Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Gear grind in WoW? You call 1 week of heroic dungeons for second best raid tier, or 1 week of battlegrounds for second best PvP Tier a grind? Oh dear... WoW is far from its former glory and the thing you call "gear grind"... I MISS those ~40 UBRS runs to get everything from there that i wanted. I enjoy farming / grinds. I'm currently at ~100 Lord Inath kills to get my 9lvl Orange gloves, for the class i want (started yesterday) Its a gear grind no matter hav you slice it... either you have the gear or you dont get to join/win its that simple in WoW gear > skill not the other way around and that makes for some really stupid pvp'ers that never think outside the box. Edited January 25, 2012 by Joms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiggeh Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have 0 Expertise and still own people in PvP seriously get some skill and even as an underdog you can win, which I do oh I'm a Republic Sentinel btw you know that underpowered class on the underpowered team with none of that overpowered expertise stat? Grow some seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I'm a pvper of the old school, cut my teeth in non gear grind based games which had much, much better pvp than this game. I'm in full champion gear and I think a separate pvp stat is a ******* dumb idea. So I'm not sure who the "only people who want expertise gone" are in your post. A gear grind is a developmental cop out, a weaksauce system to keep people chasing a carrot instead of creating actual dynamic pvp systems. So share your great ideas about how it should be set up in SWTOR the gear based game. Of course its weaksouce, remove gear grind and what do you have? *tends to 0* Still waiting for them to actually put something on Ilum, but my hopes are dwindling that anythin (PvP) worthwile is coming *shrug* Propose for PvP gear be same as PvE gear and PvEers will stab you in the eye. With pencil. Edited January 25, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 They have a perfectly ok system in place.. ranks now they should focus on using it for something other than just a title and you have your rewards... the higher the ranks the better stats/abilitys you get access to.... drop the bloody persuit for gear and leave that to the ******* over at blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 While I agree with the expertise stat being a load of bantha doodoo, it is simply too late. Bioware has chosen this path now, you can't really take it away from all the people that have grinded away days of their life to get full BM gear without them wanting to leave. I think it should simply be distributed better on the gear and across levels then all stacked up and the gear should be properly itemised so that a set amount of 'work' yeilds a set amount of reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) So share your great ideas about how it should be set up in SWTOR the gear based game. Of course its weaksouce, remove gear grind and what do you have? *tends to 0* Still waiting for them to actually put something on Ilum, but my hopes are dwindling that anythin (PvP) worthwile is coming *shrug* I shared my ideas in nearly 3 years of making mostly constructive pvp related threads/posts on the pre launch forums, as did many other intelligent mmo gamers, the fact we have been given such a fail pvp system shows how much stock BW places in listening to the community. I don't know if it can be changed in tor, the pvp mechanics needed serious thought in early game development, not just 3 warzones and a tacked on pseudo world pvp system squeezed in a couple of months before launch. Which is why I've stopped playing. Edited January 25, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Its a gear grind no matter hav you slice it... either you have the gear or you dont get to join/win its that simple in WoW gear = skill not the other way around and that makes for some really stupid pvp'ers that never think outside the box. If you did read any of my earlier posts in this thread, you would know that i play about 50-50 (well more PvE as i'm leveling multiple characters instead of focusing on one) and in that other game i played my lasts months 100% PvE. I don't want to sound rude, but your kind of posts are what bad PvP players post. Really. A someone who have not ever seen the true PvP end-game in a gear based system. I say that, and guess why? Because in there, it's Battlemaster's gear versus Battlemaster's gear. And because even in gear based games, like WoW, skill do play a role. I know that because i've beaten Arena Master -team (tittle you got when you had every Arena releated achievement = which means you had the rating for the best tier gear), while i only had second best PvP tier gear (was on alt) and not everyone in my team was even fully PvP geared. That was in WotLK btw. If you don't want gear grinds go play Skyr.. ehm Counter-Strike or most of the FPS games out there. RPG and MMORPG are about progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If Bio had any vision... they would have done away with the idea of a PvP stat... and designed a PvE Stat. A way to make 30 30 30 stats on both gear... with PvE raid gear that adds 10% bonuses too PvE content. That would have been the fix.... PvP stats are the completely wrong way to go about it... No NPC is going to wine that that fully geared raid group is smacking em 10% harder. Actually, I love