The Expertise stat has to go...

[BDutch]

Thats what I did granted I only got 2 things out of those bags I was lucky one was my main hand. Really what this boils down to is .

 

1. I just started why do you have an advantage over me even though you have spent many days trying to get the little bit of gear you have.

 

2. I only pvp part time and Im sick of dying by somebody who is better. So I have to blame it on something. Because it couldnt be im not as good as that other person.

 

3.Im in full champ gear and have gotten rolled by guys in Rakata/Columi gear you know what Maybe they were better maybe it was there gear I just dont know. Im just saying you can be competive in pvp with raid gear.

 

4. We have small servers, no battlegroups/cross-server WZ, a massive faction imbalance, and item level 140 @ player level 50 at release. Just how many future tiers of gear are you going to spread across the level 50 bracket? At what point does it become a waste of time to go from 49 to 50 and start a new gear grind for the same content you already had?

[RJChief]

Thats what I did granted I only got 2 things out of those bags I was lucky one was my main hand.

 

I know myself and a few guildies have rolled MANY bags, got quite a few duplicates (without a system to turn them in for creds) and STILL don't have the main hand.

 

I am missing 2 champ pieces, Chest and Weapon. I honestly couldn't tell you how many bags I rolled but its up there.

[StealthStalker]

the funniest thing about this is, everyone is complaining about this system because the game is so new. within a few months when majority of the population is 50 and have a decent amount of expertise. all these complaints will go away, because when everyone has the same amount of pvp gear it really boils down to skill or maybe some ppl will go back to class imbalance posts.

 

expertise may or may not be the perfect pvp system, but it's good enough. if you dont have it, take the time and get it. instead of wanting to remove it simply because you got trashed by someone who put in the time or got super lucky and got the gear needed.

 

none of this is going to matter later on. frankly, i find class imbalance posts much more interesting and entertaining.

 

Most people arguing against Expertise have been arguing since its inception as Resilience, or Valor, or whatever else previous games have called it. This isn't a new debate because it's a new game.

 

The complaints disappear because people unhappy with the system probably leave or just stop PvP'ing, not because they just accept it. That's not necessarily a good thing.

Edited January 24, 2012 by StealthStalker

[wolfthetank]

The reason for it isn't to help or hinder pvp'ers, it's to prevent raiders from being forced to pvp to remain competitive

 

 

to bad this is haping as of now u can not find a group to run FPs and HM at lvl 50 thy dont see any purples and u dont have any good gear but thy are useing all pvp gear ?

 

if u have pvp gear it shud only work for pvp not pve and pvp!!!

[RJChief]

4. We have small servers, no battlegroups/cross-server WZ, a massive faction imbalance, and item level 140 @ player level 50 at release. Just how many future tiers of gear are you going to spread across the level 50 bracket? At what point does it become a waste of time to go from 49 to 50 and start a new gear grind for the same content you already had?

 

Welcome to instanced PVP.. This is why a lot of dedicated PvP'ers are Anti Warzone/Battleground/whatever-you-call-it. Valor grind is valor grind. Same fight same place and pretty much same people.

 

I think/hope/pray BW is intending on pushing more open pvp content. Where we can all continue to complain about faction imbalance and imperial>republic mirror balance and what not.

 

And as an FYI, because most all the servers are Imperial overbalanced implementing cross faction WZ's will only further the problem. Republic will continue to complain about Imperial Battlemasters and the Imperial will continue to grow sick of Huttball.

[pinealogik]

I will hit 50 soon, and PvP'ing (1-49) was quite frankly, awesome. Now, why should I even try at 50? I'll get nonstop destroyed by people with stacked Expertise for month. How is that even remotely fun? At least in PvE, there is some sort of progression, fresh 50 can work their way up, acquired gears and progress through the content. It's fun.

 

Right now, you hit 50 and pretty much get farmed by other players for month, Woohoo? No skill involved at all. Expertise wasn't necessary between 1-49 and it was fine. Like I said, PvP was super fun like this. Why create such unnecessary and BORING grind? PvP at 50 has nothing to do with skill, and that's pretty sad.

 

Also, don't get me started on their RNG Bag system, what a load of crap.

Edited January 24, 2012 by pinealogik

[RJChief]

to bad this is haping as of now u can not find a group to run FPs and HM at lvl 50 thy dont see any purples and u dont have any good gear but thy are useing all pvp gear ?

 

if u have pvp gear it shud only work for pvp not pve and pvp!!!

 

Expertise does only take affect against other players.... Its just the easiest/first gear you can grind.

[Yozbick]

The reason for it isn't to help or hinder pvp'ers, it's to prevent raiders from being forced to pvp to remain competitive

 

Moreso to prevent PVPers from being forced to raid in order to remain competitive.

[shaidarlol]

There's no PvP stat. Correct? Great.

 

What you gain by going to a higher tier of gear is very slightly higher base stats. I mean single digit differences here on each stat/piece of gear. The second difference in different tiers of gear were set bonuses.

 

Gear in WAR had up to 5 set bonuses (later on up to 6), starting with 2 pieces generally. So people began wearing gear that they liked the set bonuses of more than anything.

