Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Zydrate]

This is me, still waiting for you to say something intelligent.

 

I played EQ, WoW (vanilla)... everything under the sun.

 

My client is just as responsive as anything short of CS.

 

Go through the thread and watch the videos. Your game isn't magically responsive, you're just choosing to ignore the flaws.

 

That's fine, you can be content playing a game with a horrible combat system that takes 1-2 seconds to perform instant actions (if your action even goes off)... the rest of the people who won't tolerate this poor level of quality will continue to be dissatisfied until Bioware fixes it, or until we all get so sick of it we just stop playing.

 

If you don't understand the issue then you clearly haven't gone through the entire thread, so why don't you do something intelligent and read up on something before opening your blowhole on the subject matter.

[Xcore]

OP Updated

 

btw, that CSR response at the end of Thread 3 is ridiculous... if that was real, holy ****. Lack of Bioware Official Communication only further leads to the confusion over something like that.

[Xcore]

Rating, as usual... Round 4... we've had over 150 ratings with an average of 5 stars...

 

1) 4th Incarnation of Thread

2) 4,000+ Replies

3) 400 Pages

4) 200,000+ Views

 

5) 1x Vague BW Response... (Thread 2, Page 123 -- Also in OP)

 

 

I believe the above proves Bioware's inability to run an MMO.

[Zydrate]

Zydrate, you only prove that the worst complainers are the worst douches. I wholeheartedly agreed that there are issues that need fixed. My main point was that it's absurd to start acting like if these issues aren't fixed the game will die, because the issues will be fixed and everything will be fine.

 

If the time it takes for the game to live up to your 100% expectations is too much, then move along. If you have something constructive to say, let the developers know.

 

As the OP states before, this isn't a matter of "something that can be fixed in time." This is a glaring flaw in the game that really does make it basically unplayable. The game should not have been shipped like this. I know I personally submitted numerous feedback reports in beta regarding this exact issue.

 

Things like UI mods, dps meters/combat logs, dual spec... I could honestly care less if those are in the game right now, even though I fully expect them to be added eventually. This isn't about a feature that people want added to an already enjoyable game, this WILL kill the game for a lot of people. I don't expect Bioware to go under-hell, even AoC is still up and running (on a couple servers).

 

And you can call me a douche all you want for being blunt and truthful, but people who sit back with the mentality and attitude of "BW will fix this, just keep shoving $15/mo in their pockets and everything will be fine" will never get anything done. Did you ever stop to think that maybe people are so verbal and outspoken about this because we WANT to like this game, we WANT this game to be great and awesome to play, and we are just sorely disappointed that it was shipped with such a huge flaw making the combat total garbage.

[Larlar]

I wonder if a lot of the combat clunkiness has to do with some of the hard binds that are included in the game by default? Has anyone looked into this?

 

I personally bind almost every key within reach of ctrl - to ctrl, (ctrl + e to a primary attack for example) and I've just read in another thread that there are several default keybindings linked to ctrl that cannot be changed. Is it possible some of this stuff is caused by us flooding the game with unintentional commands as we are hitting certain keys?

 

I know that this would certainly explain a lot of the 'clunkiness' I was feeling. Sadly I cannot check any of this out at present as my game is in a different country.

 

Every single ability I use is keybound so if there really are lots of permanent binds, how can it not affect the smoothness of combat and movement while in combat? Like if you think you are only activating one ability but you are actually activating two thanks to a permanent bind?

 

Might be pie in the sky but thought I would mention it.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Larlar

[Tristik]

~~

On Topic personal experience for reference and information:

 

I never noticed this issue until I started doing some Warzones. I'm assuming it has to do with the fast reactions required, and figuring out that things just aren't going off properly.

 

I have not noticed this during flashpoints as a tank class. And I did not notice them as a healer in a 10 man ops group downing a world boss on Balmorra.

 

Ability Queue set at 0.5

 

System Specs:

 

Res: 1680 x 1050

OS: Win 7 64 bit

CPU: Athlon II x 4 630 @ 2.8Ghz (stock)

GPU: XFX HD 6950 2gig (stock)

Ram: 4 gig OCZ DDR2 @ 1066Mhz (overclocked)

Mobo: Asus M4a785-m

~~

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tristik

[Vexas]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

I wanted to dislike this post, but...

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[jsdcaedus]

Master Shake I appreciate your intelligent rebuttal of my post. We are mostly at a difference of opinion clearly, but I wanted to let you know where you need to think harder.

 

The point I was making where you quoted me secondly was that the trolls are whining about gameplay being inferior to WoW because they are used to that polished gameplay that has been worked on by Blizzard for the better part of a decade. You can't compare WoW's level of smoothness to this game's because it is brand new.