this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just make Expertise damage reduction only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) They have a perfectly ok system in place.. ranks now they should focus on using it for something other than just a title and you have your rewards... the higher the ranks the better stats/abilitys you get access to.... drop the bloody persuit for gear and leave that to the ******* over at blizzard. Instead of "grinding" for gear, you grind for valor ranks to gain the extra stats?... Eh? The system you describe, is exactly how Arena PvP is in WoW. Instead of Valor Rank, you gain rating, that allows you to buy higher tier PvP gear (= higher stats) when your rating is high enough. edit: In WoW, if you are bad, you cannot get to high ratings (high valor rank), as when you lose, you lose rating (same thing as if you would lose valor points every time you lose a game). In this game, even a bad player can get the best gear, it just takes time. So i don't really understant the WoW bashing... It's easier in here. Edited January 25, 2012 by Viikuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Offcause im a bad pvp'er i havnt really had any fun pvp'ing since DAoC and pre TBC, since then i've been waiting for a chance to get back to some pvp/rvr and heres hoping that BW will make that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Instead of "grinding" for gear, you grind for valor ranks to gain the extra stats?... Eh? The system you describe, is exactly how Arena PvP is in WoW. Instead of Valor Rank, you gain rating, that allows you to buy higher tier PvP gear (= higher stats) when your rating is high enough. its still a persuit for gear... think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovahkien Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I am not sure what side you are supporting, but I want expertise of some kind, but in its current form, Columi gear is superior to Champion gear, so because of that, your statement makes no sense to me. Not really, a couple Columi pieces have slighlty better stats but that staement is just wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Offcause im a bad pvp'er i havnt really had any fun pvp'ing since DAoC and pre TBC, since then i've been waiting for a chance to get back to some pvp/rvr and heres hoping that BW will make that game. Pre-TBC was about time, not skill. If you had the time to play nearly 12+ hours / day for months (based on server and competition) you got your Rank 14 with its gear. And then went around 2-3 shotting the people who didn't have the time. Same as SWTOR system currently. It only takes time (and RNG luck with bags), no skill at all. Only difference being that in pre-tbc, if you stopped playing, you lost your ranks and had to start all over again if you didn't make it to last rank before stopping playing. Current WoW PvP rewards skill, when it comes to getting gear. You keep losing = no high rating = no better gear. Edited January 25, 2012 by Viikuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Pre-TBC was about time, not skill. If you had the time to play nearly 12+ hours / day for months (based on server and competition) you got your Rank 14 with its gear. And then went around 2-3 shotting the people who didn't have the time. Same as SWTOR system currently. It only takes time (and RNG luck with bags), no skill at all. Only difference being that in pre-tbc, if you stopped playing, you lost your ranks and start over again if you didn't make it to last rank before stopping playing. Current WoW PvP rewards skill, when it comes to getting gear. You keep losing = no high rating = no better gear. Well then why dont you go back to WoW.... why do you want to implement something thats already in another game.... go play it and give BW a chance to make another kind of game that rewards time spent not gear gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chungkuo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Whenever one of these threads pops up I need to add my own solution, which to me makes way more sense than trying to come up with some convoluted gear-based math: Abilities do different things when the target is a player. If I stab a mob and it does 3,000 damage maybe it only does 1,500 when I stab a player. If one class has too much pvp burst but needs it for pve, just nerf the damage for player targets. Why is GW2 the only game doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 its still a persuit for gear... think outside the box. So instead of visible gear with extra stats, you grind for invisible gear with extra stats. Now that is outside of the box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why is GW2 the only game doing this? GW1 does this as well. When ability is too powerful in a give build for PvP, it gets it separate version of it for PvP areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joms Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So instead of visible gear with extra stats, you grind for invisible gear with extra stats. Now that is outside of the box... You bloody WoW people and your gear... really will you move on, you want a WoW2 or something or do you want something different, you still need gear and the better the gear the faster you get to stat cap be it pvp gear or pve gear but for the love of god why do people like you need a special pvp stat to compete against other players...