 

 

this is just gear progression, if you look at the pve gear from tionese -> columi -> rakata or centurion -> champion -> battlemaster you'll notice the stats are basically just single digit increases. i don't see how this is relevant.

 

Now, to prevent people from just going in and PvP'ing for great gear, then taking it into PvE (as you mentioned in one of your posts), you had to deal with wards.

 

Wards theoretically can then only be obtained by progressing in PvE content. You must get a drop from a certain boss, or kill that boss X amount of times. Basically any # you deem acceptable as having farmed that boss/tier of content before needing to go to the next one.

 

so if you're on the same tier pvp wise you can't do the same tier in pve unless you've done the pve before? i don't see the point in this other than just doing the previous pve content with pvp gear then proceeding on.

 

Gear obtained in PvE also has only slightly higher stats (relative to previous tier PvE gear), and different set bonuses. These are generally focused towards PvE, while the PvP ones are obviously generally focused toward PvP.

 

There's no gear-inflation. There's no way to use PvP gear in PvE to progress. PvE gear then doesn't overpower PvP, because the stats are equivalent.

 

there is really no gear inflation in the expertise system either if you measure out the stats in equivalence points.

 

i don't see how this system is better than expertise system except they are balancing it from a pvp standpoint 1st then to pve. and it's just using a gated system for pve. it doesn't really stop pvp geared ppl to pveing other than it forces you to do a certain amount of content.

 

again the problem is forcing a player to do something that maybe said person doesn't want to do.

[shaidarlol]

Most people arguing against Expertise have been arguing since its inception as Resilience, or Valor, or whatever else previous games have called it. This isn't a new debate because it's a new game.

 

The complaints disappear because people unhappy with the system probably leave or just stop PvP'ing, not because they just accept it. That's not necessarily a good thing.

 

this is rather subjective don't you think? just because you personally don't like it doesn't mean it's bad either. i can easily say maybe they finally got enough expertise and is preforming to what they think is good and stopped complaining...this can go on forever.

[shaidarlol]

I will hit 50 soon, and PvP'ing (1-49) was quite frankly, awesome. Now, why should I even try at 50? I'll get nonstop destroyed by people with stacked Expertise for month. How is that even remotely fun? At least in PvE, there is some sort of progression, fresh 50 can work their way up, acquired gears and progress through the content. It's fun.

 

Right now, you hit 50 and pretty much get farmed by other players for month, Woohoo? No skill involved at all. Expertise wasn't necessary between 1-49 and it was fine. Like I said, PvP was super fun like this. Why create such unnecessary and BORING grind? PvP at 50 has nothing to do with skill, and that's pretty sad.

 

Also, don't get me started on their RNG Bag system, what a load of crap.

 

pve progression = going in try to kill bosses, 1st boss is easy, drops a piece of gear for the next harder boss. you die to the harder boss and can't kill him. go back next week to get another piece of gear from the 1st boss so you can try to kill the harder boss. and the cycle repeats.

 

pvp progression = going in trying to kill players (some geared like a raid boss), they kill you, in the end you get some type of reward for doing what you did to buy pvp gear. repeat said process until you can buy more gear so you stand a chance vs said geared player.

 

they are different form of progression. there is no other way to deal with it than to just deal with it. both takes time so put in the time, if you don't want to then don't. i don't see the problem with this. if it's not fun for you don't do it...

 

if you believe without expertise it would be different, you are definitely living in a dream world. in that world instead of players with expertise gear, you'll be fighting players with raid gear and believe me they will stomp the crap out of you as well. so what's the next step? complain about raid gear in pvp...and what happens when the new pve tier content comes out and ppl have even more stats? when will this end? never...welcome to mmo

Edited January 24, 2012 by shaidarlol

[Bluemars]

Expertese needs to stay

[Sanwa]

pve progression = going in try to kill bosses, 1st boss is easy, drops a piece of gear for the next harder boss. you die to the harder boss and can't kill him. go back next week to get another piece of gear from the 1st boss so you can try to kill the harder boss. and the cycle repeats.

 

pvp progression = going in trying to kill players (some geared like a raid boss), they kill you, in the end you get some type of reward for doing what you did to buy pvp gear. repeat said process until you can buy more gear so you stand a chance vs said geared player.

 

they are different form of progression. there is no other way to deal with it than to just deal with it. both takes time so put in the time, if you don't want to then don't. i don't see the problem with this. if it's not fun for you don't do it...

 

if you believe without expertise it would be different, you are definitely living in a dream world. in that world instead of players with expertise gear, you'll be fighting players with raid gear and believe me they will stomp the crap out of you as well. so what's the next step? complain about raid gear in pvp...and what happens when the new pve tier content comes out and ppl have even more stats? when will this end? never...welcome to mmo

More common sense. You know what this is just a QQ post so you know what I say more pewpew less QQ. Put in the time like all the other PVP people have and get your gear.

[Razot]

Its a bad stat for the future of PVP..

 

Kids like it though!