 

Think harder.

 

I fully recognize that WoW is and most likely will always be the pre-emmient MMO out there, I've seen WoW played and know it's mechanics. I won't sit here and say that this game doesn't seem to largely be WoW with lightsabres, but just because it's the same game doesn't mean they could just stick in some Jedi and Sith sprites.

 

To all you people who get all butt-hurt about being called a 'troll', chill out. If you like WoW awesome. If you leave to go back to WoW, awesome. If you want to call me a 'fanboy' because I like Star Wars and I have at least a little faith in the game, that's fine too. Just remember, when you navigate to this page the first thing you see at the top of the page is STAR WARS, derp. And if you're a troll who bought this game and you're mad that it's not every bit as good as WoW, remember that you didn't buy it just because it's another MMO, you bought it because it's Star Wars, and you like that. Double Derp.

[Tinkersw]

I'm willing to bet vital and delicate body parts that all these complainers are people who have spent more time on WoW than time in the company of the opposite sex.

 

Hey Hey now...

[DigitalDreamz]

Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments? I am not saying that I don't like the style of combat in this game, I'm saying it isn't consistent or reliable. YouTube: professional WC3 replays. YouTube: Professional CS:S tournament footage. Watch any super popular WoW PvP video. You'll notice a trend, you know, the fact that all of those games have reliable, responsive ways to interact with the players around you. There is no way to know that my character is going to dodge three times in a row and I won't be able to cast until that is complete. There is no way to know that even though my exact keystrokes were: Tab, 4 I will still leap to the target I had before I pressed tab. What about that takes getting used to, unless you're just getting used to it being broken?

 

--

 

I keep having these conversations with people and they all keep saying, "well go play WoW then." I am going to go play WoW again. In fact, I am going to go play WoW again with 10 million of my friends. The only reason I can even interact with you is the month I got for buying the game. Why not spend that time helping other people not make the mistake I made in investing time in this terribly coded single-player fiasco? Keep bringing up the 1 to 1.5 million subscribers this game has. Keep putting this game right there in the same category as Rift, Aion and EVE online, you know.. where it belongs.

 

You really don't recognize the PvP/combat system in this game as being absolutely terrible. It isn't even like we're being too harsh. The combat in this game is just terribly coded. The game has major balance issues otherwise but there aren't a whole lot of extended threads about how certain things are too powerful because people like the ones propagating this thread are smart enough to know a game will have problems like that on release.

 

It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition. It just doesn't work. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

 

No you will NOT play with 10 million people. More like 3 million in the U.S and Europe:

 

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

 

You know who else has around 3 million local to their country subs?:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion:_The_Tower_of_Eternity

 

But yes the pvp and especially arena is where it's at. That's where the real pros go:

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

 

I agree and I would also like to point out that everyone and their family is heading over to WoW:

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/243465/world_of_warcraft_loses_2_million_subscribers_in_a_year.html

 

You said you play at tournaments? That's actually really cool, WoW is a very hard game to be successful at arena:

 

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/216561-is-wow-dead/

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811293513#1

 

If you've been to tournaments then you've played at MLG. When is the next 3v3 MLG coming? I'd like to watch. It's nice to watch a fun and balanced pvp match:

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/870544-Esports-drops-WoW-because-pvp-is-that-bad/page10

 

You are right this game will go F2P soon enough and we should all pack up and leave:

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/28/world-of-warcraft-goes-free-to-play-until-characters-hit-level-2/

 

Cause I remember when WoW was launched it was mint, seriously best launch ever:

 

http://vnboards.ign.com/WoW_General_Board/b19789/79336783/?70

 

http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/79270344/p1

 

http://www.darthhater.com/devtracker/topic/34084-apparrently-no-one-remembers-wows-launch

 

And also WoW with patch 4.3 has seven years of polish, they're game is perfect and never experienced this ability lag:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657277384

 

Honestly though who cares that SWTOR had over a million sales this past month. WoW completely smashed it remember?:

 

http://www.gamershell.com/companies/blizzard_entertainment/188228.html

 

You said you are leaving. Please do so, keep us informed on how your gaming experience is. You can always make another MTV style music video of you doing BGs with an awesome soundtrack! I hope one day I can be the bazillion people who play WoW.

 

It's where all the cool (blind) people go nowadays.

 

/wave

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zoggel
Edited Quote

[Tinkersw]

Rating, as usual... Round 4... we've had over 150 ratings with an average of 5 stars...