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You bloody WoW people and your gear... really will you move on, you want a WoW2 or something or do you want something different, you still need gear and the better the gear the faster you get to stat cap be it pvp gear or pve gear but for the love of god why do people like you need a special pvp stat to compete against other players...... This about sums it up. Just becasue other big games did it, players are comfortable with it and just assume that is the way that it should be. More importantly, the developers think that this this system works and thinks that it what their players want. F ive years from now, if people are still playing, I do not think that we will have seen anything truly innovative with this games PVP. Just a prediction of mine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armethious Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Not really, a couple Columi pieces have slighlty better stats but that staement is just wrong.... Oh really? A couple of pieces? How about most. Fine, here you go. Champion Force-Mystic's Robe +86 Endurance +87 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +44 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Columi Force-Mystic's Robe +98 Endurance +114 Willpower +44 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Winner? Columi Champion Force-Mystic's Gloves +94 Endurance +75 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +53 Critical Rating +48 Surge Rating Columi Force-Mystic's Gloves +116 Endurance +93 Willpower +53 Critical Rating +48 Surge Rating Winner? Columi Champion Force-Mystic's Headgear +94 Endurance +75 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +53 Critical Rating +48 Surge Rating Columi Force-Mystic's Headgear +116 Endurance +93 Willpower +53 Critical Rating +48 Surge Rating Winner? Columi Champion Force-Mystic's Boots +86 Endurance +87 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +44 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Columi Force-Mystic's Boots +98 Endurance +114 Willpower +44 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Winner? Columi yet again Champion Force-Mystic's Lower Robe +94 Endurance +75 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +53 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Columi Force-Mystic's Lower Robe +116 Endurance +93 Willpower +53 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Winner, wait for it..... Columi Champion Stalker's Waistwrap +56 Endurance +77 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +10 Power Columi Stalker's Waistwrap +66 Endurance +97 Willpower +10 Power Another amazing win by Columi Champion Force-Master's Bracers +56 Endurance +77 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +10 Critical Rating Columi Force-Master's Bracers +66 Endurance +97 Willpower +10 Critical Rating Columi wins again Champion Force-Master's Relay +70 Endurance +77 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +41 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Columi Force-Master's Relay +80 Endurance +97 Willpower +41 Power +48 Alacrity Rating Columi wins, wow does it sound like I am repeating myself? Champion Force-Master's Implant +76 Endurance +66 Willpower +46 Expertise Rating +48 Critical Rating +48 Alacrity Rating Columi Force-Master's Implant +93 Endurance +80 Willpower +48 Critical Rating +48 Alacrity Rating Columi wins! I think I have proven my point. Go spread your ignorance elsewhere. Next time you make a statement like that, back it up with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just out of curiosity..... since we all seem to be fighting about this topic for awhile..... i assume to get the attention of our gods (BW) when was the last time a yellow name even showed up in the pvp forums other than to tell us topic was being moved or closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertXP Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I hope when they introduce player rating in march they put in another tier of gear that requires rating to get. And no i don't come from WoW arenas. I just think its a good concept. Skill should equal better gear than grind gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I always liked the approach age of conan took at launch. They placed a separate rating on raid gear (heroic rating) that buffed PvE performance. It made that gear the best possible for PvE, but crap for PvP. Good PvP gear was easily attainable through crafting and small group PvE (and latter PvP). It was easy to get gear that was competative with almost all players, and there was much more difficult to get gear that was more powerful. But a skilled player on a brand new level capped player would usually beat a poor player in the best gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindra Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I always liked the approach age of conan took at launch. They placed a separate rating on raid gear (heroic rating) that buffed PvE performance. It made that gear the best possible for PvE, but crap for PvP. Good PvP gear was easily attainable through crafting and small group PvE (and latter PvP). It was easy to get gear that was competative with almost all players, and there was much more difficult to get gear that was more powerful. But a skilled player on a brand new level capped player would usually beat a poor player in the best gear. Age of Conans PVP died when they introduced Bori Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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