certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've already realized the same from you. Projects are measured in manhours. You cannot purchase more time but if a project is projected to take 1000 manhours from a certain skillset, often employing one or two additional developers can reduce the customers time to receive a product while still taking the same number of manhours. You can't just throw more people at a situation constantly, that's for certain, however you can put an engine into development for a year or two and begin work on non-engine required tasks. It's amazing what you can do when you learn how the process works isn't it? Any more advice from me and I'm going to have to start charging you my hourly consulting fee. Save it. "Throw money at it while spending an additional two years making our game" is terrible advice. You're fired. I'm sorry Age of Conan didn't work out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentonj Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) You don't have proof for either of those claims. You just made them up. Actually it's quite accurate. Most analysts have trimmed BioWare's earnings and expectations way down. Not to mention, the many public tools now available which show decreasing population on almost all severs. In regards to the engine, look no further to the actual forums - which display an almost universal disgust for the lack of creativity and performance from the Hero Engine. Although judging from your post history, BioWare can do no wrong - and everything is going great. I suppose drones are needed, even in real life. Edited January 27, 2012 by brentonj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kedlan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Actually it's quite accurate. Most analysts have trimmed BioWare's earnings and expectations way down. Not to mention, the many public tools now available which show decreasing population on almost all severs. In regards to the engine, look no further to the actual forums - which display an almost universal disgust for the lack of creativity and performance from the Hero Engine. Although judging from your post history, BioWare can no wrong - and everything is going great. I suppose drones are needed, even in real life. Accurate? Please. Last time I checked numbers can be played with to make them look better or worse, depending on what point you want to make. Ill wait a year before I can say the game is dead or not. As for the analysts, same story different setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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