 

1) 4th Incarnation of Thread

2) 4,000+ Replies

3) 400 Pages

4) 200,000+ Views

 

5) 1x Vague BW Response... (Thread 2, Page 123 -- Also in OP)

 

 

I believe the above proves Bioware's inability to run an MMO.

 

Welcome back bud I was hoping you were not gone forever

[DrinkBeeya]

I'm not an avid forum poster, and am doing so now only to register my support for this thread.

 

This issue is, for me, significantly impairing my ability to enjoy the game. I enjoy the rest of the game immensely, but combat as it stands is incredibly frustrating and has become something I avoid whenever possible. This really does need to be prioritized and fixed asap.

 

Input from BioWare is essential. The community needs to know if the developers are even capable of addressing character unresponsiveness.

[HoneyBoy]

I'm not an avid forum poster, and am doing so now only to register my support for this thread.

 

This issue is, for me, significantly impairing my ability to enjoy the game. I enjoy the rest of the game immensely, but combat as it stands is incredibly frustrating and has become something I avoid whenever possible. This really does need to be prioritized and fixed asap.

 

Input from BioWare is essential. The community needs to know if the developers are even capable of addressing character unresponsiveness.

 

It's something where once you see it, it slowly gnaws at you and takes away your enjoyment of the game unfortunately

[jsdcaedus]

Input from BioWare is essential. The community needs to know if the developers are even capable of addressing character unresponsiveness.

 

well said.

[blargness]

No you will NOT play with 10 million people. More like 3 million in the U.S and Europe:

 

...a bunch of stuff...

/wave

 

Why is it so bad that people want to make a game more responsive and accessible? Do you want to drive off subscribers?

 

The game mechanics really aren't too responsive at times and it can be frustrating.

 

Yes, the game has a wonderful quest story arc that goes far above and beyond a lot of single player games out there. I had a blast going from 1-50 and I might do it again on an alt (if I can tolerate Balmorra again...)

 

That said some improvements are in order, chiefly among them is the combat feedback/responsiveness. Is it fine for you? That's perfectly peachy and good for you. It isn't fine for a lot of us who want to continue to subscribe to the game.

 

Stuffing your fingers in your ears and screaming "GO BACK TO WOW" or whatever is 'in vogue' on the forums as of late isn't really addressing a core problem (that even Bioware has acknowledged to some degree via reddit.)

 

I want Bioware to continue to make the game better so more people want to play it.

[Daisycutting]

Shame on you for ruining Lance Henriksons career with this abortion of a game

[Xcore]

Can you give an example of a combo that is consistently an issue?

 

You're going the wrong way about this, you don't comprehend the issue you're trying to solve. You cannot properly troubleshoot this without understanding the issues at hand first.

 

Please re-read Thread 1-3 as well as the videos in the OP.

 

 

I will do you a favor and let you know that this responsiveness isn't related to Servers/Personal Systems or Individual Abilities or Rotations/Combinations. Literally, every single ability and combination is affected by this - as well as every player on every server.

 

Once you wrap your mind around that:

 

It is "highly" noticeable on certain abilities and combinations, less noticeable on others and not at all noticeable on some (though technically it is still there, just masked perfectly).

 

Its a simple (not really "simple) coding flaw, game/combat design flaw, engine limitation or engine coding flaw.

[Corwingeorge]

No you will NOT play with 10 million people. More like 3 million in the U.S and Europe:

 

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

 

You know who else has around 3 million local to their country subs?:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion:_The_Tower_of_Eternity

 

But yes the pvp and especially arena is where it's at. That's where the real pros go:

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

 

I agree and I would also like to point out that everyone and their family is heading over to WoW:

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/243465/world_of_warcraft_loses_2_million_subscribers_in_a_year.html

 

You said you play at tournaments? That's actually really cool, WoW is a very hard game to be successful at arena:

 

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/216561-is-wow-dead/

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811293513#1

 

If you've been to tournaments then you've played at MLG. When is the next 3v3 MLG coming? I'd like to watch. It's nice to watch a fun and balanced pvp match:

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/870544-Esports-drops-WoW-because-pvp-is-that-bad/page10

 

You are right this game will go F2P soon enough and we should all pack up and leave:

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/28/world-of-warcraft-goes-free-to-play-until-characters-hit-level-2/

 

Cause I remember when WoW was launched it was mint, seriously best launch ever:

 

http://vnboards.ign.com/WoW_General_Board/b19789/79336783/?70

 

http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/79270344/p1

 

http://www.darthhater.com/devtracker/topic/34084-apparrently-no-one-remembers-wows-launch

 

And also WoW with patch 4.3 has seven years of polish, they're game is perfect and never experienced this ability lag:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657277384

 

Honestly though who cares that SWTOR had over a million sales this past month. WoW completely smashed it remember?:

 

http://www.gamershell.com/companies/blizzard_entertainment/188228.html

 

You said you are leaving. Please do so, keep us informed on how your gaming experience is. You can always make another MTV style music video of you doing BGs with an awesome soundtrack! I hope one day I can be the bazillion people who play WoW.