[Shardsy]

Its called progression in PvE you hit the boss for 5k and the new guy hit him for 3k so lets remove strength/aim/cunning/willpower

 

The difference in pve progression and pvp progression is that the bottom level of pve does not get harder as time progresses. PvP does get harder to enter into though, because as time progresses more and more people have expertise and thus it is harder for a new pvper to progress than a new pve'r

[shaidarlol]

The difference in pve progression and pvp progression is that the bottom level of pve does not get harder as time progresses. PvP does get harder to enter into though, because as time progresses more and more people have expertise and thus it is harder for a new pvper to progress than a new pve'r

 

that's just a misconception. pvp doesn't get harder or easier it stays the same. in fact it only becomes easier. but if you want to equate how easily you die to how easily you can kill someone then yea i guess it's "harder" in that sense. but the amount of rewards you get is pretty linear as gear progresses.

[Zombifikation]

While I agree that the stat is rather...unnecessary, there's no point to removing it at this stage. It sets PvP gear and pve gear apart for one. Secondly, you will get the gear with it eventually, it might take some time, but the same is true for those who alredy have it, they had to get it too. In my experience with similar stats in mmos, having a couple pieces is all it takes to be useful, especially if you are skilled, and especially considering the current state of pvp, which in tor is not ranked competitively yet. Edited January 24, 2012 by Zombifikation

[Knockerz]

Actually, I don't mind the Expertise stat, but I want it on mods so that I can use orange gear with it.

 

I refuse to pvp in a clown pvp set. The days I would wear whatever so long as it had superior stats are over. I won't repeat that mistake in wow any more. If BW doesn't bother implementing expertise mods, then I won't pvp. This isn't 2002-2004 and I expect mmorpg to have some form of gear customization in terms of looks and not be forced in to same armor sets for pvp or pve.

[Macabrae]

ROFL @ carebears mad that they can't use your Columi gear to dominate in PVP.

 

QFT...this all the way

[Shardsy]

that's just a misconception. pvp doesn't get harder or easier it stays the same. in fact it only becomes easier. but if you want to equate how easily you die to how easily you can kill someone then yea i guess it's "harder" in that sense. but the amount of rewards you get is pretty linear as gear progresses.

 

There is no misconception at all.

 

PvP:

Right now: 5 shots to kill someone if both are wearing noob gear

3 Months Later: new person to pvp in noob gear vs person who has pvped for 3 month and is wearing expertise 6-7 shots to kill.

Result: PvP Got harder

 

PvE:

Right now: noob gear 5 shots to kill a mob in HM flash point

3 Months Later: noob gear, still 5 shots to kill the same mob.

Result: PvE is the same

[Avindra]

I cant agree anymore with Expertise needs too get deleted from the PvP gear. by the simple facts.

 

1. it makes the PvP'ing not about skill but about gear, all you need is too be DPS and have full pvp gear. and you can kill anyone due too the bonus you get from your gear.

 

2. all the pvp players that says its unfair too remove it coruse they worked for it, is kinda BS. they dont loss their gear only that 1 stat. they still have gear that is just as good as raiding gear.. and wen they dont wana do raids then why whine over the raid gear?, the pvp gear stats is fine and good if you like pvping only. i personaly like both pvp and raiding.. but i want a game where pvping is about skills and not gear. any good pvper will allways kill the dude in raid gear with or without the expertise rateing.

 

3. and its a waste of time for us who both like too raid and pvp abit then why do we need 2 sets of full armor on us all the time? to be able too defend our self in pvp..

 

therfor i think Expertise needs too get removed

 

Why is it that every MMO that has PVP has a PVP only stat and yet people want this game to not have it ?

[StealthStalker]

Why is it that every MMO that has PVP has a PVP only stat and yet people want this game to not have it ?

 

That isn't true, so...

[Avindra]

There is no misconception at all.

 

PvP:

Right now: 5 shots to kill someone if both are wearing noob gear

3 Months Later: new person to pvp in noob gear vs person who has pvped for 3 month and is wearing expertise 6-7 shots to kill.

Result: PvP Got harder

 

PvE:

Right now: noob gear 5 shots to kill a mob in HM flash point

3 Months Later: noob gear, still 5 shots to kill the same mob.

Result: PvE is the same

 

Why have you still got noob gear after 3months of PVE ? The gear isnt that hard to get.

[Avindra]

That isn't true, so...

 

Everquest 2 has toughness (PVP stat)

Rift has valor (PVP stat)

Age of Conan has invulnerability (PVP stat)

WoW has resilience (PVP stat)

TOR has Expertise (PVP stat)

 

Unless the mmo is based entirely around PVP then there is a PVP stat to seperate that gear from the PVE gear.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Avindra

[LanceUpercutt]

Everquest 2 has toughness (PVP stat)

Rift has valor (PVP stat)

Age of Conan has invulnerability (PVP stat)

WoW has resilience (PVP stat)

TOR has Expertise (PVP stat)

 

Unless the mmo is based entirely around PVP then there is a PVP stat to seperate that gear from the PVE gear.

 

well that is every mmo