 

It's where all the cool (blind) people go nowadays.

 

/wave

 

 

lol this guy

[Nafre]

I had enough today. I really thought I could overlook all the problems in this game with combat and fluid feel but I can't. I feel like I'm spending more energy in this game trying not to hate it than anything else. I wanted this to be a good MMO so bad it was insane but its just an extremely poor mmo. I just can't play it anymore.

 

This game represents the pinnacle of everything that is wrong today with MMO developing. Unlimited funds and it was all put into story and voice acting which now at 50 becomes nothing but a hinderance. Where as the graphics were left aesthetically bland (I don't care what anyone says the graphics in this game are terrible, I even prefer WoW graphics over these and I have them on max settings), and the gameplay, pvp, and features such as LFG were left completely underdeveloped and bad.

 

We as MMO players demand good responsive gameplay, cool new battlegrounds, ARTISTICALLY aesthetically pleasing graphics, and features such as LFG systems to get together to do stuff at the level cap. Thats all we want... Everyone but blizzard has failed us... and blizzard only got 2 out of 4 of those right out of release.

[Xcore]

I also am not getting any delay when playing. If you look at the videos some people are obviously have issues, and it is inappropriate to call them liars. If you would like to be helpful, please put down what server and class you are playing, and if you generally play on peak hours or off.

 

You need to stop.... you have "absolutely" no idea or grasp of the problem, your "troubleshooting" is a complete miss since the very first post. I can appreciate your attempt to "help" but you need to study the issue you're trying to solve first.

 

Please see my previous post to you, you cannot compile a "list" of abilities that fail and start your troubleshooting to a solution. That is a gross misconception of the entire problem.

[Klarick]

1. Did the guy miss that I played RTS and FPS at tournaments?

2. It is upsetting that the game was sold to me in this condition.

3. It just doesn't work.

4. Your character doesn't do what you tell it to do which I feel like is an implied feature.

 

ANSWERS:

1. Oh my thank you for that quote. I may make it apart of my signature. LOL I love it!

2. Life will be very hard for you.

3. Yours doesn't work. Mine works fine.

4. No no. YOUR character doesnt do what YOU want it to do. Mine work perfectly.

 

Look peeps all Im saying is that I do NOT have a delay. When I hit a button my ability fires EVERY SINGLE TIME. You guys are acting like this issue is affecting EVERYONE and it simply is not. I have no idea why it isnt, I just know that it isn't.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Klarick

[Zombull]

ANSWERS:

1. Oh my thank you for that quote. I may make it apart of my signature. LOL I love it!

2. Life will be very hard for you.

3. Yours doesn't work. Mine works fine.

4. No no. YOUR character doesnt do what YOU want it to do. Mine work perfectly.

 

Look peeps all Im saying is that I do NOT have a delay. When I hit a button my ability fires EVERY SINGLE TIME. You guys are acting like this issue is affecting EVERYONE and it simply is not. I have no idea why it isnt, I just know that it isn't.

 

I have to say I'm in the same boat as you. I don't see this ability delay issue at all. The description of the issue states that if an animation hasn't finished it won't let you use another ability. That just isn't the case for me. If I use an ability before the last one's animation is complete the new ability starts right away and the animation is clipped.

 

I don't doubt that the OP and others have issues. I think it is just as important for BW to know that some of us do not. That, too, is information that can help them find the problem and fix it.

[Klarick]

i think it is just as important for bw to know that some of us do not. That, too, is information that can help them find the problem and fix it.

 

bingo!

[Blarpped]

This is an issue I'd like to see improved/solved. It makes PVP unbearable.

[Zydrate]

I have to say I'm in the same boat as you. I don't see this ability delay issue at all. The description of the issue states that if an animation hasn't finished it won't let you use another ability. That just isn't the case for me. If I use an ability before the last one's animation is complete the new ability starts right away and the animation is clipped.

 

I don't doubt that the OP and others have issues. I think it is just as important for BW to know that some of us do not. That, too, is information that can help them find the problem and fix it.

 

 

Video or this isn't happening. Countless videos have been posted showing the horrible ability lag in the combat system. Where is your video of seamless, instantly-responsive combat?

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zydrate